WC: Roster Talk '11 – USA

[afrobomber11]

I wonder if Shattenkirk would be sent to Peoria or not, assuming the Rivermen make the playoffs. If not, and before anyone has been named, it's probably a bit too early to pencil him in as a target just because theoretically all available targets are still possibilities.

i dont think he was on the clear day list

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Oshie/Backes would be a solid start!

 

[HockeyTownUSA]

Ryan Shannon from the Senators just announced that he will play for Team USA in the World Championships, on Team 1200.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Ryan Shannon from the Senators just announced that he will play for Team USA in the World Championships, on Team 1200.

And so it starts.....Gee whiz. Hopefully he brings along some teammates (namely Craig Anderson). While it would be nice for the U.S. brass to hold out for a bit longer, a guy like Shannon has had a nice last third of the year for the Sens in an expanded role. He should be okay.

 

[William H Bonney]

And so it starts.....Gee whiz. Hopefully he brings along some teammates (namely Craig Anderson). While it would be nice for the U.S. brass to hold out for a bit longer, a guy like Shannon has had a nice last third of the year for the Sens in an expanded role. He should be okay.

Shannon is a decent start. I just don't see the point on starting with 4th line players at the beginning of the process. Oh well. Shannon's better than a lot of other guys it could have been, like a Ryan Carter.

 

[HockeyTownUSA]

Shannon is a decent start. I just don't see the point on starting with 4th line players at the beginning of the process. Oh well. Shannon's better than a lot of other guys it could have been, like a Ryan Carter.

He's not playing 4th line now, getting almost 20 min a game, and producing. Two years ago when he played on Team USA he did not play the 4th line either I don't believe. He outplayed Foligno I think in terms of goals scored and TOI.

Bigger ice surface is a good thing for a guy like Shannon who can cover a lot of ground with his speed.

 

[William H Bonney]

He's not playing 4th line now, getting almost 20 min a game, and producing. Two years ago when he played on Team USA he did not play the 4th line either I don't believe. He outplayed Foligno I think in terms of goals scored and TOI.

Bigger ice surface is a good thing for a guy like Shannon who can cover a lot of ground with his speed.

Sorry, I meant it in terms of a projected World Championship lineup and not for the Sens. If we're looking to compete for the Gold, realistically Shannon would be a fringe 3rd/4th liner on the club. I actually liked him at the 2009 tournament. He had the 7th highest TOI/G for forwards, so essentially around a 3rd liner. I like Shannon's game. He's like a poor man's Ryan Callahan without the hitting and the same offensive upside.

Just a comment, which could prove to be ill-advised given others may have already accepted and we just don't know, that we always seem to build our teams backwards. We get bottom line guys for the tournament and then slowly bump them up as we get even more bottom line guys.

In just terms of Shannon being chosen for the role I envision I'm ecstatic they chose him over a Ryan Carter, etc.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I like Ryan Shannon, works his ass off every night!

 

[William H Bonney]

Al Montoya signed a 1-year deal today with the Islanders taking away that potential hurdle on him participating if asked.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I saw a note on the Panthers board that Clemmensen is unlikely to play (if asked) due to the impending birth of his child.

 

[William H Bonney]

Parise already informed Team USA that he won't participate in the tournament. He said his impending free agency impacted his decision. Sucks but I understand his decision.

Get well Zach!

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nick Foligno has been asked to play but is undecided: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/TampaBay/2011/03/29/17802601.html

 

[Rabid Ranger]

No Craig Anderson (his wife is due): http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...world+hockey+championships/4530214/story.html

 

[William H Bonney]

No Craig Anderson (his wife is due): http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...world+hockey+championships/4530214/story.html

Ouch. Here we go again.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Ouch. Here we go again.

Yeah, goaltending might be slim pickings. I would guess they would ask Conklin and Montoya for sure. Might not be too bad as long as there is a solid d.

 

[William H Bonney]

Yeah, goaltending might be slim pickings. I would guess they would ask Conklin and Montoya for sure. Might not be too bad as long as there is a solid d.

Yeah. With Anderson and Clemmer both out, and no way DiPietro participates given his injury troubles, those are our only targets right now. They'd both make sense though. Montoya is very talented, playing well, and probably is as confident as he's been since first joining the AHL a few years back. Conklin would be a good veteran presence that's had success in this tournament. There's also Robert Esche as well.

The worst part is none of the other bubble teams have any prospects so if more than one of Montoya/Conklin/Esche say no, we're in deep trouble. We'd have to rely on a first round exit goalie and Tim Thomas is the only one I'd be confident in accepting an offer.

