Speculation: Roster Speculation: 2017-18 Part 1

[sincerity0]

I know he literally just got hired, but has there been any reports/indication of what Bottsy is gonna do with the back end?

It's 2-3 pieces away from being very good. And IMO 2 of those pieces are Guhle and Antipin. All we really need is one dman wether its a UFA or through a trade.

How does:

Kulikov-Risto
McCabe-UFA
Antipin/Guhle-Bogo

x Antipin/Guhle

look? Especially with a new coach who can hopefully make Bogo effective. Also does Kulikov have any desire to sign here? If not then Bottsy has a lot of work to do.

Given the way that Botterill talked today about development, I would say there is about a 0% chance that Guhle starts the season in Buffalo.

The Sabres have one (maybe) piece of that puzzle coming in.

 

[Chainshot]

I wonder how Botts feels about someone like Ejdsell who could help backfill the need on LW that remains, even with the attempted conversion of Bailey. Seems like he'd be a solid addition.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I think a combo of Botteril + Housley can fix Bogosian with better deployment and a partner acquisition. Hes overpaid for what he is now, but Moulson and Ennis are both useless

The three of them form a critical mass that you probably have to break up, even if it means moving the one with marginal value.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Bogosians best seasons involve missing 20 games and being carried by Enstrom. If by some act of jah we acquire someone as good as Enstrom, we should not immediately make that person's job harder.

The only real options for Bogo if we keep him on are a sheltered offensive pairing, likely at LD, or a low-minute defensive pairing with a throwaway vet. He shouldn't be anywhere near the type of vanilla second pairing McCabe and him have been for the past two seasons.

 

[skipjack]

Surprised this guy still plays out of NHL. Best defenceman in the Swedish league this season.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10018

We should get the rights for him in a trade along with Tanev.

 

[dotcommunism]

I wonder how Botts feels about someone like Ejdsell who could help backfill the need on LW that remains, even with the attempted conversion of Bailey. Seems like he'd be a solid addition.

Word is he's going to Nashville.

Surprised this guy still plays out of NHL. Best defenceman in the Swedish league this season.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10018

We should get the rights for him in a trade along with Tanev.

Vancouver doesn't hold his rights. They placed him on unconditional waivers back in 2015 to terminate his contract and he went back to Europe.

 

[Chainshot]

Word is he's going to Nashville.


Vancouver doesn't hold his rights. They placed him on unconditional waivers back in 2015 to terminate his contract and he went back to Europe.

Well... ****.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Variables of Eichel’s Next Contract http://wp.me/p17Rp0-1v4S via @thehockeywriter

This person thinks a 7 year $49M contract for Eichel is doable. I don't, Jack and his agents aren't gonna sign for less than what Ryan O'Reilly got. Eichel has a high opinion of himself, he's not going to look at what Mackinnon, Gaudreau, Barkov etc got - he's going to look at what McDavid and Draisaitl get and place himself accordingly.

 

[Samsonite23]

Variables of Eichel’s Next Contract http://wp.me/p17Rp0-1v4S via @thehockeywriter

This person thinks a 7 year $49M contract for Eichel is doable. I don't, Jack and his agents aren't gonna sign for less than what Ryan O'Reilly got. Eichel has a high opinion of himself, he's not going to look at what Mackinnon, Gaudreau, Barkov etc got - he's going to look at what McDavid and Draisaitl get and place himself accordingly.

Agreed. There's no way in hell he signs that.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Given the way that Botterill talked today about development, I would say there is about a 0% chance that Guhle starts the season in Buffalo.

The Sabres have one (maybe) piece of that puzzle coming in.

I wouldn't say 0% but definitely less chance than if Murray were here. Botterill said he's going to talk to everybody in the organization, he'll get to hear how high people are on Guhle and he'll also have the video of his 3 games in the NHL.

It won't hurt Guhle to spend a few months in Rochester or the whole season but injuries always happen and he'll get a callup.

 

[TehDoak]

Well, Under Murray I was rather convinced that 8th overall was getting moved.

Based off of Botterill's comments...not so sure.

And given he's likely going to be much more tight lipped that Murray, we probably won't know until the expansion draft.

 

[Icicle]

Pittsburgh kept taking players that showed promise in Buffalo even during the crap years, but were given up on for whatever reason. Ruhwedel for example.


There are likely players he wanted in Pittsburgh that they didn't acquire for one reason or another that he will likely pursue immediately. I also hope we hold on to these tweeners longer than we have been lately and get closer to the 50 contract limit.

Curious if this leads to Fedun or Nelson returning. Or other reclamation projects like Schultz, which I was convinced we would have been all over last season, but Pittsburgh beat us to it.


