Roster Speculation, 2018 offseason Part 3/ Post-free agency edition

[Digable5]

People saying Reinhart is not a center triggers me every time. Another chance? How about a real 1st chance.

To me that’s just semantics. Call it “real 1st chance”, “another chance” or rumspringa, I don’t care. He can have a chance to play center, but I am not going to plan on him filling that role.

Besides, without him on the wing, there probably won’t be enough offensive talent on the wing to make any of our centers successful.

 

[jc17]

I feel like it wouldn't actually take too much to get Stone in a trade.

 

[Aladyyn]

I feel like it wouldn't actually take too much to get Stone in a trade.

If Botts trades for Stone after what he did with ROR he shouldn't have any believers left.

 

[Digable5]

Moving Reinhart for an older version of Reinhart doesn't sound like a great plan.

I think Mark Stone is better than Reinhart. I’m not talking about just getting an older version. Their 22 year old season, Reinhart scored 50 points and Stone scored 64.

I’ll admit I’m not Reinhart’s biggest fan. I’m hopeful he will become the player we saw at the end of the season, but I’m afraid that’s fools gold. I’d rather have the minimum 60+ player that just had a PPG season, than sit around waiting for Reinhart to maybe do more than 50. I’m tired of waiting for potential we may never see.

 

[Aladyyn]

I think Mark Stone is better than Reinhart. I’m not talking about just getting an older version. Their 22 year old season, Reinhart scored 50 points and Stone scored 64.

I’ll admit I’m not Reinhart’s biggest fan. I’m hopeful he will become the player we saw at the end of the season, but I’m afraid that’s fools gold. I’d rather have the minimum 60+ player that just had a PPG season, than sit around waiting for Reinhart to maybe do more than 50. I’m tired of waiting for potential we may never see.

Are you ready to pay 8+ million in cap space for the next 8 years?

 

[Digable5]

Are you ready to keep the team the way it is? I’d rather pay 8x8 for a PPG player than to pay Sam 5 or 6M for 50 points. If you think Sam is a player equal to Stone, why wouldn’t you lock him up for 8 years now? If you’re wrong you’ve got another Overpaid winger. I’m confident Stone would be far and away our best winger at his worst.

 

[Aladyyn]

Are you ready to keep the team the way it is? I’d rather pay 8x8 for a PPG player than to pay Sam 5 or 6M for 50 points. If you think Sam is a player equal to Stone, why wouldn’t you lock him up for 8 years now? If you’re wrong you’ve got another Overpaid winger. I’m confident Stone would be far and away our best winger at his worst.

Stone is an awesome player. If the ROR trade had not happened I'd be pushing for him way harder than you. But in our current situation acquiring him makes negative sense. Slow, older than our core, coming from a tire fire of a locker room.

 

[Digable5]

Stone is an awesome player. If the ROR trade had not happened I'd be pushing for him way harder than you. But in our current situation acquiring him makes negative sense. Slow, older than our core, coming from a tire fire of a locker room.

Unless the ROR trade means we are tanking (again), why wouldn’t we still look for ways to improve and win now? I’d understand your argument about age if I suggested Reinhardt for Pacioretty who is 29. Stone being a 26yo RFA shouldn’t be a detractor.

Why does everyone on the team have to be between 18-22? We have our core in Eichel, Mitts, Dahlin and maybe even Risto. Let’s not wait for everyone to maybe become great players. Let’s add some actually great players to help the rest meet that potential.

I want a faster team for sure, but you make it sound like Stone is replacing a speedster. Reinhardt for Stone does not make us slower.

And, unless you are blaming Stone for the locker room issues in Ottawa It shouldn’t make a difference. If you don’t want any Senators because of their locker room troubles we shouldn’t just be trading Reinhardt; we’d have to get rid of Eichel too and just dump the whole roster. “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.”

 

[Fezzy126]

What do folks think about Girgensons these days? I would've seen him as a prime change of scenery candidate, but I don't see him getting moved at this point. I'm guessing he'll just continue floating around the bottom 6 wings, as he has been, until he sticks undeniably somewhere or gets moved/let go to free agency.

What does he need to succeed? He's still a pretty young guy. I think his offensive ability is limited despite showing flashes under Nolan. I always kinda wished he had more of an edge to his game... outside of eating big hits, throwing his body around and generally falling over a lot in the process. Maybe if he took Botts directions to train hard this offseason to heart, he looks a little different this year.

Stimson did a write up about Girgensons a little while back for the Athletic:

Zemgus Girgensons’ ability to slow down games may determine where he best fits

He brought up a number of comparable players, including Adam Lowry and Matt Nieto. I found this quite interesting because I've heard multiple posters clamoring for Lowry here. I think Girgenson's game is quite under-appreciated here because his offense never developed as we hoped, but his ability to suppress shots is still very good.

