Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2021-22 Pt. XIII - Josh Anderson vs Alex DeBrincat vs Kevin Fiala

[doublechili]

I completely agree. If Lou is intending to make deals at the TDL, the proper message to send is that you’re not thinking of trading anyone.

It was just last month that Steve Nash on the Nets was asked point blank if the franchise would consider trading James Harden. He looked into the camera and gave a definitive “No”.

48 hrs later Harden was traded.

Difference between Lou and Steve Nash is the difference between playing it close to the vest by being vague, and flat out lying.

 

[beach]

Continue on...

Previous thread: Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2021-22 Pt. XII - The Sell Off

Last post from previous thread:

Feel free to change the title back to "Sell Off".

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Agree on that, but some were calling to trade whatever we can to get back picks/assets and my point was Lou might not do that - Even when it makes perfect sense to.

I can see that playing out.

I'd imagine Chara definitely goes so he can win a cup and he'll have some say in it, potentially lowering his value.

Can see Greene sticking around because he doesn't want to be far from his family, if he has say.

Clutter is a big part of the room, I'm personally for trading him. Could see Lou extending him two years just as easy as trading him.

 

[PK Cronin]

I can see that playing out.

I'd imagine Chara definitely goes so he can win a cup and he'll have some say in it, potentially lowering his value.

Can see Greene sticking around because he doesn't want to be far from his family, if he has say.

Clutter is a big part of the room, I'm personally for trading him. Could see Lou extending him two years just as easy as trading him.

I really hope they trade Clutterbuck. He's the one piece that would be guaranteed to bring back an okay return.

 

[seafoam]

Lou isn’t going to say anything to the media other than that he respects and believes in his players.

Until he trades them.

His actions through the deadline are what we must wait for…

 

[periferal]

I really hope they trade Clutterbuck. He's the one piece that would be guaranteed to bring back an okay return.

I wonder about this as if you look at who's out there and how many sellers there will be, really seems like a buyer's market this trade deadline. I think Clutterbuck can definitely return a 3rd, but don't know about a 2nd...And I wonder if Lou thinks that's even worth it vs keeping morale up in the locker room.

My biggest concern is that Lou doesn't want to trade Clutterbuck as he wants to resign him this summer on a long term deal. As we've seen with guys like Parise, you can always find 4th liners at much cheaper prices than what Clutterbuck is going to command this offseason.

It's time we stopped resigning every single UFA and put valuable cap space to improving the top-end talent on this team.

 

[PK Cronin]

I wonder about this as if you look at who's out there and how many sellers there will be, really seems like a buyer's market this trade deadline. I think Clutterbuck can definitely return a 3rd, but don't know about a 2nd...And I wonder if Lou thinks that's even worth it vs keeping morale up in the locker room.

My biggest concern is that Lou doesn't want to trade Clutterbuck as he wants to resign him this summer on a long term deal. As we've seen with guys like Parise, you can always find 4th liners at much cheaper prices than what Clutterbuck is going to command this offseason.

It's time we stopped resigning every single UFA and put valuable cap space to improving the top-end talent on this team.

I won't be happy if Clutterbuck is brought back, not because I dislike him, but because the fourth line needs to be reconfigured at this point. Many of us, I think you too, wanted that line to be dismantled a bit ago because of the cost and age of the players. While the cost is going down, so is the quality of play from the line. If Lamoriello re-signs Clutterbuck, I want a two year deal at minimal ($1-1.5M) money.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I won't be happy if Clutterbuck is brought back, not because I dislike him, but because the fourth line needs to be reconfigured at this point. Many of us, I think you too, wanted that line to be dismantled a bit ago because of the cost and age of the players. While the cost is going down, so is the quality of play from the line. If Lamoriello re-signs Clutterbuck, I want a two year deal at minimal ($1-1.5M) money.

