Roster Speculation Pt. 18
- Thread starter tsujimoto74
- Start date
- Status
Asymmetric Solution
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2018
- 5,762
- 3,790
Asymmetric Solution
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2018
- 5,762
- 3,790
Yeah, people need to stop comparing Cozens to Alex Nylander and Casey Mittlestadt. I would have taken Cozens 4 OA last year (go back and check my posts) and think his floor is top 6 RW. His ceiling is Brayden Point/Matt Barzal with size
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
- 12,302
- 17,943
I just like the confidence of this. Dunno if accurate, don’t care- dude developing well for once, all the tools for 2c- sure. He’s a sure thing until he proves otherwise because goddammit I need somethin
I absolutely love Danault, he would be a perfect get.
But I just don't see how Montreal trades him. It makes so much more sense to trade Domi for them unless Danault had made it crystal clear that he won't be re-signing there.
sabresEH
Registered User
Just came here to post about Domi. However I read in the Danault thread that he told management he wasn't happy being deployed as a 3C. I'm sure they can move Domi and talk Danault off the ledge.
In the Domi speculation thread, someone mentioned that Domi and Poehling have both removed, member of MTL Canadiens(or something along those lines) from their bios on social media. Is there any way we can get both of them from MTL in a trade?
The Red Helmet
Registered User
- Dec 19, 2007
- 2,309
- 1,331
I like patting myself on the back for being early on Mittelstadt sucking and I am also just as confident at Cozens being at least very good.
He might be. But, good teams don't assume a 19 year old will be a top 6 forward for them. You go with proven NHL talent and leave lanes for young players to grow into and earn ice time.
If we go into camp with only 5 top 6 forwards because we assume Cozens will be the sixth, we deserve to miss the playoffs for the 10th straight year.
Given our prospect pool, I'm leaving one top 9 forward spot, probably RW given our lack of depth there, open for one of Thompson/Cozens/Mittelstadt to earn.
For some reason people have gotten used to just putting slotting 19 year olds into lineups because we've been bad for so long.
How many 19 year olds on the Bruins roster? The lightning? St Louis? Las Vegas?
If Cozens comes to camp and earns a spot, great.
But, for the love of everything that is holy, let's put together a good enough forward group it's not a necessity.
I haven't closely watched Domi play recently, how has he been?
To be honest, the more I think about it the more it seems realistic that Danault could ask for a trade this offseason.
He's 27 and been on pretty team friendly contracts up until this point. This next contract is going to be the big one of his career, and he's going to want to be in a position to maximize his value and prove he can be a stud 2-way top 6 center.
If he is getting the feeling that Montreal plans on relegating him to a 3rd line defensive role behind Suzuki and KK, he has every reason to be unhappy with that situation and make his voice heard. The question then would be if Bergevin accommodates such a request.
Hypothetical: Danault and Domi to Buffalo for...... (fill in the blank)
I would start with Risto or Montour, Mitts, 2021 1st (protected)
Domi is a RFA. Danault has 1 year left until UFA. He just came out in the media and said he is upset he was moved to 3rd line centre in the playoffs behind KK and Suzuki. Danault is the 2way Centre that Krueger loves to deploy. Domi wants to play centre but put him on a line at LW with Eichel and Reinhart and I’m sure he would be happy.
My initial thought is that trading both of them would be excessive for both teams. Montreal has center depth now, but taking away both of them leaves that team very, very inexperienced down the middle. And we really need a 2C, but not really another top 6 LW.
For an unsigned Danault, I'm not sure what combination of assets would make the most sense. 8OA seems a shade rich, but I'm not sure they bite with a Montour or Mitts as the centerpiece.
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
- 12,302
- 17,943
Right, we’re clearly not those teams though and there’s clearly no magic way to get to that point. To my mind we’re just trying to cobble together a decent enough lineup to make playoffs, so that Cozens and co. Can be those dudes when they’re 22, 23. It’s not like anyone is saying we should hope Cozens at 2c gets us to the cup immediately, far from it- I agree it’d be a mistake entering the season with that 2c slot an unknown, im just saying we should also plan for our best-looking prospect to succeed, as well- and bringing in an overpriced Monahan doesn’t vibe with that, imo.
joshjull
Registered User
Thats not the depth chart. Thats seems to be your preference or how you view things. Its certainly not how Krueger viewed things nor accounts for how various players can be used.