I'm not sure he is going to breakup the top talents in the lineup until he understands them better, but will focus his efforts on the tweeners and make sure there's competition abound. That's a lot cheaper and less risky to start.

Though I'm sure he knows all about Kane by now, but he also fits a north south game, so I'm almost thinking its less likely he is traded now.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Well, Under Murray I was rather convinced that 8th overall was getting moved.

Based off of Botterill's comments...not so sure.

And given he's likely going to be much more tight lipped that Murray, we probably won't know until the expansion draft.

8 for D just makes too much sense.

My dream offseason still sees Bogosian taken by LV & two top4 additions via trade.

I accept this is now extremely unlikely.

 

[SabresFan26]

Pittsburgh kept taking players that showed promise in Buffalo even during the crap years, but were given up on for whatever reason. Ruhwedel for example.


There are likely players he wanted in Pittsburgh that they didn't acquire for one reason or another that he will likely pursue immediately. I also hope we hold on to these tweeners longer than we have been lately and get closer to the 50 contract limit.

Curious if this leads to Fedun or Nelson returning. Or other reclamation projects like Schultz, which I was convinced we would have been all over last season, but Pittsburgh beat us to it.


I'm not sure he is going to breakup the top talents in the lineup until he understands them better, but will focus his efforts on the tweeners and make sure there's competition abound. That's a lot cheaper and less risky to start.

Though I'm sure he knows all about Kane by now, but he also fits a north south game, so I'm almost thinking its less likely he is traded now.

Kane's North South is dump and chase, or shoot the puck just over the blue line. His hockey IQ will limit him in a puck possession system. I'd still trade him for defensive help. I'm also not sold on him being a great locker room guy from his previous track record.

 

[Gabrielor]

If we hold onto pick 8, there's like a 98% chance it's a dman, based on these pressers.

 

[skipjack]

Vancouver doesn't hold his rights. They placed him on unconditional waivers back in 2015 to terminate his contract and he went back to Europe.

We need to sign him.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Taking a look around the league at playoff time is dangerous. It leads to folks wanting to build exactly the way other teams are built. All kinds of talk about the "LA model," "Chicago model," and the Pittsburgh model."

However, I think it is important to see trends for what they are. That's what I'm interested in, and watched games closely looking for them. And I've noticed a trend in scoring lines.

Disclaimer: I'm using the term "3rd line" though I don't believe it's a good term. As soon as one uses the term "3rd line," a lot of folks think Mike Peca, and the checking line from EA sports NHL game. I agree with Scotty Bowman - don't number your lines, just refer to them by the center. But for simplicity in writing, I'll use the term "3rd line." I do not think at 3rd line is a checking, defensive, or otherwise different line than the "1st line" or "2nd line."

Look at Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Ottawa. What's the similarity? It's putting an actual scoring threat on the third line to create depth. The Pens did it last year with Kessel on the third line. Chicago has done it in the past, moving Patrick Sharp to the third line. LA had Mike Richards on the third line.

Pittsburgh: Kessel or Hornqvist has been with the third line with Bonino almost all playoffs. See how important Hornqvist has been. Traditional non-1st liners with Crosby and Malkin.

Anaheim: Rakell and/or Perry on the third line with Vermette almost the whole playoffs. Rakell has been there more. Traditional non-1st liners with Getzlaf.

Ottawa: Pageau as the third line center, and he's been very effective. Ottawa is a rare team that has a traditional top 6, but with Pageau as the 3C, they have tremendous scoring depth.

Take a look at how their opponents reacted:

Washington: Ran a traditional stacked top six, and a traditional bottom six. Moved Ovechkin off the line with Backstrom, and onto a line with Eller, for game 5. Created three scoring lines. Burakovsky added needed puck retrieval and possession skills to the Backstrom line. Won their next two games.

Edmonton: Stacked their top two lines for the first five games. Broke up McDavid and Draisaitl for game 6. Immediately destroyed Anaheim. RNH and Draisaitl played with good wingers, McDavid played with more ordinary wingers.

Rangers: Stayed with a traditional top 6 and bottom 6, though the Hayes-Grabner line was good.

----------------------------------------------------

The teams that stay true to three scoring lines (Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Ottawa) often had non-traditional top 6 players with their top centers:

Anaheim had Ritchie and Eaves with Getzlaf. Those two wingers were able to battle for the puck on the forecheck, which created a lot of time and space for Getzlaf. Getzlaf didn't need great wingers to produce. He needed wingers to do the dirty work. Buffalo needs to take a look at this method for Eichel. Eichel doesn't really need great wingers, he needs big, fast wingers who can get the puck back to him in space.

Pittsburgh has Sheary, Guentzel, and Rust with Crosby. Fast wingers with great hockey IQ who could go get the puck for Crosby, then know where to go to receive a pass.

