Speculation: Roster Improvements - Part II

[Lord Stan 2020]

Wait what? Connolly was regarded as a top 3 player in that draft before the season and was still top 5 after missing most of the season. Fowler was top 10 but not top 5. How did Connolly have no pedigree? He was the first 16 year old to ever score 30 goals in the WHL. His pedigree was higher then Drouin till Drouin was 17. If I'm not mistaken Drouin was playing minor midget at 16 still.

The player we needed was Gudbranson but Florida took him early.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=501646

he was first since patty marleau not the first hose
he was the top rookie of the three leagues to be named number one before the injury though.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

I don't want us moving Connolly+ 1st for Wiz, I really don't. That's not enough of an upgrade to offset the cost in the future.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I don't want us moving Connolly+ 1st for Wiz, I really don't. That's not enough of an upgrade to offset the cost in the future.

I like what la did for la but us moving a first for wiz or sekera plus tony d or slater or masin

HELL TO THE NO
so to connolly plus a first for wiz NO THANKS ill sit on thumbs

 

[Todd1a]

I don't want us moving Connolly+ 1st for Wiz, I really don't. That's not enough of an upgrade to offset the cost in the future.

Now Id do it for yandle Id do connolly brown and a 1st all day for yandle. If I got to put in Killorn so be it.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

I like what la did for la but us moving a first for wiz or sekera plus tony d or slater or masin

HELL TO THE NO
so to connolly plus a first for wiz NO THANKS ill sit on thumbs

Yeah, I'm with you. I don't think Yzerman would be that foolish but the speculation says that there's a bidding war for the remaining Dmen.

 

[Todd1a]

I wonder is there a chance you see a deal where they move adam Erne for adam larrson ? Something like they maybe put connolly in the deal also ?

 

[Callum]

I wonder is there a chance you see a deal where they move adam Erne for adam larrson ? Something like they maybe put connolly in the deal also ?

I doubt they move Larson out of New Jersey. He's finally starting to play like top-pairing defensman.

 

[Todd1a]

I doubt they move Larson out of New Jersey. He's finally starting to play like top-pairing defensman.

adam erne sounds and fits like a new jersey devil lets remember yzerman almost got ekblad the first pick at the draft. I think if stevie sees a long term solution he will make a darn good offer.

 

[Sky04]

Wait what? Connolly was regarded as a top 3 player in that draft before the season and was still top 5 after missing most of the season. Fowler was top 10 but not top 5. How did Connolly have no pedigree? He was the first 16 year old to ever score 30 goals in the WHL. His pedigree was higher then Drouin till Drouin was 17. If I'm not mistaken Drouin was playing minor midget at 16 still.

The player we needed was Gudbranson but Florida took him early.

He was before the season started and Fowler's ranking went way up as the season progressed. Going back and looking at the list, both were pretty much considered top-5 picks, but still doesn't make sense why we'd go for a winger over defenseman at the time.

Bob McKenzie's final rankings:
1 Taylor Hall, LW
2 Tyler Seguin, C
3 Erik Gudbranson, D
4 Brandon Gormley, D
5 Cam Fowler, D
6 Ryan Johansen, C
7 Nino Niederreiter, LW
8 Brett Connolly, RW

NHL midterm rankings:
1 HALL, TAYLOR WINDSOR OHL 6' 0.75" 186 LW
2 SEGUIN, TYLER PLYMOUTH OHL 6' 0.75" 180 C
3 FOWLER, CAM WINDSOR OHL 6' 2" 195 D
4 CONNOLLY, BRETT PRINCE GEORGE WHL 6' 2" 181 RW

NHL final rankings:
1 Seguin, Tyler Center Plymouth OHL
2 Hall, Taylor Left Wing Windsor OHL
3 Connolly, Brett Right Wing Prince George WHL
4 Gudbranson, Erik Defenseman Kingston OHL
5 Fowler, Cam Defenseman Windsor OHL

 

[Todd1a]

He was before the season started and Fowler's ranking went way up as the season progressed. Going back and looking at the list, both were pretty much considered top-5 picks, but still doesn't make sense why we'd go for a winger over defenseman at the time.

i can remember every lightning fan at that time wanting fowler or gormley! then in 2012 we take koekkoek over forsberg who fell right into are lap. now we have hit home runs on are late round picks! palat, gudas, ceddy! i guess you could include kucherov in round two but he fell due to khl thing thinking he would play there. We just have not hit a homerun in round one as of yet! maybe drouin and vasy are the homerun super star guys one day that can still be proven. there both still very young on drouin and vasy! i will wait more years to judge that. but connolly, koekkoek and vladdy are not duds but what are they going to become ? there really up to this point are not all star nhl players yet will they be future nhl all stars ? I mean koekkoek and vladdy have not been able to crack the nhl full time yet will they next year ? we always put vladdy in trade rumors but is he a A level prospect B level or C level ? how do other gm's view vladdy in what he can become ?