VO or Skinner/Jack/Sam
Skinner or VO/Mojo/XXX
YYY/YYY/Okposo
ZZZ/ZZZ/ZZZ
Mojo is still the 2nd line center on the depth chart until he’s replaced. If that happens he can play either wing, not just LW. I’d be very surprised if he leaves the top 6.
Kahun is a wild card. He plays both wings but more importantly Kruger feels he can be a good fit at center in this system. We probably would have seen it if the season wasn’t cut short. He may actually have a shot at 3rd line center/secondary scoring line center. Who knows but Krueger is a huge fan of his. He’s not likely to be a 4th line LW.
I know this will pain you but Krueger absolutely loves Risto. He viewed as the top RHD or at worst top 4. Certainly not bottom pairing. Nor is McCabe viewed as a bottom pairing/7th dman. He was the primary matchup guy all season long paired with Risto then Joker.
The possible spots available for guys like Tage, Cozens, Mitts, etc will probably look different than you laid out with your depth chart.
Last edited:
I mean, depth chart rarely reflects the actual lines as the season takes shape.
For all of Ralph's line weirdness, I think it's pretty safe to say that a big part of why Mojo is a center is because we pretty much nothing else. It certainly isn't that he excelled at the center spot or his deployments. I'm reasonably sure if given two centers this offseason, one who is a more offensively gifted and not great on defense and one who is an excellent two way center, Ralph can figure it out. He was asked to arrange the pickles on a shit sandwich of a forward group. I disagree with some of his deployments and usage, but overall I think if we add two centers, he's not going to go Eichel-Mojo-Kahun down the middle to spite Adams.
When I'm putting my depth charts available, I try to spot the players where they would play on a good team, not necessarily where they'd be line wise. The only real exception i make is skinner, because I think it's pretty obvious Krueger wants to build a 2nd line around him.
RHD is probably a different subject. I don't have a huge issue with keeping or moving Risto, I just want RHD depth flipped to fill the gaping holes at forward. Whether that's Risto, Montour, or Miller, I don't really care. Just use your deployments to shield Risto a bit if you can. High Ozone starts + PP time (at the point, not in front of the net please) is really where he excels. Tough D-zone assignments, not so much.
joshjull
Registered User
Of course you don’t think so. You want to acquire Monahan.
joshjull
Registered User
I don’t think you understand what a depth chart is. Which would explain your very confusing response to my post.
A depth chart is just listing the pecking order of your roster. Its not putting players were your think they would be on a “good” team nor putting them where you wish they would be.
When you list our centers Mojo comes in as the 2C. My listing him there is nothing more than that and isn’t me advocating for him to be there. I‘m well aware of why he’s there but that doesn’t matter or change the fact that he’s the 2C. The other depth chart point about Mojo is he plays RW as well. There is no way to know which wing he ends up on if and when he gets replaced at 2C. I was taking issue with your assuming he goes to LW on the depth chart when that happens.
As for Kahun, my point there was basically I have no idea where he belongs on the depth chart. He plays both wings and Krueger likes the idea of him at center. He could end up in any of the three positions. I was again taking issue with your assumption he’s going to be a LW.
It was quite bizarre when you argued Krueger wouldn’t stick with a center spine of Jack/Mojo/Kahun if we acquired 2 centers. I didn’t advocate that should be our center spine next season. Let alone that it would remain our center spine even if we acquired 2 centers. I was very confused and amused by this
Again I wasn’t arguing for any players to be in certain spots. Its commenting on our defensive depth chart. Which looks like the following....
Dahlin/Risto
McCabe/Montour
XXX/Joker
XXX/Miller
Not pairing ideas but the depth chart.
On a non depth chart note.. Risto has never played in the role you suggest for him 5v5 (high OZS% deployments). Not sure why you’re suggesting its the type of role he excels in. But I agree with you 100% about his what his PP usage should be. He was also very good this season in one of the toughest defensive deployments in the NHL paired with McCabe. But struggled in a more balanced role playing with Montour.
Last edited:
Team Cozens
Registered User
Elias Pettersson shouldn’t have been either.
You honestly don’t know. I like Cozens size, speed and more importantly his compete level. He is also going to benefit from an extra 4/5 months of training.