I never minded the Martin contract simply because it was so little money that he does not have to play every game. Cizikas I would have been fine with letting walk though. Clutterbuck should absolutely walk though. EVEN if he signs for what you propose I think the roster needs more of a shakeup. New personalities, more speed, and I do not want to hear how good of a season our wonderful little fourth liner is having.

We sign Clutterbuck to another contract and we do NOT improve. Lou has to get younger, faster, and this is a large reason why I hated letting Czarnik go on waivers. He would have been a perfect fit on the fourth line next season.

 

[The Real JT]

I won't be happy if Clutterbuck is brought back, not because I dislike him, but because the fourth line needs to be reconfigured at this point. Many of us, I think you too, wanted that line to be dismantled a bit ago because of the cost and age of the players. While the cost is going down, so is the quality of play from the line. If Lamoriello re-signs Clutterbuck, I want a two year deal at minimal ($1-1.5M) money.

I suppose that contract you proposed for Cal could be buried but he’s going to flame out before the deal expires.

We gave Matty Marts a four year deal for peanuts and got one really good year out of it. Not terrible.

Cizikas deal is looking bad. Yes we had little in the way of alternatives but 6 years even at a relatively low $2.5M/year is going to be an albatross. Never should’ve done it.

How about we give Cal a video tribute instead and call it a day?

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I think fair for Cal is 2.5 for two years.

It that’s with another team, that’s fine.

But I wouldn’t hate it if it’s with us. I can’t deny how good of a PKer he is, especially with Casey.

Him at 2.5, Casey at 2.5 and whatever Martin is, isn’t a killer fourth line cap hit issue of 3 years ago


But again, I’m for trading him. If we resign him that’s cool in the off-season.

my focus on restructuring the team has little to do with the 4th line

 

[islesfan186]

I won't be happy if Clutterbuck is brought back, not because I dislike him, but because the fourth line needs to be reconfigured at this point. Many of us, I think you too, wanted that line to be dismantled a bit ago because of the cost and age of the players. While the cost is going down, so is the quality of play from the line. If Lamoriello re-signs Clutterbuck, I want a two year deal at minimal ($1-1.5M) money.

The MC2 line needs to be dismantled. They were great for the better part of a decade, but you gotta know when your time is up. This year shows that they have finally reached the end of the road

This team needs a major injection of speed and skill, not aging vets and grinders

 

[SI]

I think fair for Cal is 2.5 for two years.

It that’s with another team, that’s fine.

But I wouldn’t hate it if it’s with us. I can’t deny how good of a PKer he is, especially with Casey.

Him at 2.5, Casey at 2.5 and whatever Martin is, isn’t a killer fourth line cap hit issue of 3 years ago


But again, I’m for trading him. If we resign him that’s cool in the off-season.

my focus on restructuring the team has little to do with the 4th line

I think there is a team that will give him 2y at 3 AAV on the open market.
RW, who'll give you 20 points, be a primary PK, give you 13+ minutes a game, and 180 hits.

If it is with the Isles - I can see a 2.5 for Cal, but then it is more likely 3 years at 2.5.

 

[Lek]

The hardest thing about this season in regards to the future of out players is how the bloody hell is virtually everyone having such an off year...if you inject anything all that it was the pace and length of the last two seasons then truly how does one properly evaluate theses players we all want to move on from. Certainly do not want to say "well, they were beaten down, had no time off in two years...let's give them another try". But hard to believe so many all fell off so far in such a short period of time.

Love Martin, but need to upgrade with some speed. Think the other 2/3rds of the line would be fine with added speed. Love Ross, but he is not the answer there unless you lose Cutter as well.

PPP line.....i think will be fine and much more effective if the first two lines are fixed which is what really needs to be taken care of....and only two of the remaining players this season have come close to proving they belong there, Nelson and Barzal...and that is being generous.