 

[Callum]

adam erne sounds and fits like a new jersey devil lets remember yzerman almost got ekblad the first pick at the draft. I think if stevie sees a long term solution he will make a darn good offer.

While I agree with you having raised a similar point before I still can't see NJD moving Larson for anything short of a young top 6 forward. I don't think we have anyone in that category that we'd be willing to move.

 

[Sky04]

i can remember every lightning fan at that time wanting fowler or gormley! then in 2012 we take koekkoek over forsberg who fell right into are lap. now we have hit home runs on are late round picks! palat, gudas, ceddy! i guess you could include kucherov in round two but he fell due to khl thing thinking he would play there. We just have not hit a homerun in round one as of yet! maybe drouin and vasy are the homerun super star guys one day that can still be proven. there both still very young on drouin and vasy! i will wait more years to judge that. but connolly, koekkoek and vladdy are not duds but what are they going to become ? there really up to this point are not all star nhl players yet will they be future nhl all stars ? I mean koekkoek and vladdy have not been able to crack the nhl full time yet will they next year ? we always put vladdy in trade rumors but is he a A level prospect B level or C level ? how do other gm's view vladdy in what he can become ?

I agree, our late round picks are superb our first round picks haven't really lived up to expectations yet except for Vlad who was a late first rounder anyways.

 

[Todd1a]

I agree, our late round picks are superb our first round picks haven't really lived up to expectations yet except for Vlad who was a late first rounder anyways.

yes i guess i spoiled with are great scouting staff now and can't understand how are first rounders in the al murray era are flops or decent guys. then are lower picks look like allstars palat 7th round kucherov 2nd round gudas 3rd round but solid top 6 defenseman. Johnson - undrafted fa allstar! koekkoek ? Drouin ? so far vasy ? so far connolly seems like a ok 3rd or 4th line guy. Vladdy ? still ? or am I just jumping the gun expecting greatness to fast ?

 

[The Macho King]

I agree, our late round picks are superb our first round picks haven't really lived up to expectations yet except for Vlad who was a late first rounder anyways.

You forgot about Drei.

 

[DFC]

I agree, our late round picks are superb our first round picks haven't really lived up to expectations yet except for Vlad who was a late first rounder anyways.

Vlad, Drouin, DeAngelo, and Vasy all look like fine picks still. The only one I think we can question at this point (still too early for Jones v. Drouin) is Koekkoek. But something weird happened in that draft though where Forsberg slid and slid and slid. I can't remember if a reason was given (bad interviews?). But a lot of teams passed on him. And then he gets traded in one of the weirdest moves in recent memory, which is perceived to be a desperation move by George McPhee in hopes of having a deep playoff run to keep his job, but still. It's been an odd road for Forsberg.

I've said before, I don't think it's so much about drafting in the first round as I think it's a matter of: maybe defensemen are just too unpredictable for Al Murray to work his magic psychic powers the same way he does with forwards.

There's still time for Koekkoek of course. I'm not calling him a bust or anything, or even a disappointment. By defenseman standards, he's still a baby, and there was a lot of lost development time. But I think there are just as many questions about the pick today as there were the day it was made. That's not a negative. Or a positive. But if he tops out as a solid #4, are we happy with the pick or do we consider it a rare Yzerman/Murray flub?

 

[Sky04]

Vlad, Drouin, DeAngelo, and Vasy all look like fine picks still. The only one I think we can question at this point (still too early for Jones v. Drouin) is Koekkoek. But something weird happened in that draft though where Forsberg slid and slid and slid. I can't remember if a reason was given (bad interviews?). But a lot of teams passed on him. And then he gets traded in one of the weirdest moves in recent memory, which is perceived to be a desperation move by George McPhee in hopes of having a deep playoff run to keep his job, but still. It's been an odd road for Forsberg.

I've said before, I don't think it's so much about drafting in the first round as I think it's a matter of: maybe defensemen are just too unpredictable for Al Murray to work his magic psychic powers the same way he does with forwards.

There's still time for Koekkoek of course. I'm not calling him a bust or anything, or even a disappointment. By defenseman standards, he's still a baby, and there was a lot of lost development time. But I think there are just as many questions about the pick today as there were the day it was made. That's not a negative. Or a positive. But if he tops out as a solid #4, are we happy with the pick or do we consider it a rare Yzerman/Murray flub?

Oddly enough I think had we choosen Forsberg in 2012, we would've probably picked Jones in 2013.

Of course Jury is still out on Drouin vs Jones but still even if Drouin develops into an elite PPG playmaking winger I still think a first pairing D-man has more of an impact, it doesn't help that 2 years after the draft we're still attemping to fill in a position that could've been solved with a sure-fire draft pick and locked into term down the line.

