Roster Speculation '17-'18: Someone, Somewhere, In Summertime

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Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
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The vast majority of long term & big money UFA signings see their contracts become anchors long before they expire.

One of the biggest issues with the Sabres are contracts like Moulson and Okposo which are UFA signings gone bad.

To get premier UFAs to sign with a team that has finished DFL in three of the past five seasons, you will have to vastly overpay for their services.

No thank you.

Half the people called out Moulson being bad before that signing.

Okposo was good until his head got scrambled and he had a major reaction to drugs.

Hodgson had an extremely rare genetic disease.

Leino was a stupid un-earned signing like Moulson.

Erhoff also got injured immediately into contract.


Most teams don't have career ending injuries or 1 in 10 million rare diseases pop-up with their long-term guys 1-2 years into their contract.
 

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
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Europe
If Lehner had value he would have probably been moved at the TDL. Fully expecting him to leave for free at this point or some late round pick at the draft at most. His QO/likely contract demands are a problem for any team, not just for us. Doubt GMs would be that stupid to give up assets for him when they probably realize even we don't want him even though we don't have a proven starter to replace him with.

If we could get something like Aho and Hanifin from Carolina, then I'm on board with a ROR trade...otherwise I'm keeping him
We probably have to add to get Hanifin alone based on contract situation, let alone getting Aho. That would be laughed at by anyone with common sense.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
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Imagine this lineup in circa 2004-06

XXXX-Briere-XXXX
XXXX-Drury-Vanek
XXXX-Roy-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Mckee-Tallinder
XXXX-XXXX
Campbell-XXXX

Briere, Drury, Vanek, Roy = Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Mittelstadt
Campbell, Tallinder, Mckee = Guhle, Risto, Scandella

Don't waste your time pointing on the differences... it's a broad stroke comparison... and it's close enough.


Would you tear down that core, to rebuild?
Do you think the problem is in the core?

Now Imagine how that lineup in the co caps era would've performed with THIS surrounding cast:

Pyatt-Briere-Kotalik
Mair-
Drury-Vanek
M.Ryan-Roy-Mancari
E.Boulton-Novotny-Bartovic
x Peters

McKee-Tallinder
Paetsch-Kalinin
Guhle-Delmore
x Brad Brown :)

^ This is what the co-caps era would look like without the depth it had to support the core. This is what the co-caps era looks like under the 2017-18 Botterill Sabres.
 
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LetsDoughBuffalo

Registered User
Apr 4, 2014
453
70
Imagine this lineup in circa 2004-06

XXXX-Briere-XXXX
XXXX-Drury-Vanek
XXXX-Roy-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Mckee-Tallinder
XXXX-XXXX
Campbell-XXXX

Briere, Drury, Vanek, Roy = Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Mittelstadt
Campbell, Tallinder, Mckee = Guhle, Risto, Scandella

Don't waste your time pointing on the differences... it's a broad stroke comparison... and it's close enough.


Would you tear down that core, to rebuild?
Do you think the problem is in the core?

Now Imagine how that lineup in the co caps era would've performed with THIS surrounding cast:

Pyatt-Briere-Kotalik
Mair-
Drury-Vanek
M.Ryan-Roy-Mancari
E.Boulton-Novotny-Bartovic
x Peters

McKee-Tallinder
Paetsch-Kalinin
Guhle-Delmore
x Brad Brown :)

^ This is what the co-caps era would look like without the depth it had to support the core. This is what the co-caps era looks like under the 2017-18 Botterill Sabres.

This is a fun post!
 

Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
55,499
34,281
Rochester, NY
Half the people called out Moulson being bad before that signing.

Okposo was good until his head got scrambled and he had a major reaction to drugs.

Hodgson had an extremely rare genetic disease.

Leino was a stupid un-earned signing like Moulson.

Erhoff also got injured immediately into contract.


Most teams don't have career ending injuries or 1 in 10 million rare diseases pop-up with their long-term guys 1-2 years into their contract.

If you look around the league, most UFAs that get 5+ years at $5M+ per become anchor contracts that teams want to unload sooner rather than later.

This isn't just a Sabres thing.
 
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Husko

Registered User
Jun 30, 2006
14,908
6,788
Greenwich, CT
I agree with what I think is the sentiment of James's post; I don't want to tear down this core. Build around it and seek other core pieces, but I just don't have the stomach for another rebuild.
 

Shootica

Registered User
Jan 17, 2013
681
421
Utica, NY
The one goddamned thing I don’t want to hear for the third straight offseason is how a healthy Bogo is going to help anything. A healthy Bogo doesn’t exist. And even if it did...it’s a **** player.

Need him gone so this crutch can be taken away from GMs.

