Roster Speculation, 2018 offseason Part 3/ Post-free agency edition

[Digable5]

Imagine having that contract and a goalie signed for 10.5 until he’s 37

Now imagine you have nothing else around them. It would be one thing if they were the veteran backbone to a competitive team. It would be more enjoyable if Ottawa or Montreal’s situation was happening to TMLs instead.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

ROR sure wasn't traded for his play on the ice. Botterill traded him because he publicly stated a 31st place team needs change and only ROR could bring back 5 pieces, 3 of whom will be on our roster. The speculated personality clash with Eichel may be a part of it, maybe the biggest part of it, but we'll never know unless Botterill writes a tell-all book some day.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Let’s add some actually great players to help the rest meet that potential.

Removing ROR did exactly the opposite of that line of thinking and adding players like Stone who are older than the core about to hit pay day doesnt seem like a Botterill thing to do. If anything to me it would go against his supposed plan because the ROR trade and the accumulation of 3 first round draft picks are telling me hes going to build the way the Jets did and what Murray should have did rather than accelerate something that wasn't ready to be accelerated.

Does this kick back our window? yes but I think winning the draft lottery kinda sealed that idea with management.

 

[Digable5]

1. No way I'm taking on Callahan's monster contract for 2 seasons. We've taken on a good chunk of cap hit this offseason but it's manageable, as of right now anyways.

2. He hasn't even been given a real chance, he'll probably stay as a winger but I think you're short selling his ability to play center in a pinch if needed.

3. No, just no. There's literally no reason to trade Reinhart right now. ROR was a big enough shake-up.

+1: Mitts hasn't even played a single season in the NHL yet...

There’s only 2 seasons on Callahan’s contract and it would expire before we would need to re-up Mitts or Dahlin. For me the bigger hesitation comes from him being a RWer. Without buyouts, Bogosian, Callahan and Sobotka would clear about $14m in just two seasons. Not fighting for it, but I like the idea of adding a player like Callahan if we can afford it.

Sure Reinhart can play C in a pinch and that’s helpful, but I’m not going into any season expecting him to fill that role all season long. He’s a winger.

I know I’m guilty of holding onto players potential for too long. We all put the “future” in HFBoards. With Reinhart I am excited to see if he can build on that finish. However, if I had the chance to move him for a player that had already reached Reinhart’s ceiling and still has prime years remaining, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

I apologize if it sounded like I would hand Mittelstadt the captaincy today. What I am trying to say is that Eichel will be the captain this year and by the end of the season a good chunk of the fans will like Mittelstadt better and think he would be a better fit for captain, even though they would never take it away from Jack. Again, that is unless Dahlin steals the show as one might expect and the rest is moot. Just a prediction, not a suggested move.

 

[Aladyyn]

Just to make sure people don't get disappointed next season: no, Reinhart is not going to shoot 17% over a full season.

 

[Digable5]

Removing ROR did exactly the opposite of that line of thinking and adding players like Stone who are older than the core about to hit pay day doesnt seem like a Botterill thing to do. If anything to me it would go against his supposed plan because the ROR trade and the accumulation of 3 first round draft picks are telling me hes going to build the way the Jets did and what Murray should have did rather than accelerate something that wasn't ready to be accelerated.

Does this kick back our window? yes but I think winning the draft lottery kinda sealed that idea with management.

This makes a lot more sense to me, than others’ arguments. Maybe the same argument, but you’re explanation stuck. Thank you.

I just don’t see the O’Reilly trade that way. I Think it had more to do with broken relationships and broken spirits than it did direction of the team. I’d be very disappointed if we are purposely setting this team up to fail again.

Maybe Reinhart for Stone is a Murray type trade trying to accelerate the process too early. I can be talked out of it, but I don’t believe Botterill is sold on Samson any more than I am. As much as I prefer Stone over more “magic beans”, maybe Reinhart for another player that fits the need for speed would be better.

I’m not trying to just send Reinhart packing, but I’m definitely unsure he’s worth a long extension. And if Botterill feels the same way, move him now before another slow start and his value begins to really take a hit.

 

[Aladyyn]

Moving Reinhart before removing Housley might be worse than the O'Reilly trade, ngl

 

[Sabre Dance]

Grossly disappointing if true. Trading your second best and most relied upon player for spare parts just "wake up" the rest of the team? Yikes.

The GM has actually said this. I think people ignored it.

 

[joshjull]

Moving Reinhart before removing Housley might be worse than the O'Reilly trade, ngl

He's not getting moved so don't worry about it happening. Everything Botts says about him is about being part of the young core going forward.

 

[ceky]

still bummed we did not get Vanek or Grabner in FA. Vanek would not come back anyways and it's more nostalgia (and I will get crucified here, I guess), but Grabner got 3,2 x3... maybe overpay 4M?

fever dream: Then trade for Raffl (4th + 6th round pick?).... bottom 6 LW/RW solved until replaced by our youth in 2-3 years.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Moving Reinhart before removing Housley might be worse than the O'Reilly trade, ngl

This is why I wanted a coach that had experience with rebuilding teams. My worst fear last year was we start tearing apart the team without knowing if coach was the problem.

Here we are. I think we'll be ok though because we won the lottery. The next coach will have enough talent to win with.

 

[hizzoner]

Like Friedman’s 31 thoughts, here are my much less informed 3+1 thoughts.