Sabre Dance
Make Hockey Fun Again
- Jul 27, 2006
- 12,456
- 2,243
Pettersson was a pro. Cozens shouldn't be talked about until camp. He's obviously got everything to be a top 6 forward next year or the year after but he shouldn't be in the discussion for top 6 right now.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I wouldn't touch Turris with Chara's stick. Turris is 5 years older than Monahan, he is only $375k cheaper against the cap, and he's under contract for another year which puts him into his mid-30s. And his offensive production is nowhere near Monahan.
Over the past two season, Turris has played in 117 games and had 54 points. That is a 38 point per 82 games pace. All for the low, low price of $6M against the cap. Turris is Okposo at center.
Over the past two seasons, Monahan has played in 148 games and had 130 points. That is a 72 point per 82 games pace.
Turris gets you roughly 50% of the production of Monahan and not 90%. And while Monahan's production likely dips in Buffalo, I doubt Turris' improves in Buffalo and as he ages.
I am not all in on the Monahan idea. But, if the only choice up for debate is trading for Monahan or trading for Turris, I would trade for Monahan unless what the Sabres are giving up in the two deals is stupid. For instance, if it's Okposo for Turris vs Reinhart, Montour, and Mitts for Monahan, then I might consider trading for Turris.
The Max Domi idea is interesting.
If the Canadiens trade Max Domi, what should they seek in return?
There are some interesting trade targets in there for Domi. That author seems to think that if the Habs move on from Domi, it is likely to be a change of scenery deal for an NHLer. Gaudreau is a name that they threw out there.
So, it would seem that the Sabres parallel is Reinhart for Domi. And I wouldn't make that deal, personally.
Even 8OV for Domi is something that I would have to think a lot about.
The really fun conversation about the center position is whether to target an offensive guy like Monhan/Domi or more of a two way guy like Cirelli/Danault.
Last edited:
TheDawnOfANewTage
Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
- Dec 17, 2018
- 12,302
- 17,943
Not a Turris fan myself, but the thinking is basically that ya, the value difference would be enough where it’d make sense to pursue him for virtually nothing instead of likely overpaying for Monahan. As to production, that’s some conjecture on my part, but I worry Monahan would be Vesey 2.0 or somethin- like we’re looking at his past numbers in the best possible situation and assuming they’d carry over to Buffalo, when really it could end up an expensive, poor fit. Whereas Turris ended up in kinda a bad situation, his flaws are well documented.. but if he could be had for nothing and could be a decent 2c to help Skinner that’d be a huge service we paid very little for. All depends on cap and salary retention in that case, but after years of seeing guys brought in only to decline in Buffalo- I’d rather find a guy on the outs who seems a good fit, and with Turris- he has the offensive skill to play 2c. He’d frustrate me, I’m sure, but if he could get 45+ points feeding Skinner.. this all also assumes he really is healthy again, but that’s basically what Preds fans were saying- hurt last year, misused this year. I used to hate the idea of Turris myself, but based on need and value it could make sense.
Anyways
All that said, I most like the 1st for Domi proposal. We gotta return to relevance before Eichel goes to Boston and nothing is good ever again- that pick is like a 70% chance at an NHLer in 3 years, just take the dude who can help now, if that trade is an option.
struckbyaparkedcar
Guilty of Being Right
Cozens should be in the top six convo as a rotational RW when he’s in-form, but should not be asked to center a player who makes him cover multiple positions defensively (Kane/Eichel, Skinner/Mittelstadt) unless he’s shattering expectations.
Djp
Registered User
The problem with Turris is 5 yrs and his age. I dont care how cheap it is to acquire him, Im not taking that cap hit in year 4 or 5.
Domi is 2 yrs from UFA. Im not trading a top 12 pick for that.I look at Domi as a low bar for a top 10 pick. Doing an NHL trade for him is something different.
Same with Monahan. Im not trading 8OA for Monahan.
Over recent time I dont recall any top 10 pick or former top 10 pick not to dress in the NHL get traded for a 26 yr old or older player, The only time I can see it justified is if you are trading for someone 24 or younger who would be a a 1C/1D/
a better low price player Id target is Wennberg with about $1.0M-$1.4M retained by Columbus. which puts him at $3.5M-$3.9M in Buffalo. He would do very well centering Skinner and Reinhart. He is strong on D so he can transition to a pure checking line role later.
- Status