 

[NC 1972]

The hardest thing about this season in regards to the future of out players is how the bloody hell is virtually everyone having such an off year...if you inject anything all that it was the pace and length of the last two seasons then truly how does one properly evaluate theses players we all want to move on from. Certainly do not want to say "well, they were beaten down, had no time off in two years...let's give them another try". But hard to believe so many all fell off so far in such a short period of time.

Love Martin, but need to upgrade with some speed. Think the other 2/3rds of the line would be fine with added speed. Love Ross, but he is not the answer there unless you lose Cutter as well.

PPP line.....i think will be fine and much more effective if the first two lines are fixed which is what really needs to be taken care of....and only two of the remaining players this season have come close to proving they belong there, Nelson and Barzal...and that is being generous.

I would like to address a point in your post that has been brought up frequently by others. The nuber of games played over the last few years being one of the reasons this team has preformed so poorly this year. in a normal year there's 82 games in a season during the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 regular seasons we play 126 game that's 38 short of what would be normal an average of 63 games.
If they were indeed exhausted this is a further indictment of there age and conditioning, it didn't seem to affect Tampa Bay who played an extra series each year and also won the cup twice and are looking very good right now.
It boils down to talent as well as heart.

 

[saintunspecified]

If they were indeed exhausted this is a further indictment of there age and conditioning, it didn't seem to affect Tampa Bay who played an extra series each year and also won the cup twice and are looking very good right now.
It boils down to talent as well as heart.

I don't think this is really how it works. It was, for example, extremely difficult mentally + physically for players to come back from time off & get back into playoff condition during the bubble, and we shouldn't discount the additional demands from COVID protocols on them last year. Moreover, keep in mind that they played more games than *most* of their competition as a (relatively) older team. I do think some players are run down physically or mentally (I'd put Nabokov, Pageau, Bailey, Beauvillier, Barzal) on this list. I imagine it's been especially hard for players with very young or school age kids. A lot of us have been isolated from older family members, and the players are no different. Also, getting close & being disappointed is its own kind of mental strain.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I would like to address a point in your post that has been brought up frequently by others. The nuber of games played over the last few years being one of the reasons this team has preformed so poorly this year. in a normal year there's 82 games in a season during the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 regular seasons we play 126 game that's 38 short of what would be normal an average of 63 games.
If they were indeed exhausted this is a further indictment of there age and conditioning, it didn't seem to affect Tampa Bay who played an extra series each year and also won the cup twice and are looking very good right now.
It boils down to talent as well as heart.

I agree with you until the last 3 words.

Youth, talent, skill, speed, offense, endurance are all valid points of criticism for the 21-22 NYI but heart? Really?

 

[seafoam]

My predictions:
Chara to Tampa Bay for 2022 6th Round Pick
Clutterbuck to Colorado for 2022 Conditional 3rd Round Pick
Greene to NYR for Future Considerations

Bailey and Varlamov to be shopped in the offseason. Parise re-signed.

 

[PK Cronin]

I never minded the Martin contract simply because it was so little money that he does not have to play every game. Cizikas I would have been fine with letting walk though. Clutterbuck should absolutely walk though. EVEN if he signs for what you propose I think the roster needs more of a shakeup. New personalities, more speed, and I do not want to hear how good of a season our wonderful little fourth liner is having.

We sign Clutterbuck to another contract and we do NOT improve. Lou has to get younger, faster, and this is a large reason why I hated letting Czarnik go on waivers. He would have been a perfect fit on the fourth line next season.

I don't mind the Martin contract because it can be buried. I really don't want a bunch of deals for aging fourth liners that need to be buried at some point, and it seems like Lamoriello chose Martin for that designation. Another issue for me with Clutterbuck is that he's been banged up over and over again, at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. He's a fine player, having the best year out of the three fourth line guys, but it's just time.

I suppose that contract you proposed for Cal could be buried but he’s going to flame out before the deal expires.

We gave Matty Marts a four year deal for peanuts and got one really good year out of it. Not terrible.

