Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2021-22 Pt. XIII - Josh Anderson vs Alex DeBrincat vs Kevin Fiala

[Mike C]

I think you are underselling both Greene and Chara - veteran Defenseman on expiring contracts who play over 17+ minutes a game will garner at least a 3rd pick by the deadline.

Chara and Greene are more like Kulikov and Merrill who went for a 3rd rather than a Corburn, who went for a 7th

lou has never made a deal with rangers in 28 years with devils and 4 with isles

 

[GOLFWANG]

It always depends on the market and what is out there and what GM's are willing to pay.....During our good seasons...players got traded for a crazy amount and the cap didn't go up...only screwed us a little.

 

[periferal]

I think you are underselling both Greene and Chara - veteran Defenseman on expiring contracts who play over 17+ minutes a game will garner at least a 3rd pick by the deadline.

Chara and Greene are more like Kulikov and Merrill who went for a 3rd rather than a Corburn, who went for a 7th

And I think you're underestimating...

• Lou's willingness in the past to NOT deal pending UFAs at the deadline (he's often held them for no good reason)
• If Lou deals Chara it will only be to a team Chara is ok with thus reducing Lou's negotiating power.
• Same with Greene
• And on top of all that go look at the trade deadline market and see how many defenseman are available. With a season where the contenders really have separated themselves from the non-playoff teams, it's a buyer's market thus further hurting sellers.

 

[NC 1972]

I agree with you until the last 3 words.

Youth, talent, skill, speed, offense, endurance are all valid points of criticism for the 21-22 NYI but heart? Really?

that was referring to past two years in the playoffs.

 

[SI]

And I think you're underestimating...

• Lou's willingness in the past to NOT deal pending UFAs at the deadline (he's often held them for no good reason)
• If Lou deals Chara it will only be to a team Chara is ok with thus reducing Lou's negotiating power.
• Same with Greene
• And on top of all that go look at the trade deadline market and see how many defenseman are available. With a season where the contenders really have separated themselves from the non-playoff teams, it's a buyer's market thus further hurting sellers.

Nothing surprises me with Lou... but make no mistake

He values culture over everything else. Culture trumps Strategy. Culture above everything else.

I am not arguing if he will make a deal or not, I am making a case for what the return may be for either player. IMO, Chara will be dealt (most likely to Florida - rumors swirled in the offseason and most were predicting that is where he was going to land) and Greene won't.
The games on March 15 and 17 may impact Lou's thinking because If the Isles lose to both the Caps and Rangers on those nights - it will be clear to Lou he needs to pivot for 2022-23 season.
Grabbing more picks at the deadline will give him more options in the offseason (whether he uses those picks or uses them to make other moves).

Please do not mistake Lou's loyalty and dedication to culture for stubbornness.

 

[impaaaaaact]

here’s one for the “Toews’ stats don’t count because he plays on a high powered offense” hivemind. That trade is looking like the worst Isles trade since the one that traded away the guy manning Toews’ former spot in the top 4.

 

[PK Cronin]

That's a given. Like if one of these pickles in Billy Madison had a Ranger logo, I'd root for the others. The hate runs deep.

Meg Ryan or Jack Nicholson?

 

[PK Cronin]

here’s one for the “Toews’ stats don’t count because he plays on a high powered offense” hivemind. That trade is looking like the worst Isles trade since the one that traded away the guy manning Toews’ former spot in the top 4.

They don't not count, the stats wouldn't be replicated in the Islanders system. Why is this hard to understand? Again, let us see how he, and the rest of the Avalanche, does in the playoffs.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Meg Ryan or Jack Nicholson?

Jack now, or 1974?

 

[Lights911]

They don't not count, the stats wouldn't be replicated in the Islanders system. Why is this hard to understand? Again, let us see how he, and the rest of the Avalanche, does in the playoffs.

What do the playoffs have to do with this? The guy is dominating on both ends of the ice analytically while also being a point per game defenseman.

 

[periferal]

They don't not count, the stats wouldn't be replicated in the Islanders system. Why is this hard to understand? Again, let us see how he, and the rest of the Avalanche, does in the playoffs.

Would sure like to see MacKinnon, Rantanen, & Makar in the "Islanders system."