 

[Mathradio]

Yeah. With Anderson and Clemmer both out, and no way DiPietro participates given his injury troubles, those are our only targets right now. They'd both make sense though. Montoya is very talented, playing well, and probably is as confident as he's been since first joining the AHL a few years back. Conklin would be a good veteran presence that's had success in this tournament. There's also Robert Esche as well.

The worst part is none of the other bubble teams have any prospects so if more than one of Montoya/Conklin/Esche say no, we're in deep trouble. We'd have to rely on a first round exit goalie and Tim Thomas is the only one I'd be confident in accepting an offer.

In which case goaltending is going to haunt Team USA. And, if the USA are relegated this season around (like 1983) maybe Hockey USA will (hopefully!) no longer treat the WCs as a second-tier competition, or even a Mickey Mouse tournament.

 

[cagney]

In which case goaltending is going to haunt Team USA. And, if the USA are relegated this season around (like 1983) maybe Hockey USA will (hopefully!) no longer treat the WCs as a second-tier competition, or even a Mickey Mouse tournament.

I'm pretty sure USA Hockey takes this tournament seriously. It's the players that really don't. What USA Hockey has to do is find a way to be successful despite not getting all the players they want. Just how they can do that is up for debate.

 

[therealdeal]

In which case goaltending is going to haunt Team USA. And, if the USA are relegated this season around (like 1983) maybe Hockey USA will (hopefully!) no longer treat the WCs as a second-tier competition, or even a Mickey Mouse tournament.

Yeah as the guy above me said, I dont' think you can blame the organization, what more do you expect from them? They're inviting all the players they can, but if the players can't go, or won't go, then the organization is **** out of luck as they say.

 

[afrobomber11]

Just how they can do that is up for debate.

incentives?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

incentives?

Like what-money? That's not going to happen. The bottomline is the WC's are not on the radar at any point in time for most American NHL players. Add in a fairly shallow pool when it comes to elite players-especially goaltending, and things get dicey around this time of year.

 

[William H Bonney]

incentives?

Depends on the incentive. Paying them to go? Nah. We need to change the culture of the tournament within the American hockey community going forward. Hopefully the NTDP will help that as quite a few of the American NHLers have grown up within the USA Hockey national team system. American hockey players just don't grow up with this tournament. They don't grow up watching it. They don't grow up hearing about it. They don't grow up following it. They don't dream of playing in it. Until recently this tournament didn't get much more than small tidbits released, typically either AP press releases or team bloggers mentioning in passing how their player may be doing.

So with that you get American players turning this tournament down without even thinking twice. Granted, sometimes it's understandable (ex: Parise this year trying to come back from a knee injury as an impending RFA). A lot of times it's just because they don't value the tournament enough to put off getting their summer started or doing other things, like R.J. Umberger last year passing so he could take a class or two at Ohio St. It's almost certain that American players won't participate if they're without a contract and injured in any fashion, even small nagging injuries. You don't have those hurdles for the European players that grow up dreaming of playing in this tournament. As such, they'll play injured and play before signing a new contract, etc.

Canada faces similar issues but just don't nearly to the degree USA Hockey does for a few reasons. The obvious, hockey is just that much more popular and ingrained in Canadian culture. It means more. The tournament gets a lot more exposure in Canada and the country cares a lot more. Hockey Canada can use this tournament as a "tryout" phase for players if they want to keep in line for potential Olympic/World Cup teams. They have the depth to tell a player or two to piss off if they don't want to bother representing their country. Brian Burke tried to use this "threat" the year before the Olympics and players still turned down their offers and we don't have the depth to hold that against them. To go along with the depth, Canada can handle a bunch of declined offers more so than any other country and still send a great team.

There's a few things I think need to happen. One is taking place this year and that's increased exposure of the tournament with Versus airing all the USA games. It's going to increase the accountability. Now if we perform like we did last year it may not matter as they're going to have a tough time convincing Versus to continually air the tournament going forward if that happens. Another thing is a breakthrough performance, such as winning the Gold or at least making it to the championship game. It'll attract attention, not only from the hockey community but from other American players. We've missed out on a couple medals in the last few years. We need to string together some success in spite of not having the rosters we'd necessarily like. Another is just continue to grow the sport and produce more hockey players and increase our depth and player pool. Lastly, and it's tough to say here because I don't know the inner workings of the recruitment process but if we have another down roster again, I'd say we need to reevaluate the way we're targeting, recruiting, and selecting our team. Just because the first few offers are declined doesn't necessarily mean we need to start scooping up the Ryan Carters, Colin Stuarts, and Christian Hansons of the world just to put warm bodies in those slots. I don't think that helps further recruitment. Yes, if you offer a guy and he sees the Carters, Hansons, and Stuarts of the world there, he may see an opportunity for more playing time than expected. But the guys that go want to win, too, and you're not going to do it with that caliber of player infesting your lineup. I'd much prefer to see them target some European based players at first if they're getting declined offers over fringe NHL scrubs. Along with that, we seem to fill up our roster too quickly. I'd much rather take 3 full lines and 2 goalies with the potential to add some good players down the line than fill those extra spots with nobodies that will barely play and won't contribute. We may have to take that risk of not fielding a completely full team in the hopes of getting some better talent after the playoffs start.