Cizikas deal is looking bad. Yes we had little in the way of alternatives but 6 years even at a relatively low $2.5M/year is going to be an albatross. Never should’ve done it.

How about we give Cal a video tribute instead and call it a day?

I think Cizikas can be fine and I don't have an issue with that deal yet. The flame out is exactly what worries me about Clutterbuck. How many more injuries can he get and keep on going?

I agree with you until the last 3 words.

Youth, talent, skill, speed, offense, endurance are all valid points of criticism for the 21-22 NYI but heart? Really?

Anyone who mentions lack of heart doesn't know what the f*** they're talking about. It's just used because fans can't pinpoint why a team/player is struggling or because they want to use it to shit on the team/player.

 

[mm11]

I don't mind the Martin contract because it can be buried. I really don't want a bunch of deals for aging fourth liners that need to be buried at some point, and it seems like Lamoriello chose Martin for that designation. Another issue for me with Clutterbuck is that he's been banged up over and over again, at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. He's a fine player, having the best year out of the three fourth line guys, but it's just time.



I think Cizikas can be fine and I don't have an issue with that deal yet. The flame out is exactly what worries me about Clutterbuck. How many more injuries can he get and keep on going?



Anyone who mentions lack of heart doesn't know what the f*** they're talking about. It's just used because fans can't pinpoint why a team/player is struggling or because they want to use it to shit on the team/player.

Agree, just making the NHL takes heart and guts. But, sometimes over the years we do see a player dogging it and not having his "heart" into the game. The boys are human I guess

 

[MJF]

I would like to address a point in your post that has been brought up frequently by others. The nuber of games played over the last few years being one of the reasons this team has preformed so poorly this year. in a normal year there's 82 games in a season during the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 regular seasons we play 126 game that's 38 short of what would be normal an average of 63 games.
If they were indeed exhausted this is a further indictment of there age and conditioning, it didn't seem to affect Tampa Bay who played an extra series each year and also won the cup twice and are looking very good right now.
It boils down to talent as well as heart.

I would never question this roster's heart. These players have given us everything they have to give.

 

[MJF]

I don't mind the Martin contract because it can be buried. I really don't want a bunch of deals for aging fourth liners that need to be buried at some point, and it seems like Lamoriello chose Martin for that designation. Another issue for me with Clutterbuck is that he's been banged up over and over again, at some point he's going to fall off a cliff. He's a fine player, having the best year out of the three fourth line guys, but it's just time.

Agreed. I think it's a miracle that Clutterbuck managed to stay healthy this year. Considering the spate of injuries he's had the last 3 years...wrist, back, migraines (probably from a concussion), he's fortunate he was able to produce as much as he has. I wouldn't count on him for more seasons like this.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

My predictions:
Chara to Tampa Bay for 2022 6th Round Pick
Clutterbuck to Colorado for 2022 Conditional 3rd Round Pick
Greene to NYR for Future Considerations

Bailey and Varlamov to be shopped in the offseason. Parise re-signed.

I know they're the trendy bandwagon pick, but I would be a big time Avs fan in the playoffs if this were to come true.

 

[mm11]

I know they're the trendy bandwagon pick, but I would be a big time Avs fan in the playoffs if this were to come true.

whomever plays the raggies I'll be a fan

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

whomever plays the raggies I'll be a fan

That's a given. Like if one of these pickles in Billy Madison had a Ranger logo, I'd root for the others. The hate runs deep.

 

[SI]

My predictions:
Chara to Tampa Bay for 2022 6th Round Pick
Clutterbuck to Colorado for 2022 Conditional 3rd Round Pick
Greene to NYR for Future Considerations

Bailey and Varlamov to be shopped in the offseason. Parise re-signed.

I think you are underselling both Greene and Chara - veteran Defenseman on expiring contracts who play over 17+ minutes a game will garner at least a 3rd pick by the deadline.

Chara and Greene are more like Kulikov and Merrill who went for a 3rd rather than a Corburn, who went for a 7th