 

[PK Cronin]

What do the playoffs have to do with this? The guy is dominating on both ends of the ice analytically while also being a point per game defenseman.

The premise of the original post is that it's "the worst trade" in forever and Lamoriello did a horrible job with asset management.

Toews is on a top tier team, currently the best in the league. Last year they were tied for the best team in the league. The year before that they were tied for third in the league.
Kadri is having a career year right now, he already has more points than he's ever put up in a full 82 game season. They currently have five players at or above a point per game pace. The defenseman Toes plays with is one of these players and is above Toews.

Last season Toews finished with 31 points and a .58 points per game.

Now, the reason I'm not buying Toews being as good as his numbers is because he is a good player, with good offensive instincts, that went to a great offensive team that always has success in the regular season. He's also playing with one of the best defensemen in the entire league. Like Kadri, he's been the beneficiary of playing in a good system for him, surrounded by great players, and is having a great year. Neither player should be expected to replicate the success they're having this season, and they likely won't. It's great he's doing so well and kudos to him, he's a good player. Is he the same player without Makar or if he's moved to a different team? Of course not, because his numbers are likely inflated this season.

I bring up the playoffs because offensive powerhouses tend to have issues in the playoffs, and that's where Toews struggled in his last year for the Islanders. If Toews is really this good he'll be able to show it in the playoffs. If he can show it in the playoffs, then there's a discussion about how bad a job Lamoriello did. Until then, I'm not interested in these inflated stats, fancy or otherwise. He's a good player on a great regular season team.

 

[PK Cronin]

Would sure like to see MacKinnon, Rantanen, & Makar in the "Islanders system."

Sure, I'd like to see Toews in it as well. I don't think their run and gun style works in the playoffs. Makes for pretty regular season totals and fantasy points though.

 

[impaaaaaact]

They don't not count, the stats wouldn't be replicated in the Islanders system. Why is this hard to understand? Again, let us see how he, and the rest of the Avalanche, does in the playoffs.

And with that logic you would have to argue that his defensive numbers would be better than Pelech’s in the Isles system.

It’s not that I don’t understand the argument, it’s that that argument doesn’t change anything. We traded a player who was under team control that is now thriving in a top pairing D role both offensively and defensively for peanuts. I cannot think of a trade that has turned out worse since the Milbury era, playoffs or not. Can you?

 

[PK Cronin]

And with that logic you would have to argue that his defensive numbers would be better than Pelech’s in the Isles system.

No. That's not how that works at all.

Edit: He's an offensive defensemen on an elite offensive team. They're doing more offense than defense. The idea that his stellar defensive play in that system would translate to a defense first system is asinine. He's being asked to play in a system that requires him to do less defending, not more.

It’s not that I don’t understand the argument, it’s that that argument doesn’t change anything. We traded a player who was under team control that is now thriving in a top pairing D role both offensively and defensively for peanuts. I cannot think of a trade that has turned out worse since the Milbury era, playoffs or not. Can you?

Oh, since the Milbury era...the team was good so infrequently and never near the cap or dealing with a pandemic cap situation that it's irrelevant. I also like that it's "turned out" already as if this is just how Toews will be from here to eternity.

 

[doublechili]

So let's sign Toews on 7/1/24 when he's scheduled to be a UFA. Or we can sign Kadri or Burakovsky this summer when COL has to let one (or both) of them go because of the cap.

Remember, we're rooting for the laundry. It's not the old days where you draft a guy and he's yours forever. With a cap (and recently a couple of expansion drafts), teams have to make decisions on guys, and often it's before they're done developing. Maybe COL made a good call on Toews, or maybe they'd have been better off spending his salary on a top goaltender instead of going cheap like they've done. We'll see come playoff time. BTW, I wonder how many of the hindsight critics wanted to dump Pelech when VGK came in to the league?

 

[periferal]

Sure, I'd like to see Toews in it as well. I don't think their run and gun style works in the playoffs. Makes for pretty regular season totals and fantasy points though.

I agree to a certain extent. I think the Avs are missing some grit/leadership from their defense/bottom 6 (and their goaltending is probably going to be an issue), but they have so much top end talent that they may be able to overcome all that.

Let's put in another way...Any Islander fan should want to trade rosters/farm systems with the Avalanche if it was possible. The Avs are a true Cup contender right now, and it's so much easier to find the things they could use then the elite talent that got them to this point.