Ottawa is alone among these teams, putting traditional top 6 wingers with Turris and Brassard.

Only Nashville advanced without this forward line construction, but they have the unique top 4 defensively. Which, in my opinion, is a lot harder to replicate.

-----------------------------------

So, what should Buffalo do?

I think it's obvious: build three scoring lines. And with the center spine or Eichel, O'Reilly, and Reinhart, they are in perfect position to do so.

As previously mentioned, the Sabres don't need to go acquire a winger like Duchene or skilled winger to play with Eichel. He'd be just fine with lesser wingers. Eichel needs wingers to go get the puck along the boards, skate with him, don't rely on having the puck on their stick, and help on defense. Wingers that could play with him are Girgensons, Baptiste, Bailey, and possibly Carrier.

O'Reilly is easy to build around. He can make up for defensive issues for the wingers, and can play both with or without the puck. He's not produced with Kane, and I don't think Okposo is a great fit, since Okposo needs the puck a lot. Other than that, build with whoever.

Reinhart is fairly easy to build around. His wingers are best as bigger, faster wingers who create time and space for him. He'd also be good with Okposo, since Reinhart doesn't need the puck a lot to be effective.

------------------------------------

I think that having scoring depth over three lines is the way Botterill, the new head coach, and the Sabres need to approach the team's construction. It's clear that teams with three scoring lines playing another team with traditional top 6, bottom 6 construction had the advantage. I'm not posting lines, since that's what everyone will gravitate to. But my thoughts above are what the team needs to be thinking about when building lines. Washington and Edmonton are very good teams that got beat by teams because they could not match their scoring depth, until they finally created it themselves.

No reason to trade Reinhart. Use Kane, 8OA, and free agency to rebuild the defense. Ditch ideas about stacking a top 6, unless the team has 7 actual top 6 forwards where the 7th forward can drive the third line. Time to get in line with NHL reality.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Forward lines for opening night if Kane isn't traded for a D man:

Carrier-Eichel -XXX
Girgs- RoR-Okoposo
Kane-Reinhart- Erod
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Sign a Ufa to play on Eichel's wing, and sign some depth for the wings. Ennis and Moulson need to be gone. Is there anyway to get them off the roster?

 

[Icicle]

Kane's North South is dump and chase, or shoot the puck just over the blue line. His hockey IQ will limit him in a puck possession system. I'd still trade him for defensive help. I'm also not sold on him being a great locker room guy from his previous track record.

Personally I trade him for whatever his value is by the expansion draft, since supposedly that's why he was too hard to move at the trade deadline.

 

[Jame]

Taking a look around the league at playoff time is dangerous. It leads to folks wanting to build exactly the way other teams are built. All kinds of talk about the "LA model," "Chicago model," and the Pittsburgh model."

However, I think it is important to see trends for what they are. That's what I'm interested in, and watched games closely looking for them. And I've noticed a trend in scoring lines.

Disclaimer: I'm using the term "3rd line" though I don't believe it's a good term. As soon as one uses the term "3rd line," a lot of folks think Mike Peca, and the checking line from EA sports NHL game. I agree with Scotty Bowman - don't number your lines, just refer to them by the center. But for simplicity in writing, I'll use the term "3rd line." I do not think at 3rd line is a checking, defensive, or otherwise different line than the "1st line" or "2nd line."

Look at Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Ottawa. What's the similarity? It's putting an actual scoring threat on the third line to create depth. The Pens did it last year with Kessel on the third line. Chicago has done it in the past, moving Patrick Sharp to the third line. LA had Mike Richards on the third line.

Pittsburgh: Kessel or Hornqvist has been with the third line with Bonino almost all playoffs. See how important Hornqvist has been. Traditional non-1st liners with Crosby and Malkin.

Anaheim: Rakell and/or Perry on the third line with Vermette almost the whole playoffs. Rakell has been there more. Traditional non-1st liners with Getzlaf.

Ottawa: Pageau as the third line center, and he's been very effective. Ottawa is a rare team that has a traditional top 6, but with Pageau as the 3C, they have tremendous scoring depth.

Take a look at how their opponents reacted:

Washington: Ran a traditional stacked top six, and a traditional bottom six. Moved Ovechkin off the line with Backstrom, and onto a line with Eller, for game 5. Created three scoring lines. Burakovsky added needed puck retrieval and possession skills to the Backstrom line. Won their next two games.

Edmonton: Stacked their top two lines for the first five games. Broke up McDavid and Draisaitl for game 6. Immediately destroyed Anaheim. RNH and Draisaitl played with good wingers, McDavid played with more ordinary wingers.

Rangers: Stayed with a traditional top 6 and bottom 6, though the Hayes-Grabner line was good.

