Roster Speculation part XXIV

[Zip15]

Further to my point in the GBU that playing Gorges on the 3rd pairing is not going to turn things around for him. Dude is an anchor on everyone - he makes everyone he plays with worse. And don't even tell me he's passing the eye test, either. (Also, note Risto when away from Gorges.)

 

[brian_griffin]

Realistically, how many NHL teams have that kind of quality depth on D?

It's has to be single digits.

Anaheim is an outlier.

Not necessarily a D-depth comment, but I thought the Jets D, even without Myers the other night, does a really good job of running the cycle up top through their D-men, whether 5v5 or PP. They seem to be very skilled at quick puck movement and shot generation - to the point I wish BUF could do it like that - and I wouldn't claim the Sabres were necessarily collapsing down to enable WPG to do it.

 

[Sabretooth]

Further to my point in the GBU that playing Gorges on the 3rd pairing is not going to turn things around for him. Dude is an anchor on everyone - he makes everyone he plays with worse. And don't even tell me he's passing the eye test, either. (Also, note Risto when away from Gorges.)

I think that data should be taken with a huge grain of salt. It's not very clear what data is being used to generate those wowy numbers. hockeyviz doesn't seem to be very transparent in that regard, and I kept running into pay walls just to access things like game data.

Looking at hockeyanalysis or puckalytics (same thing), and looking at 5v5 data, of Gorges 97:31 TOI, he spent:

87:31 with Risto
4:43 with Franson
2:45 with kulikov
2:37 with bogosian
1:05 with McCabe

That pretty much tells you right there that wowy's are not going to be very meaningful.

The first chart in particular I'm struggling to find exactly what the relationship between "player without 4" and "4 without player" is supposed to be, especially without the "player with 4" data point to compare to. Like, it doesn't at all say that gorges makes players worse, because it doesn't even have the data of the players with gorges. It's super misleading. Its not blue boxes are "player with gorges" and red boxes are "player without gorges". All it is basically showing is that Gorges has worse shots for and shots against than everyone else, but that is almost entirely based on gorges playing top pairing with risto, because gorges has no significant 5v5 time with anyone else. It's not directly indicative of how gorges would perform given a different role with a different partner for significant time.

And the Risto wowy gorges I can't replicate where the TOI numbers are coming from. The other site lists Gorges as 10:00 without risto at 5v5 and risto as 16:42 without gorges at 5v5. This person has 36:06 for Risto without Gorges, but isn't clear at all what situations those are. In any case, it's still silly because gorges doesn't have a significant role away from Risto to make the Gorges without Risto, and to a lesser extent, Risto without gorges, meaningful in any way.


This is not a defense of Gorges in any way. I mean, the stats for him aren't pretty right now, but this is a bad use of those stats in meaningless and misleading ways.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Rangers put 22 yo D Calle Anderson on waivers. Should we be interested? He's big and mobile.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Jim Bob]

Rangers put 22 yo D Calle Anderson on waivers. Should we be interested? He's big and mobile.

He's also never played an NHL game.

I wouldn't trust him at the NHL level.

 

[BuiltTagonTough]

Usage is the million dollar question between those two.

Right now, Gionta gets 75% DZone Starts and Pommers gets roughly a 50/50 split.

At the end of the day, neither one is likely to be the best bottom 6 veteran forward option in UFA. But, if I had to choose, I'd probably lean towards Gionta just because we know he can fit with Foligno and Larsson in a bottom 6 role.

I'd stick with Gio, as his role is defined and he performs well enough (arguably) to earn that spot. Admittedly this has everything to do with my desire to never see Poms on the point during a Buffalo PP again in my lifetime.

I will also admit a very large part of my decision is that we've spent what feels like a decade trying to get away from the soft core that had him and Vanek et al in it and I want nothing to do with bringing any of them back into the mold of team we are trying to build now.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Further to my point in the GBU that playing Gorges on the 3rd pairing is not going to turn things around for him. Dude is an anchor on everyone - he makes everyone he plays with worse. And don't even tell me he's passing the eye test, either. (Also, note Risto when away from Gorges.)

I think everyone watching can see Gorges is playing really bad. I want to say he has an injury because he is much worse than last year.

 

[Zip15]

Assuming full health from the forwards (hahahaha!), I think they'll keep 23 and 63 together . My best guess:

9-90-21
63-15-23
82-22-12
28-27-26
x 44

 

[TehDoak]

Some interesting tidbits on re: Kane on MvsW podcast yesterday

#1. Marek (who works at sportsnet) claims that prior to the Kane altercation on draft day that the Sabres were close to dealing Kane prior to the incident.
#2. Russo, who was the guest on the show, said that Kane was being pursued heavily by the Wild prior to the incident.

