Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Doshell Propivo]

The sooner that the rebuild begins the sooner everyone on this board will be happy

Very true.

Prospects, draft parties and the fuuuuture.

 

[Tahoeblue]

He does not have to play like Martin or Clutterbuck. Roy is seeing that Engvall is allergic to the boards and going near the front of the net because he refuses to take any contact.

I always thought maybe he slides in as a 3c when JGP leaves. Has decent vision but is allergic to the wall. Have no idea how he is on the dot!

 

[MJF]

I’m not a big Don Waddell fan, but he’s the GM and deserves the credit there. A person in a supportive role vs one running the show are two entirely different things.

Fitz and Guerin and Blake have been meh since stepping into larger roles as the GM, that includes inheriting franchise players on their roster.

Maybe we can bring in George McPhee this summer as GM to replace Lou. I bet that would make you happy.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Who do you all think is the front runner to succeed Lou? Chris L.? Roy? Someone from outside the org?

 

[Throttle]

Maybe we can bring in George McPhee this summer as GM to replace Lou. I bet that would make you happy.

He seems to have done just fine in Vegas.

 

[doublechili]

Who do you all think is the front runner to succeed Lou? Chris L.? Roy? Someone from outside the org?

I'm game for a total reset. Fire everyone, in the NHL and BP.

Tear down rebuild of management/coaching. Let a new smart, proactive guy retool the roster.

 

[Osakahaus]

Who do you all think is the front runner to succeed Lou? Chris L.? Roy? Someone from outside the org?

outside the islanders please

 

[Lame Lambert]

Very true.

Prospects, draft parties and the fuuuuture.

Overpaid vets, first round exits and mediocrityyyyyyyyyyy

 

[doublechili]

Prospects, draft parties and the fuuuuture.

Overpaid vets, first round exits and mediocrityyyyyyyyyyy

Is there a third option?

[I'd like a team that can contend and improve at the same time, but that's me]

 

[Lame Lambert]

Is there a third option?

[I'd like a team that can contend and improve at the same time, but that's me]

Without draft capital, prospects and cap space? No.

 

[doublechili]

Without draft capital, prospects and cap space? No.

That's pretty bleak.

IDK. The way I look at it, we're not rooting for an original 6 franchise. We're not located in Florida, Colorado, Vegas, etc.. Makes me think it's going to be extremely hard to win a Cup in a 32 (34?) team league unless you have a VERY smart GM running things. And in that case, you may as well be really crazy and figure he could fix things while not sucking for 8 years.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Is there a third option?

[I'd like a team that can contend and improve at the same time, but that's me]

Yes. Which is precisely what the Isles are doing. You can criticize the tactics but support the strategy. And that's not a defense of Lou necessarily. You can tear it down, trade everyone, shed as much payroll and accumulate picks. Or you can continue to build on what you have, be competitive and try to improve. The first method is GUARANTEED to result in years of sucking. The second method offers no guarantee of success but certainly gives you more of a chance, short term.

Someone here said that you don't rebuild out of of frustration. You rebuild because you are left with no choice. The risk/reward for a complete teardown just isn't there for me with this team. Not yet.

Without draft capital, prospects and cap space? No.

Is "draft capital" the new "assets?"

 

[Lame Lambert]

Yes. Which is precisely what the Isles are doing. You can criticize the tactics but support the strategy. And that's not a defense of Lou necessarily. You can tear it down, trade everyone, shed as much payroll and accumulate picks. Or you can continue to build on what you have, be competitive and try to improve. The first method is GUARANTEED to result in years of sucking. The second method offers no guarantee of success but certainly gives you more of a chance, short term.

Someone here said that you don't rebuild out of of frustration. You rebuild because you are left with no choice. The risk/reward for a complete teardown just isn't there for me with this team. Not yet.

2021: Missed playoffs; fired coach
2022: Embarrassed in six games
2023: Fired coach; still likely another missed playoffs/first-round exit

Yep, I'm sure this group just needs more time.

Is "draft capital" the new "assets?"

If you say it is.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

2021: Missed playoffs; fired coach
2022: Embarrassed in six games
2023: Fired coach; still likely another missed playoffs/first-round exit

Yep, I'm sure this group just needs more time.

What do you mean by "this group?" I'm all for change and improvement. I just don't want to see a complete tear down. Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson, Romanov, Horvat are all between 24-28 years old. And you can restock the cupboard while still remaining competitive and being a playoff team. Just because you're a lotto loser and picking, for example, 8th overall, as opposed to 17th overall, it doesn't guarantee any acceleration of building a cup contender. This fascination with losing really perplexes me.

And you're spot on with the last three seasons (although the final chapter of this one is yet to be written). Looks like three disappointments in three seasons under three different coaches. No bueno. But I do want to point out, even though a first round exit is a first round exit, not sure they were exactly "embarrassed" by the Canes...

 

[Lame Lambert]

What do you mean by "this group?" I'm all for change and improvement. I just don't want to see a complete tear down. Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson, Romanov, Horvat are all between 24-28 years old. And you can restock the cupboard while still remaining competitive and being a playoff team. Just because you're a lotto loser and picking, for example, 8th overall, as opposed to 17th overall, it doesn't guarantee any acceleration of building a cup contender. This fascination with losing really perplexes me.