----------------------------------------------------

The teams that stay true to three scoring lines (Anaheim, Pittsburgh, and Ottawa) often had non-traditional top 6 players with their top centers:

Anaheim had Ritchie and Eaves with Getzlaf. Those two wingers were able to battle for the puck on the forecheck, which created a lot of time and space for Getzlaf. Getzlaf didn't need great wingers to produce. He needed wingers to do the dirty work. Buffalo needs to take a look at this method for Eichel. Eichel doesn't really need great wingers, he needs big, fast wingers who can get the puck back to him in space.

Pittsburgh has Sheary, Guentzel, and Rust with Crosby. Fast wingers with great hockey IQ who could go get the puck for Crosby, then know where to go to receive a pass.

Ottawa is alone among these teams, putting traditional top 6 wingers with Turris and Brassard.

Only Nashville advanced without this forward line construction, but they have the unique top 4 defensively. Which, in my opinion, is a lot harder to replicate.

-----------------------------------

So, what should Buffalo do?

I think it's obvious: build three scoring lines. And with the center spine or Eichel, O'Reilly, and Reinhart, they are in perfect position to do so.

As previously mentioned, the Sabres don't need to go acquire a winger like Duchene or skilled winger to play with Eichel. He'd be just fine with lesser wingers. Eichel needs wingers to go get the puck along the boards, skate with him, don't rely on having the puck on their stick, and help on defense. Wingers that could play with him are Girgensons, Baptiste, Bailey, and possibly Carrier.

O'Reilly is easy to build around. He can make up for defensive issues for the wingers, and can play both with or without the puck. He's not produced with Kane, and I don't think Okposo is a great fit, since Okposo needs the puck a lot. Other than that, build with whoever.

Reinhart is fairly easy to build around. His wingers are best as bigger, faster wingers who create time and space for him. He'd also be good with Okposo, since Reinhart doesn't need the puck a lot to be effective.

------------------------------------

I think that having scoring depth over three lines is the way Botterill, the new head coach, and the Sabres need to approach the team's construction. It's clear that teams with three scoring lines playing another team with traditional top 6, bottom 6 construction had the advantage. I'm not posting lines, since that's what everyone will gravitate to. But my thoughts above are what the team needs to be thinking about when building lines. Washington and Edmonton are very good teams that got beat by teams because they could not match their scoring depth, until they finally created it themselves.

No reason to trade Reinhart. Use Kane, 8OA, and free agency to rebuild the defense. Ditch ideas about stacking a top 6, unless the team has 7 actual top 6 forwards where the 7th forward can drive the third line. Time to get in line with NHL reality.

Only part I disagree with.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Botterill talked today about the type of players that fit best with players like Eichel and O'Reilly. Players that get in on forecheck, get pucks, maybe not the most skilled players.

Girgensons and Carrier welcome to the top 6.

 

[haseoke39]

Forward lines for opening night if Kane isn't traded for a D man:

Carrier-Eichel -XXX
Girgs- RoR-Okoposo
Kane-Reinhart- Erod
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta

Sign a Ufa to play on Eichel's wing, and sign some depth for the wings. Ennis and Moulson need to be gone. Is there anyway to get them off the roster?

No money for that ****.

 

[Gabrielor]

Random idea for an Eichel winger:

Bailey for sheary

Sheary is a rfa, dk what his deal looks like, but it'll certainly save pit money. We flip our youth for a little experience and a good fit for jack.

Girgs eichel sheary
Carrier oreilly okposo
Kane Reinhart Ennis
Foligno Larsson gionta/Rodrigues

Looks pretty good.

 

[cramdizzl]

Botterill talked today about the type of players that fit best with players like Eichel and O'Reilly. Players that get in on forecheck, get pucks, maybe not the most skilled players.

Girgensons and Carrier welcome to the top 6.

They never shoulda left... but, Dan.

I'm very excited for Girgs to have a resurgence under this new staff. I think we'll be talking about him like a young power winger again.

 

[SabresFan26]

Rodriguez-Eichel-Okposo
Carrier-ROR-Reinhart
Foligno-Larsson-Gionta
Girgensons-Boyle-Bailey

McCabe-Ristolainen
Antipin-Van Riemsdyk
Russell-Bogosian
Gorges

Lehner
Ullmark

Ennis picked up by Vegas in the Expansion draft
Gionta re-signed 1 year deal for cheap
Kane traded to Vegas for Trevor Van Riemsdyk (who they take from Chicago in Expansion)
Brian Boyle signed 2 years 2 milion per year (a true 4th line center who can pk and win FO)
Kris Russell signed 2 year 3 million per year
Moulson bought out
Deslauriers waived in effort to send to Rochester

Gionta re-signing allows for Nylander/Baptiste to continue development in AHL

I think this team is much more competitive with an improved defense and a system that maximizes our players skill sets.