 

[therealdeal]

Depends on the incentive. Paying them to go? Nah. We need to change the culture of the tournament within the American hockey community going forward. Hopefully the NTDP will help that as quite a few of the American NHLers have grown up within the USA Hockey national team system. American hockey players just don't grow up with this tournament. They don't grow up watching it. They don't grow up hearing about it. They don't grow up following it. They don't dream of playing in it. Until recently this tournament didn't get much more than small tidbits released, typically either AP press releases or team bloggers mentioning in passing how their player may be doing.

So with that you get American players turning this tournament down without even thinking twice. Granted, sometimes it's understandable (ex: Parise this year trying to come back from a knee injury as an impending RFA). A lot of times it's just because they don't value the tournament enough to put off getting their summer started or doing other things, like R.J. Umberger last year passing so he could take a class or two at Ohio St. It's almost certain that American players won't participate if they're without a contract and injured in any fashion, even small nagging injuries. You don't have those hurdles for the European players that grow up dreaming of playing in this tournament. As such, they'll play injured and play before signing a new contract, etc.

Canada faces similar issues but just don't nearly to the degree USA Hockey does for a few reasons. The obvious, hockey is just that much more popular and ingrained in Canadian culture. It means more. The tournament gets a lot more exposure in Canada and the country cares a lot more. Hockey Canada can use this tournament as a "tryout" phase for players if they want to keep in line for potential Olympic/World Cup teams. They have the depth to tell a player or two to piss off if they don't want to bother representing their country. Brian Burke tried to use this "threat" the year before the Olympics and players still turned down their offers and we don't have the depth to hold that against them. To go along with the depth, Canada can handle a bunch of declined offers more so than any other country and still send a great team.

There's a few things I think need to happen. One is taking place this year and that's increased exposure of the tournament with Versus airing all the USA games. It's going to increase the accountability. Now if we perform like we did last year it may not matter as they're going to have a tough time convincing Versus to continually air the tournament going forward if that happens. Another thing is a breakthrough performance, such as winning the Gold or at least making it to the championship game. It'll attract attention, not only from the hockey community but from other American players. We've missed out on a couple medals in the last few years. We need to string together some success in spite of not having the rosters we'd necessarily like. Another is just continue to grow the sport and produce more hockey players and increase our depth and player pool. Lastly, and it's tough to say here because I don't know the inner workings of the recruitment process but if we have another down roster again, I'd say we need to reevaluate the way we're targeting, recruiting, and selecting our team. Just because the first few offers are declined doesn't necessarily mean we need to start scooping up the Ryan Carters, Colin Stuarts, and Christian Hansons of the world just to put warm bodies in those slots. I don't think that helps further recruitment. Yes, if you offer a guy and he sees the Carters, Hansons, and Stuarts of the world there, he may see an opportunity for more playing time than expected. But the guys that go want to win, too, and you're not going to do it with that caliber of player infesting your lineup. I'd much prefer to see them target some European based players at first if they're getting declined offers over fringe NHL scrubs. Along with that, we seem to fill up our roster too quickly. I'd much rather take 3 full lines and 2 goalies with the potential to add some good players down the line than fill those extra spots with nobodies that will barely play and won't contribute. We may have to take that risk of not fielding a completely full team in the hopes of getting some better talent after the playoffs start.

Well thought out post, agree on everything.

 

[PaulieVegas]

Brian Burke tried to use this "threat" the year before the Olympics and players still turned down their offers and we don't have the depth to hold that against them. To go along with the depth, Canada can handle a bunch of declined offers more so than any other country and still send a great team.

At least to his credit, when Burke did have the luxury of following up on the threat, he did. Tim Connolly's a great example. He was healthy and said no to an invite that year, and next thing you know he didn't even get invited to Olympic orientation camp. But we're developing a deeper and deeper talent pool, so pretty soon that threat will have more teeth.