His role and linemates have fluctuated quite a bit since he came into the league. I think a little more stability in his role and better linemates will serve him well.

 

[BananaSquad]

Stimson did a write up about Girgensons a little while back for the Athletic:

Zemgus Girgensons’ ability to slow down games may determine where he best fits

He brought up a number of comparable players, including Adam Lowry and Matt Nieto. I found this quite interesting because I've heard multiple posters clamoring for Lowry here. I think Girgenson's game is quite under-appreciated here because his offense never developed as we hoped, but his ability to suppress shots is still very good.

His role and linemates have fluctuated quite a bit since he came into the league. I think a little more stability in his role and better linemates will serve him well.

I’ve been thinking more and more, maybe we just make him the 4th line centre and let him run with it.

 

[Dreakon13]

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart
ERod - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Girgensons - Berglund - Pominville
Sobotka - Larsson - ??? (Baptiste?)

Eichel's line gets toughest offensive minutes, PP1. Mittelstadt and co. get PP2 and easier offensive assignments.

Berglund's line gets ROR's former defensive minutes, PK1, chip in a few here and there maybe and expect Eichel and Mittelstadt's lines to make up the brunt of ROR's lost offensive production (and then some perhaps, ERod-Mitts-Okposo may very well be more productive with easier assignments and a mentally recoup'd Okposo than ???-ROR-Okposo was last year despite Mitts being a downgrade for now in the middle).

Pray the 4th line clicks and can actually eat some minutes not being a liability and contribute on PK2. If Sobotka can be the "one solid effort every 15 games" M. Foligno and Baptiste can be the "little bit of gas in the tank" Gionta, maybe recreate some of that FLG magic.

I could see it being servicable, especially if a better start and the locker room itself leads to more motivated play night in and night out.

Ultimately it's not about next year though, which is why I wouldn't trade young guys for slightly more proven older guys to "win now" (re: Reinhart for Stone)... it's about the following year and the year after that, as Rochester gets stronger with the wave of fresh NHL upside talent they have and/or they're getting (Asplund, Olofsson, Thompson, Pilut, Borgen, Hickey, Pu, Oglevie, Guhle, etc) and start to sprinkle into the lineup as guys like Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Bogosian, Hunwick and Beaulieu cycle out through FA or trades/buyouts.

 

[Aladyyn]

Unless the ROR trade means we are tanking (again), why wouldn’t we still look for ways to improve and win now? I’d understand your argument about age if I suggested Reinhardt for Pacioretty who is 29. Stone being a 26yo RFA shouldn’t be a detractor.

Why does everyone on the team have to be between 18-22? We have our core in Eichel, Mitts, Dahlin and maybe even Risto. Let’s not wait for everyone to maybe become great players. Let’s add some actually great players to help the rest meet that potential.

I want a faster team for sure, but you make it sound like Stone is replacing a speedster. Reinhardt for Stone does not make us slower.

And, unless you are blaming Stone for the locker room issues in Ottawa It shouldn’t make a difference. If you don’t want any Senators because of their locker room troubles we shouldn’t just be trading Reinhardt; we’d have to get rid of Eichel too and just dump the whole roster. “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.”

Thank you for writing this out for me and making my point. Acquiring Stone means disregarding every possible reason for trading ROR.

And yes, trading Reinhart for Stone would indeed make us slower.

 

[skipjack]

Would you guys do this:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/147983683/

 

[Sabre Dance]

Thank you for writing this out for me and making my point. Acquiring Stone means disregarding every possible reason for trading ROR.

And yes, trading Reinhart for Stone would indeed make us slower.

O'Reilly wasn't traded because of speed or age. They didn't get back speed in the deal and the Sabres got older.

 

[Jim Bob]

Would you guys do this:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/147983683/

Heck no.

I want nothing to do with Weber's contract, let alone giving up picks to take it on.

I wouldn't even trade Bogosian for Weber right now. At least Bogo's deal is off the books in two years.

 

[joshjull]

Re-read the post you quoted

I suppose it may have actually taken place in early February. A Buffalo News article from January 26 (a Friday) refers to the surgery as being scheduled for "next week".

D’oh

I feel shame

 

[Digable5]

Thank you for writing this out for me and making my point. Acquiring Stone means disregarding every possible reason for trading ROR.

And yes, trading Reinhart for Stone would indeed make us slower.

I don’t see how I did that unless you believe they need to tank and start over completely with Dahlin, Mitts and hopefully Hughes (players not a part of our losing years).

I personally, besides Larsson, believe the purge is over. Now’s the time to use what we have to improve the roster and turn quantity into as much quality as we can obtain.

I’m not against Reinhart, I would just like to start winning and stop hoping players will get better to the point where their potential is gone and we’re stuck with mediocre. As much I love EASports it’s unrealistic to expect every player will get better.