1. Sabres trade Johann Larsson and a 5th for Ryan Callahan and a 3rd. I think Larsson should be moved. In this option, Tampa is able to shed a lot of salary for only a change in picks. The Sabres get back a 3rd they moved for Sheary and add a WNYer with tremendous leadership ability. Callahan can still contribute in the bottom six and the Sabres can eat the contract for two more seasons. bigger fan favorite than Jack by the end of next season, if people haven’t just switched their loyalties to Dahlin.
I agree Larsson should be moved but I do not like this trade. Add a second from TB along with Callahan and our third and I am ok with it. Would give them the Toronto 6th we have next year! Helps TB get EK but oh well...

 

[GellMann]

He's not getting moved so don't worry about it happening. Everything Botts says about him is about being part of the young core going forward.

And even if Botterill wanted to move Sam more than he wanted anything else, he simply can't if he'd like to keep his job past 20 games this year. Because we have two top 6 forwards right now, and hopefully three with Casey, but two that have played more than 6 NHL games. That is not only dreadful, but trading Sam would in all likelihood give us one player that fits that criteria. Furthermore, Sam appears to be the only piece that can lift other players to drive possession, and we need that next to Jack, our only forward with point per game potential as of now, so that we can get our best scoring forward into ideal situations and not hemmed in with Pominville or Kyle all game long.

If he moves Sam we score 20 goals in our first 20 games and have to blow up everything again, IMO.

 

[GellMann]

still bummed we did not get Vanek or Grabner in FA. Vanek would not come back anyways and it's more nostalgia (and I will get crucified here, I guess), but Grabner got 3,2 x3... maybe overpay 4M?

fever dream: Then trade for Raffl (4th + 6th round pick?).... bottom 6 LW/RW solved until replaced by our youth in 2-3 years.

Vanek wanted to come back just last year, no? I think he would have.

 

[Aladyyn]

Vanek wanted to come back just last year, no? I think he would have.

It was some year when Murray was GM iirc

 

[Digable5]

Having gone back and read some articles with Botterill quotes, I see that I am wrong. Not only does he include Sam in the core, but he also says he was trading O’Reilly in part because of his age in relation to the core.

This really concerns me. Our roster is basically aging veterans on their way out and young players that may never amount to anything more than they already are. We need some guys in their prime to carry this team through their ups and downs. Not stars necessarily, but guys that are more consistent in their game and produce,

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This really concerns me. Our roster is basically aging veterans on their way out and young players that may never amount to anything more than they already are. We need some guys in their prime to carry this team through their ups and downs. Not stars necessarily, but guys that are more consistent in their game and produce,

That's exactly why it made no sense to trade ROR.

 

[Royal Thunder]

And even if Botterill wanted to move Sam more than he wanted anything else, he simply can't if he'd like to keep his job past 20 games this year. Because we have two top 6 forwards right now, and hopefully three with Casey, but two that have played more than 6 NHL games.That is not only dreadful, but trading Sam would in all likelihood give us one player that fits that criteria. Furthermore, Sam appears to be the only piece that can lift other players to drive possession, and we need that next to Jack, our only forward with point per game potential as of now, so that we can get our best scoring forward into ideal situations and not hemmed in with Pominville or Kyle all game long.

If he moves Sam we score 20 goals in our first 20 games and have to blow up everything again, IMO.

This myth that Conor Sheary is not a top 6 player needs to end. Could see him putting up 50+ points this year. Kyle Okposo may not be an ideal option but his production is still that of a top 6 winger. So realistically we probably have five top 6 players as of now

 

[Digable5]

That's exactly why it made no sense to trade ROR.

Well I never supported the O’Reilly trade, but I could understand it more as a lockerrom trade. Out with the old and in with the new. Moving him because he’s 27 is just asinine. I hope that it’s just PR talk.

 

[Dahlin 2 Eichel]

I am going to wait and decide to see if getting O’Reilly & hot head out of the locker room improves anything. Buffalo can’t keep flipping coach’s, and ending up with the same results.

A shake up could be what this team needs. Putting jack into a position where he is going to have to carry more of the load for the team might be the best thing. Surrounding your future stars with positive hard working team mates will do more for them than having a “player practice” after the regular practice.

Could be an interesting season. Let’s hope we make a couple more moves this offseason.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

My money is Reinhart and Eichel will have career years and people will look back and see it was RoR that was the problem.

 

[GellMann]

This myth that Conor Sheary is not a top 6 player needs to end. Could see him putting up 50+ points this year. Kyle Okposo may not be an ideal option but his production is still that of a top 6 winger. So realistically we probably have five top 6 players as of now

He sure will be on our team, but aside from being a Crosby-fit (Kunitz in 16-17 surely was not a top 6 forward even though he was a "first liner on the cup winner) he's definitely a middle-six guy and definitely not a driving player like Eichel or Reinhart.

 

[GellMann]

My money is Reinhart and Eichel will have career years and people will look back and see it was RoR that was the problem.

If ROR's mere presence was holding Reinhart and Eichel back from some sort of dominating career year, we need to trade both of them and start over.

Because ROR being a beast on the ice was holding zero people back. The only thing it was holding back was a 43 point finish in the standings.

 

[Duddy]

Would be totally shocking if 2 guys who have either been injured or had a horrible year have career years 4 years into their careers.
Shocking

 

[Royal Thunder]

He sure will be on our team, but aside from being a Crosby-fit (Kunitz in 16-17 surely was not a top 6 forward even though he was a "first liner on the cup winner) he's definitely a middle-six guy and definitely not a driving player like Eichel or Reinhart.

Fair point, but there an awful lot of top 6 players who don't drive play