And no a top-4 D-man definitely can't be considered a flop, especially in a weak draft year like 2012 was.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

I don't want us moving Connolly+ 1st for Wiz, I really don't. That's not enough of an upgrade to offset the cost in the future.

Now Id do it for yandle Id do connolly brown and a 1st all day for yandle. If I got to put in Killorn so be it.

Oy vey.

Wiz is an overall much better defenseman than Yandle and puts up about the same amount of points.

He is also right handed and Yandle is left.

If there's a guy to give up "more" assets for, Wiz is that guy. Especially considering Wiz is signed for two more years.

And for the record, even though Connolly has looked much better the last few weeks and I've liked the effort and grit his game has taken on, I would trade him plus a 1st for Wiz all day long and not think anything else about it.

 

[Coopers Gum]

Oy vey.

Wiz is an overall much better defenseman than Yandle and puts up about the same amount of points.

He is also right handed and Yandle is left.

If there's a guy to give up "more" assets for, Wiz is that guy. Especially considering Wiz is signed for two more years.

And for the record, even though Connolly has looked much better the last few weeks and I've liked the effort and grit his game has taken on, I would trade him plus a 1st for Wiz all day long and not think anything else about it.

Listen to this man.

Are the Jackets selling on Wisniewski? Are we connected to any rumors?

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Listen to this man.

Are the Jackets selling on Wisniewski? Are we connected to any rumors?

It's a weird and perplexing situation. They healthy scratched him saying they wanted more from him but the next day their beat writer tweeted they were trying to trade him before the deadline. But Wiz didn't want to be traded so his NTC makes him list 10 teams he would go to and he supposedly made the list hard for Columbus to trade him, like teams with no cap room or no need for him at all etc.

I'm sure Yzerman's ears perked up when he heard he was available. The guy would be a perfect fit in so many ways. Has term. Is right handed. Etc etc.

 

[FDfranklin]

Listen to this man.

Are the Jackets selling on Wisniewski? Are we connected to any rumors?

I agree. I would want Wisniewski.

He apparently doesn't want to leave CBJ though and gave a list to his GM of 10 teams he would not want to be moved to (NTC).

 

[DFC]

It's a weird and perplexing situation. They healthy scratched him saying they wanted more from him but the next day their beat writer tweeted they were trying to trade him before the deadline. But Wiz didn't want to be traded so his NTC makes him list 10 teams he would go to and he supposedly made the list hard for Columbus to trade him, like teams with no cap room or no need for him at all etc.

I'm sure Yzerman's ears perked up when he heard he was available. The guy would be a perfect fit in so many ways. Has term. Is right handed. Etc etc.

Agreed on everything.

I never put too much stock into it when our scouts show up at certain teams games (even though it's kind of fun to speculate about it), but I do think it says a little something if you're not scouting a team. And, as far as I know, we haven't had anyone listed at CBJ games. Which is kind of disappointing.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Edit: NM, someone explained it.

Yeah but a creative GM just makes a three way trade. Circumvent the problem.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Agreed on everything.

I never put too much stock into it when our scouts show up at certain teams games (even though it's kind of fun to speculate about it), but I do think it says a little something if you're not scouting a team. And, as far as I know, we haven't had anyone listed at CBJ games. Which is kind of disappointing.

Honestly, if you are looking at trading for a guy who is 30+ and has a proven track record, I don't think you need to do much actual live scouting. You basically know what you are getting at that point. No scouts at Columbus, to me, doesn't meant we aren't kicking tires on him.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Do you guys really think Forsberg would have broke out with us like he has with Nashville? Forsberg has broken out because he's been given top line minutes which he wouldn't be close to getting on our team. Not saying Koekkoek was the better pick but you have to look at the situation, Koekkoek will be our 2nd line anchor for years.

There were some issues with Fowler and Gormley as both dropped in the draft, teams in need of D kept picking forwards instead. Fowler has started strong and looks good but again who knows if he does the same for us. We had Hedman, Ohlund was a recent signing, not sure if we had traded Meszaros yet, Ranger was still in the system and nobody knew what was going on with him. Our forwards were Stamkos/Vinny/St. Louis only. Purcell hadn't broke out, Marty was old, Downie was an energy guy so we could use someone with scoring ability. You could tell when Connolly made the team at 19 we needed forward depth, Fowler may have made the team young too but we will never know.

Wiz is not better then Yandle either, he was once on similar levels but his play this season has not been very good while Yandle has continued to improve. Wiz also makes more and is a few years older so may continue to slide. Rather not go for either unless really cheap.

 

[Boltsppy]

Until trade deadline I wish just one thing : not to move Conolly. I hope Yzy will resign him and give him another chance. Later this season (now) he started to play pretty good and goals are coming from him. If his ice-time will be 15+ next season, I think he can score 30+ goals and play nice physically - that's what we miss in our top 6. I know we've got Callahan there, but he isn't typical power forward.