He's not going to say that he wants Bogo gone, no GM will say that about a player currently on their roster. He also said that they will be making some changes. I think the more important takeaway from that quote is his confidence in Nelson being back next year.
 

gallagt01

Registered User
Jun 10, 2006
14,747
2,644
Sloan
Imagine this lineup in circa 2004-06

XXXX-Briere-XXXX
XXXX-Drury-Vanek
XXXX-Roy-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Mckee-Tallinder
XXXX-XXXX
Campbell-XXXX

Briere, Drury, Vanek, Roy = Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Mittelstadt
Campbell, Tallinder, Mckee = Guhle, Risto, Scandella

Don't waste your time pointing on the differences... it's a broad stroke comparison... and it's close enough.


Would you tear down that core, to rebuild?
Do you think the problem is in the core?

Now Imagine how that lineup in the co caps era would've performed with THIS surrounding cast:

Pyatt-Briere-Kotalik
Mair-
Drury-Vanek
M.Ryan-Roy-Mancari
E.Boulton-Novotny-Bartovic
x Peters

McKee-Tallinder
Paetsch-Kalinin
Guhle-Delmore
x Brad Brown :)

^ This is what the co-caps era would look like without the depth it had to support the core. This is what the co-caps era looks like under the 2017-18 Botterill Sabres.

Nice perspective. When you compare the forward depth side by side from both of these teams, you really start to see a difference.

Okposo, Wilson, Rodrigues, Baptiste, Girgensons, Larsson, Pominville (bad Pominville), Pouliot, Josefson, Nolan.

Vs.

Grier, Dumont, Pominville (good), Hecht, Afinogenov, Gaustad, Kotalik, Mair, Pyatt.

There's a striking difference between these groups of players and a combination of stagnated development (Girgensons, Larsson, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching), trading away a plethora of high picks (one for Kane, one for Lehner, one for ROR, one for Gorges, two for Fasching/Des), missing in the mid and late rounds, and poor trade and FA acquisitions has contributed.

I'm on board with building on the core you laid out above. Hopefully Asplund and Pu pan out. Hopefully Olofsson and CJ Smith are legit. Hopefully some of the intriguing picks from this past year (Davidsson, Weissbach) continue impressing.

But man, even if those things happen -- which is unlikely -- Botteril has his work cut out for him.

(And that's just the forwards.)
 

GellMann

Registered User
Dec 16, 2014
4,281
3,779
Lancaster NY
Yes, they would.

Aho is a cost-controlled 20 year old that has 65 points in 77 games. ROR is older, slower, has never scored that many points, and has a contract to go with his defensive game.

We like Risto I guess, but he's honestly not a very good hockey player.

We might even need to add to that to get those two.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
If Lehner had value he would have probably been moved at the TDL. Fully expecting him to leave for free at this point or some late round pick at the draft at most. His QO/likely contract demands are a problem for any team, not just for us. Doubt GMs would be that stupid to give up assets for him when they probably realize even we don't want him even though we don't have a proven starter to replace him with.


We probably have to add to get Hanifin alone based on contract situation, let alone getting Aho. That would be laughed at by anyone with common sense.

Teams make goalie changes in the offseason more so than the trade deadline
 

CatsforReinhart

Registered User
Jul 27, 2014
7,315
1,623
Frankfurt
Yes, they would.

Aho is a cost-controlled 20 year old that has 65 points in 77 games. ROR is older, slower, has never scored that many points, and has a contract to go with his defensive game.

We like Risto I guess, but he's honestly not a very good hockey player.

We might even need to add to that to get those two.
Risto > Hanifin
ROR > Aho

Risto is not a very good hockey player? Is this a joke?
 

GellMann

Registered User
Dec 16, 2014
4,281
3,779
Lancaster NY
Risto > Hanifin
ROR > Aho

Risto is not a very good hockey player? Is this a joke?
He sure is good at getting the puck to Jack on the PP, at no-look clearing the puck off the boards as his first move (which gave him the primary assist on the Duchene goal last night), as well as the first pass flip to the other team's D in the neutral zone when he has three open wingers in support.

I guess he checks hard though.

ROR is a better hockey player, by a little bit, than Aho right now, but again, ROR is slow and getting slower, is older, and has that contract, and still never produced as much in a single season than Aho did before he was old enough to buy beer, playing on a team that's also offensively anemic. Aho's trade value is above ROR's.
 

valet

obviously adhd
Sponsor
Jan 26, 2017
8,975
5,144
buffalo
He sure is good at getting the puck to Jack on the PP, at no-look clearing the puck off the boards as his first move (which gave him the primary assist on the Duchene goal last night), as well as the first pass flip to the other team's D in the neutral zone when he has three open wingers in support.

I guess he checks hard though.

ROR is a better hockey player, by a little bit, than Aho right now, but again, ROR is slow and getting slower, is older, and has that contract, and still never produced as much in a single season than Aho did before he was old enough to buy beer, playing on a team that's also offensively anemic. Aho's trade value is above ROR's.
it's hard to qualify their value... I'd say it's about equal on the whole, but some teams would probably pay more for one than the other depending on needs
 
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