I agree with the posts saying USA jumps the gun too quickly to name a team. Especially last year, it seemed like they just sent invites to the first 20 Americans who missed the playoffs regardless of their ability (and sadly, most of them said yes). Taylor Chorney? Ryan Carter? Do you get bonus points for being the first to fill your roster or something? I don't get it.

Goaltending will be tough this year, thank god Montoya is finally playing well. No Anderson, no Clemmer, and all our big 4 (Miller, Thomas, Quick, Howard) made the playoffs. Conklin said no last year for no reason, so unless he's had a revelation he won't go. DiPietro shouldn't play even if he wants to. Esche sucks but might be our best backup option. I see calls for Stalock, which is fine. What about Ben Bishop? He got a few starts this year, and he made the trip last year. Maybe Vancouver will get bounced early and Cory Schneider can play. But I guess the way Montoya has played this season, I feel pretty comfortable having him there.

If I was either Quick or Howard and my team got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, I'd be on the first flight to Slovakia. As it stands now those two will be competing neck-and-neck for the top backup spot in Sochi (assuming Miller is still #1 and Thomas is too old), so it'd be good to stay in the USA brass' good graces.

If there's one guy who absolutely needs to accept an invitation, it's Erik Johnson. He's been passed by Yandle and Byfuglien on the USA depthchart, and there's a lot of good young d-men (Fowler, Carlson, Shattenkirk) developing faster than he ever has. He needs to stay on the USA brass' good side, because if there was an Olympic team being picked right now, I'm not sure he'd be on it.

I wonder if they'll invite Komisarek.

 

[William H Bonney]

At least to his credit, when Burke did have the luxury of following up on the threat, he did. Tim Connolly's a great example. He was healthy and said no to an invite that year, and next thing you know he didn't even get invited to Olympic orientation camp. But we're developing a deeper and deeper talent pool, so pretty soon that threat will have more teeth.

Connolly didn't participate that year because he had been playing with a torn labrum in his hip and had surgery that off-season. He had a legitimate reason for declining. I don't think he was blacklisted by Burke and co. for it, I just don't think they were big fans of his game. They preferred Stastny in the offensive center role, Kesler and Pavelski in the two-way roles, and Drury as the shutdown guy. Connolly just fell in with a guy like Gomez. He had to nab one of the Top 2 spots or he wouldn't be there. Neither guy deserved to be there either.

Goaltending will be tough this year, thank god Montoya is finally playing well. No Anderson, no Clemmer, and all our big 4 (Miller, Thomas, Quick, Howard) made the playoffs. Conklin said no last year for no reason, so unless he's had a revelation he won't go. DiPietro shouldn't play even if he wants to. Esche sucks but might be our best backup option. I see calls for Stalock, which is fine. What about Ben Bishop? He got a few starts this year, and he made the trip last year. Maybe Vancouver will get bounced early and Cory Schneider can play. But I guess the way Montoya has played this season, I feel pretty comfortable having him there.

If I was either Quick or Howard and my team got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, I'd be on the first flight to Slovakia. As it stands now those two will be competing neck-and-neck for the top backup spot in Sochi (assuming Miller is still #1 and Thomas is too old), so it'd be good to stay in the USA brass' good graces.

Alex Stalock is injured and out for the year. Ben Bishop is back in the AHL and potentially in the playoffs with Peoria. He'd be nothing but a #3 option though and shouldn't be offered unless every other option says no.

There's some good options in the playoff teams but it just depends on who's available. I think Thomas would accept and Schneider would as well. I think Miller would say no since he plays so much for Buffalo. Quick would be 50/50 but I think he'd stay home since he has a pretty young family. I could see Howard accepting. The biggest thing those if any of them are actually available in time. Hopefully we hold at least 1 goalie spot open regardless and take an "emergency" goalie for practice purposes if need be and try to lock up 2 of Montoya/Esche/Conklin.

If there's one guy who absolutely needs to accept an invitation, it's Erik Johnson. He's been passed by Yandle and Byfuglien on the USA depthchart, and there's a lot of good young d-men (Fowler, Carlson, Shattenkirk) developing faster than he ever has. He needs to stay on the USA brass' good side, because if there was an Olympic team being picked right now, I'm not sure he'd be on it.

I wonder if they'll invite Komisarek.

Yeah, Erik Johnson definitely needs to accept an invite. His confidence just looks like it's down in the dumps. He's been through a lot in a short time in his career though and this tournament could be the boost and revitalization he needs to get going again.