 

[doublechili]

Let's put in another way...Any Islander fan should want to trade rosters/farm systems with the Avalanche if it was possible. The Avs are a true Cup contender right now, and it's so much easier to find the things they could use then the elite talent that got them to this point.

I'm surprised you don't think the Avs are doomed because they signed Landeskog for 8 years and will be paying him $7 million when he's 37 and broken down. They'd have been better off with draft picks.

 

[periferal]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I was searching for something totally different and randomly found this photo of Semyon Varalmov with a shirt saying, “Crimea is ours” back in 2014.

I'm not saying he should be "cancelled" or anything else. I just found it very interesting...Especially this being just after he was dealing with the alleged assault of his girlfriend in 2013. He seems pretty mild-mannered now, so seems like he was a little more "aggressive" back then.

 

[periferal]

I'm surprised you don't think the Avs are doomed because they signed Landeskog for 8 years and will be paying him $7 million when he's 37 and broken down. They'd have been better off with draft picks.

I know you put the there so it's meant to be a lighthearted post and I take it as such and back to you.

Still it does speak to the fact that perception of any poster here often clouds the argument they're trying to make.

A few years ago when I was bashing wang/snow on a daily basis one could think that I would always rail against any owner or GM. However I'm pretty pleased as punch with Malkin/Ledecky.

Point is I treat each situation as case by case, but I am usually pretty passionate about whatever take I have at the time.

 

[PK Cronin]

I agree to a certain extent. I think the Avs are missing some grit/leadership from their defense/bottom 6 (and their goaltending is probably going to be an issue), but they have so much top end talent that they may be able to overcome all that.

Let's put in another way...Any Islander fan should want to trade rosters/farm systems with the Avalanche if it was possible. The Avs are a true Cup contender right now, and it's so much easier to find the things they could use then the elite talent that got them to this point.

I think they can overcome it, but that's true of every team who is in contention. They all have a wart or two usually. I'm a big believer in defense first and working from the net out personally though.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I know you put the there so it's meant to be a lighthearted post and I take it as such and back to you.

Still it does speak to the fact that perception of any poster here often clouds the argument they're trying to make.

A few years ago when I was bashing wang/snow on a daily basis one could think that I would always rail against any owner or GM. However I'm pretty pleased as punch with Malkin/Ledecky.

Point is I treat each situation as case by case, but I am usually pretty passionate about whatever take I have at the time.

Funny. I appreciate your takes and having convos with you because you at least have your viewpoints and reasons why. Not agreeing on everything and discussing the differences is fun and why we are all on a message board. Right? To gain different viewpoints and possibly change some minds (while changing our own).

More fun than just agreeing with every little thing. That is for damn sure.

 

[HILTON HEAD]

And I think you're underestimating...

• Lou's willingness in the past to NOT deal pending UFAs at the deadline (he's often held them for no good reason)
• If Lou deals Chara it will only be to a team Chara is ok with thus reducing Lou's negotiating power.
• Same with Greene
• And on top of all that go look at the trade deadline market and see how many defenseman are available. With a season where the contenders really have separated themselves from the non-playoff teams, it's a buyer's market thus further hurting sellers.

This is spot on actually. Of course it’s a negative ethos coming from the likes of you. But it’s letter perfect. If he’s being offered nothing but 6th rounders he’s keeping everyone insured.

 

[leeroggy]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I was searching for something totally different and randomly found this photo of Semyon Varalmov with a shirt saying, “Crimea is ours” back in 2014.

I'm not saying he should be "cancelled" or anything else. I just found it very interesting...Especially this being just after he was dealing with the alleged assault of his girlfriend in 2013. He seems pretty mild-mannered now, so seems like he was a little more "aggressive" back then.

Two different things. No one believes Ukrainians want to be Russian except for a chunk of the people in the two eastern provinces, but they are a small minority. Crimea was different. If you held a legit election the majority would have voted to be part of Russia. Crimea has gone back and forth over the centuries and the West did not put up much of an argument because they understood the strategic significance of a warm weather port to Russia.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Would sure like to see MacKinnon, Rantanen, & Makar in the "Islanders system."

We wouldn’t be where we are right now that’s for sure.