I'm trying to find teams that have a worse defense than Buffalo and can only come up with Toronto. Do we have the second worse D in the league? I'm not as high on McCabe as many are, so maybe that's the reason, but I think the idea of this team being above average is a joke. We have one high quality D and zero depth. If Risto goes down, this is once again a lottery team.
As you can tell I'm really pissed that we didn't do more to address defensive depth in the offseason.
I'm looking for someone to talk me down.
Opening statement: No objective basis, so subjective reasoning assumed.
I didn't know that's what I said. What I DO know that I said was that our top 6, taken together as a group, are worse than any other team besides Toronto. Same goes for our defensive depth. I'm begging to be proven otherwise - do you have some good examples?
Repeated without objective basis, so subjective reasoning assumed.
Based on what I saw on the ice last year. Maybe I'm a poor judge of quality, and they're great...I certainly don't think so but I'd be relieved to be proven wrong. We had a very (very) crappy D and I don't think McCabe and Nelson will be our saviors. I like Kulikov but is he enough of an upgrade?
First: Subjective basis confirmed.
Second: Again, no objective basis...
I think every single one of them are below-average at the position and responsibility level they are being asked to play. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks, but I think sabres fans are blindly optimistic with this defensive group. Plus, if one of them goes down, there are no replacements.
Might have avoided the vitriol if you had opened with this reason why you believed what you believed. This view can at least be debated.
Below-average in position and responsibility yields a below-average defense. It doesn't yield a near-NHL-worst defense.
Whether Risto is either below or meets the requirements for a #1 is moot, as that will be his role, and the Sabres would be foolish to spend the assets required to obtain someone better than Risto. Regardless of what he signs for, he's cost-cotnrolled for 5 more years. So, objectively, Risto's slot can't be upgraded, unless it's a sign and trade.
Kulikov as #2. Struckbyaparkedcar has provided objective evidence previously that Kulikov posts Fowler-like numbers, and at less cost. Therefore, I don't believe BUF can upgrade the #2 slot, and again, would be foolish to spend the assets to do so.
Bogosian as #3. McCabe as #4. I'm not seeing that pairing as below-average in role and responsibility vs. the entire NHL. As compared to some teams, sure.
Gorges as #5. Nelson / Franson as #6. Gorges doesn't seem out of place in role or ability on the bottom pair. Nelson / Franson could be upgraded, but again, at what incremental cost? BUF is committed to Nelson's development in either ROC or BUF, whether he is in the Sabres future plans, or used as trade piece. Franson will be gone after this season (and likely at the deadline if the Sabres implode this season, which I am not expecting).
After taking a glance at defensive depth charts, I'd say Arizona, Boston, Edmonton, Detroit, New Jersey, Toronto, Vancouver, Carolina, and Philly are all close to or behind Buffalo.
Carolina, Philly, Toronto, and Edmonton all have good young players with a lot of room to grow, but I think the rest are not very good.
Cannot take anyone seriously who thinks Arizona, Carolina, or Philly have worse defensive depth than us. I would trade Defense with them in a heartbeat.
Ad hominem instead of asking CC to clarify or defend his view.
Doug, you're grossly underestimating the impact of the Kulikov addition. Assuming he pairs with Risto, he's pushing Gorges down the depth chart and into a lesser role. That alone is a significant change to the backend.
Yes, they aren't deep. They don't have many top-four options outside of the starting group and an injury to any of Kulikov, Risto, McCabe or Bogo would be tough to stomach. But this isn't the trainwreck you seem to think it is (on paper at least).
It's probably a bottom-10 defense, but i dont think it will hinder the team's ability to progress overall.
Thanks for this rational response. I share this view.
"What you saw last year" only matters if Ristolainen continues to be leveraged as a risk mitigator vs his contemporaries.
EXACTLY!
Remember all of the main board threads about how great our defense was going to be when we traded for Regher and singed Ehrhoff? Top 3 defense baby!
Non-sequitir. You're bringing the Chewbacca defense.
If Bogosian can't go and Risto isn't signed, what the hell is our defense?
Franson on the top pair? If not, who plays their off-side? Is Gorges or McCabe on their off side going to be that much of an improvement?
This team....
What if Kulikov spontaneously combusts?
What if Nelson is abducted by aliens?
I'd bet the vast majority of Sabres fans (including me) prefer another depth signing or trade upgrade. It doesn't need to happen today. It didn't need to happen already. There is some merit to allowing things to unfold.
1. Sign Risto so you know what your budget is this year, and in future.
2. Get longer looks at Nelson and Guhle so you can better project their future development / value.
3. See what d-men kick loose from other teams closer to opening day, and into the season.
4. Wait for injuries at forward to playoff-likely teams with better defensive depth.
5. Determine what the BUF organizational young cost-controlled forward depth looks like, and what forward could be traded for a young cost-controlled d-man.
6. Determine what Moulson still has in the tank.
7. Decide whether to troll / keep trolling Kane to see if anyone will bite, or whether you pull the line in until next season.
Pretty much nailed it on every point as far as I'm concerned. 