And now we have the Kane injury. And Vancouver searching for a 20 goal scorer.

MN has: LHD
Anaheim has: LHD
Vancouver has: LHD

Smoke, fire, etc.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I've been in favor of a Kane for LHD trade for some time now, but between drama and injuries it doesn't seem likely any time soon.

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm of the mindset that Kane, Eichel and Ennis are guys that need to have the puck and drive their lines. Having Ennis and Eichel on the same line is just asking for someone to play outside of their comfort zone and step all over eachother (see: Kane and Eichel together, without Reinhart), which will make the player and the line less effective.

Kane - ROR - Okposo
Moulson - Eichel - Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste
Ennis - Reinhart - Girgensons
Foligno - Larsson - Gionta
Deslauriers

If/when one of Kane, Ennis or Moulson are traded, retired or launched into the sun... give Nylander a call.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Kane for Edler?

I kinda want to keep Kane, even with his faults as a player he is fast, strong, hits and will drop the gloves while scoring 20-25 goals.

 

[haseoke39]

Kane for Edler?

Yes AINEC.

 

[Jim Bob]

Would Edler waive his NTC to come to Buffalo?

 

[slip]

Yes AINEC.

The only downside: you expose Bogo to the expansion draft (presuming you protect Edler over Bogo, which I would). Essentially the trade becomes all those Sabres assets for 2.5 years of Alexander Elder. That's absolutely crappy from an asset management side of things.

 

[Deevo]

The only downside: you expose Bogo to the expansion draft (presuming you protect Edler over Bogo, which I would). Essentially the trade becomes all those Sabres assets for 2.5 years of Alexander Elder. That's absolutely crappy from an asset management side of things.

We can't expose Bogo due to him having an NMC.

 

[Jim Bob]

The only downside: you expose Bogo to the expansion draft (presuming you protect Edler over Bogo, which I would). Essentially the trade becomes all those Sabres assets for 2.5 years of Alexander Elder. That's absolutely crappy from an asset management side of things.

Kane and Bogo for Edler and $5M in cap space isn't that bad of a deal given Kane and Bogo's injuries since the trade.

 

[Jim Bob]

We can't expose Bogo due to him having an NMC.

His NMC went away after the trade from Winnipeg.

 

[slip]

We can't expose Bogo due to him having an NMC.

Then McCabe is gone.

The best solution is picks/prospects for a defenseman who will be UFA at end of season. Save our trade ammo for next off season when we can build a roster without fear of having core pieces picked off by the draft.

 

[Paxon]

We can't expose Bogo due to him having an NMC.

It has not been confirmed that he has a NMC. The best evidence is that the Sabres didn't choose to keep that clause when they acquired him.

 

[slip]

Kane and Bogo for Edler and $5M in cap space isn't that bad of a deal given Kane and Bogo's injuries since the trade.

It's not that bad, but it's still bad in terms of managing assets. I can deal with Pysyk being a victim of the expansion draft numbers game, but losing Bogo too? For nothing? Obviously the best solution, asset-wise, is flip Bogo for another defenseman with greater durability (but perhaps on a shorter contract?). Yet that clearly does nothing to address our lack of depth right now.

I'll say this: I don't have much faith in Murray's ability to find useful defensive plugs/depth. I hope he proves me wrong, and soon.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's not that bad, but it's still bad in terms of managing assets. I can deal with Pysyk being a victim of the expansion draft numbers game, but losing Bogo too? For nothing? Obviously the best solution, asset-wise, is flip Bogo for another defenseman with greater durability (but perhaps on a shorter contract?). Yet that clearly does nothing to address our lack of depth right now.

I'll say this: I don't have much faith in Murray's ability to find useful defensive plugs/depth. I hope he proves me wrong, and soon.

Depending on how the rest of the season goes, who's to say that LV takes someone else even if Bogo is exposed?

His contract is rich for a 2nd pairing RHD with durability issues.

 

[gallagt01]

What would Murray have to add to Kane for Tanev? I know he'd be expensive.

Would Murray be better off trying to upgrade Bogosian than adding a LHD?

I think he might.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

What would Murray have to add to Kane for Tanev? I know he'd be expensive.

Would Murray be better off trying to upgrade Bogosian than adding a LHD?

I think he might.

I'd love a Kulikov/Tanev pairing. Then move Bogo to Vegas after the season.