And you're spot on with the last three seasons (although the final chapter of this one is yet to be written). Looks like three disappointments in three seasons under three different coaches. No bueno. But I do want to point out, even though a first round exit is a first round exit, not sure they were exactly "embarrassed" by the Canes...

You're all for change and improvement, but I have yet to see any plan for that. Lou hasn't been able to meaningfully improve this roster in 3 years, so either he's a complete idiot, or it is not possible given our situation.

Would I like the team to be competitive immediately? Sure. Is it likely to happen, given our situation? No. I'd rather proactively start a rebuild/retool/refresh/whatever you want to call it to make you sleep better at night, than watch a single more minute of this pathetic, mediocre country club of a team.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

You're all for change and improvement, but I have yet to see any plan for that. Lou hasn't been able to meaningfully improve this roster in 3 years, so either he's a complete idiot, or it is not possible given our situation.

Would I like the team to be competitive immediately? Sure. Is it likely to happen, given our situation? No. I'd rather proactively start a rebuild/retool/refresh/whatever you want to call it to make you sleep better at night, than watch a single more minute of this pathetic, mediocre country club of a team.

Buyout/trade some of the vets. More trades like the ones for Horvat and Romanov. Build around Sorokin, Horvat, Romanov, Barzal, Dobson.

 

[MJF]

Buyout/trade some of the vets. More trades like the ones for Horvat and Romanov. Build around Sorokin, Horvat, Romanov, Barzal, Dobson.

That’s a rebuild.

 

[doublechili]

Buyout/trade some of the vets. More trades like the ones for Horvat and Romanov. Build around Sorokin, Horvat, Romanov, Barzal, Dobson.

That’s a rebuild.

If you're building around five current players, highly-paid or soon-to-be (and presumably keeping some others as well), that's not a "rebuild".

The conversation around here has always been about tearing it down, compiling picks, and stinking so that they're high picks, to rebuild from the ground up;

versus,

keeping the best of the roster intact and trying to retool on the fly.

The argument against a "rebuild" has always been that it doesn't make sense if we have guys like the five listed above.

 

[PK Cronin]

That’s a rebuild.

Almost everyone is in agreement on what to do but not what to call it.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

That’s a rebuild.

Always thought of the term "rebuild" as being directly associated with the selecting of 2-4 high draft picks in succession and then reconstructing the team, if not just supplementing it, around them already in the period where they're U23 players, if even that.

Definitely think most everyone in the biz would say that if you've got a core of 5 or 6 guys between 23-29 years of age and you feel it's time to do some landscaping or even reconstructing several portions of the team around that core, then you're talking about "retooling".

 

[Top Corner]

Buyout/trade some of the vets. More trades like the ones for Horvat and Romanov. Build around Sorokin, Horvat, Romanov, Barzal, Dobson.

I'm not sure, but with the current contracts , there’s hardly anything to work with but buyouts.

 

[CupHolders]

Always thought of the term "rebuild" as being directly associated with the selecting of 2-4 high draft picks in succession and then reconstructing the team, if not just supplementing it, around them already in the period where they're U23 players, if even that.

Definitely think most everyone in the biz would say that if you've got a core of 5 or 6 guys between 23-29 years of age and you feel it's time to do some landscaping or even reconstructing several portions of the team around that core, then you're talking about "retooling".

Poor @MJF … means well. But this has been a thing for a few years now. Rebuild vs retool.

I’m with you (and the majority of this site) a rebuild is tearing down to foundation. A retool is making significant changes, but keeping a part of a core.

 

[The Real JT]

It’s hard to be optimistic with the recent downturn in the Islanders fortunes.
It got me to thinking about Brock Nelson.

This franchise will need to cut ties with him either in the off-season or at the TDL next year at the latest. It’s just not worth it for the Islanders, who frankly are more than one player away, to invest in a new relatively high, AAV contract with term for a player his age.

Brock has been remarkably valuable to this team over the last several years and replacing him in the short term will be a difficult task. It would be nice to get some assets for him. Initially, I was thinking he would return a decent haul. Maybe that still happens but looking at what Guentzel returned, it makes me wonder. Although you could argue that Guentzel was playing with an all-time great, you can’t deny his productivity which has been at one PPG for the last six years. Brock’s numbers just aren’t as good and he hasn’t done it consistently for as long. He’s also an older player.

Yes Brock is a Center but he’s not a typical playmaker and it’s not clear that he makes the players around him better. He’s not particularly good at the dot. He may very well slot in better at the wing than at the Center position on most teams.

If you’ve hung in so far to read this long winded post then I’ll end by saying, I think the Isles are better off trading him in the off-season. I suspect they’ll get greater value with him having a full season ahead of him, there may be better options and more potential trading partners and lastly, the risk of injury will be eliminated compared to waiting to flip him at next year’s TDL.

 

[gordie43]

All this talk of a rebuild reminds me of when the isles had all those top 5 picks.

What happened to all those guys? All hall of famers right?

 

[beach]

It's not enough to get guys that hate to lose and work hard - I think this team has that - they lack talent, youth and speed. That's what they need to get this offseason - and it's a lot tougher to get than hard workers

I'm not even sure about the "hate to lose and work hard" part anymore. For two thirds of the team, it looks to me like they are just going through the motions.