Stone is an immediate improvement over Reinhart and I think we’d be lucky if Sam ever reached that level. I’d take the boat instead of the mystery box every time.

If we can get Stone for Nylander and SJS 1st or a bigger package fine. Have Sam and Stone, but then we are also much slower now and expensive.

Sheary-Eichel-Stone
Berglund-Mitts-Okposo
Girgensons-Reinhart-Bailey
Wilson-Sobotka-Baptiste

 

[sincerity0]

Would you guys do this:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/147983683/

Ya, no. Nobody wants Weber and that atrocious contract.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ya, no. Nobody wants Weber and that atrocious contract.

My knee jerk reaction was that contract was bad.

Then I went to CapFriendly and it looks even worse.

Weber's cap hit is more than Bogosian and Beaulieu combined.

And his contract runs 6 years beyond Bogosian's.

That is a big, fat, huge, NOOOOOOOO from me.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Sheary - Eichel - Reinhart
ERod - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Girgensons - Berglund - Pominville
Sobotka - Larsson - ??? (Baptiste?)

Eichel's line gets toughest offensive minutes, PP1. Mittelstadt and co. get PP2 and easier offensive assignments.

Berglund's line gets ROR's former defensive minutes, PK1, chip in a few here and there maybe and expect Eichel and Mittelstadt's lines to make up the brunt of ROR's lost offensive production (and then some perhaps, ERod-Mitts-Okposo may very well be more productive with easier assignments and a mentally recoup'd Okposo than ???-ROR-Okposo was last year despite Mitts being a downgrade for now in the middle).

Pray the 4th line clicks and can actually eat some minutes not being a liability and contribute on PK2. If Sobotka can be the "one solid effort every 15 games" M. Foligno and Baptiste can be the "little bit of gas in the tank" Gionta, maybe recreate some of that FLG magic.

I could see it being servicable, especially if a better start and the locker room itself leads to more motivated play night in and night out.

Ultimately it's not about next year though, which is why I wouldn't trade young guys for slightly more proven older guys to "win now" (re: Reinhart for Stone)... it's about the following year and the year after that, as Rochester gets stronger with the wave of fresh NHL upside talent they have and/or they're getting (Asplund, Olofsson, Thompson, Pilut, Borgen, Hickey, Pu, Oglevie, Guhle, etc) and start to sprinkle into the lineup as guys like Pominville, Sobotka, Berglund, Bogosian, Hunwick and Beaulieu cycle out through FA or trades/buyouts.

I think Wilson is a safe bet to be in the lineup opening day at this point.

Then the Sobotka/Pomminville spots are there for the taking by any of Olofsson/Tage/Baptiste, if they can outplay them.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

I would only trade Bogosian for Weber and Montreal’s 2019 1st lol

 

[Digable5]

I would only trade Bogosian for Weber and Montreal’s 2019 1st lol

Yeah, but MTL’s 1st’s ELC would expire and we’d still have Weber’s contract keeping us from signing him.

 

[Ace]

Imagine having that contract and a goalie signed for 10.5 until he’s 37

 

[Tsyolin]

Like Friedman’s 31 thoughts, here are my much less informed 3+1 thoughts.

1. Sabres trade Johann Larsson and a 5th for Ryan Callahan and a 3rd. I think Larsson should be moved. In this option, Tampa is able to shed a lot of salary for only a change in picks. The Sabres get back a 3rd they moved for Sheary and add a WNYer with tremendous leadership ability. Callahan can still contribute in the bottom six and the Sabres can eat the contract for two more seasons.

2. Sam Reinhart is not a center. I’m fine if we want to give him another chance, but I don’t have any faith in it working. I believe that is why Berglund and Sobotka were brought back in the Blues trade (besides the salary part). One of them will fill the open Center position.

3. Therefore, Sabres trade Reinhart for Mark Stone. Stone is older, but it would be another “shake-up” move to a far more proven offensive threat. Ottawa could save money while also having the potential to get better or be adding a potential #1 center.

1. No way I'm taking on Callahan's monster contract for 2 seasons. We've taken on a good chunk of cap hit this offseason but it's manageable, as of right now anyways.

2. He hasn't even been given a real chance, he'll probably stay as a winger but I think you're short selling his ability to play center in a pinch if needed.

3. No, just no. There's literally no reason to trade Reinhart right now. ROR was a big enough shake-up.

+1: Mitts hasn't even played a single season in the NHL yet...

 

[Chainshot]

My knee jerk reaction was that contract was bad.

Then I went to CapFriendly and it looks even worse.

Weber's cap hit is more than Bogosian and Beaulieu combined.

And his contract runs 6 years beyond Bogosian's.

That is a big, fat, huge, NOOOOOOOO from me.

This needs more ooo’s.