Salary Cap: Roster going forward (Or: How the cap is coming to kill us)

[chasespace]

Peca seems a bit more creative than TJ.

At his size he kind of has to be in order to survive in this league.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Nooooo why did you predict this now we lose all 5! Your Babcock and petry predictions were way wrong. Your on a prediction losing streak bro. Now kucherov goes to the caps! Johnson and palat sign together in buffalo! And only Hedman and stamkos stay in Tampa bay with Matt carle.

you need to learn how to read what i write and second you are full of blank

on babcock i said i disliked the man i figured would stay didnt necessarily want him to originally thought for sure would stay then things changed and said he was probably gone

petry still shocks me hes from michigan he said his dream DREAM was to play for the wings the canadihates decided to throw a TON of money at him and he took it he would not get that deal from detroit so is probably his best move

he wanted to play for detroit but a 7 million dollar difference over 5 years is a lot of money for a kid like that

he is not a great top four honestly i think nestea will be as solid as petry or a similar player and I cannot see yzerman giving nestea that type of money if ever for a very very very long time must be some huge improvement in his overall game

stop misquoting me is annyoying if your talking in private go ahead and pull it up

i am pretty sure i told you hoped he left babcock thought would stay and knew as it changed and said he was gone is still shocking but he got paid the most money in league so dont blame him am much happier this happened as anyone knows when steve worked him him i used the word ahole and that is what he is to me

i make some predictions if they all come out wrong aint gonna change i do not buy into the bad luck BS that a lot of people live by im a glass over half full guy if dont like it you can ignore me seriously

i aint changing to make you feel safer lol get over it

i really think kucherov and hedman stay think pally and johnson stay long term they have very good situations

think stamkos stays cause says wants to and by all accounts vinik on down want him to

drouin is the big question i dont buy into the problem with cooper thing at all but does he stay and buy in if he has an off year etc..

these guys put a lot of pressure on selves maybe more then the organization or even fans put on them we seem to take it all in stride letting them develop for the most part but drouin is like the next coming so if he fails or falls short will he bite the bullet and work at his craft till he delivers will he become like connolly whom bolt 32 a long time ago pointed out attitude problems and issues real ones with cooper?

time will tell my buddy caught that i disagreed on connolly but he was right and he called it a couple years ago and that is why imho connolly is gone as much as his failings to step up was an attitude thing couldnt take criticism etc..

doesnt make him bad or anything just maybe didnt get to where needed to as fast as needed to hope that makes sense dont think connolly busts out or doesnt have a good nhl career but there were warnings as early as his first season and especially cooper calling him out at times and his reactions

is interesting to see the dynamics the guy im afraid of losing is killorn with another monster year does he go get paid or take another friendly deal
drouin have concerns on how he accepts things as he struggles or for his belief that he struggles over what he believes he should be etc..

again not trying to be a jerk your a good friend todd but you seriously are and have taken things out of context at times and is very annoying

i dont have to explain myself to you or anyone i appreciate and respect you enough to try

my predictions at times last year on wins etc.. failed

i am not going to change though

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

wanting to add on petry im being serious 100% here id take carle for duration of his contract over petry

the kid has done nothing id be scared of 3 years at over 4 million with him from my views of his game

might wind up with more offense then carle but everything else imho petry so far is failing in

id take nestea right now over him moving forward seriously think all around nestea will be better or as good offensively as good as petry and overall defense nestea will be the better player so 5.5 is about the biggest over payment of a guy you could ask to see in nhl montreal better hope he improves his game in leaps and bounds and at 27 i personally dont see it myself

i wanted petry for detroit so could push out smith whom i dislike a ton almost as much as dont like quincey see carle lol or kindl whom just is bad maybe worse then sustr lol with more years and a decent contract

detroit has kids though so think some of these names will move pretty quickly marchenko has huge upside ouellet is solid sproul can be very good offensively is others who are ok and at least upgrades today from kindl and some marchenko who can make a quincey expendable

maybe smith now that babcock is gone and will have a more open offense with new coach can be a decent d man he was never allowed to work on his strengths just dont see his strengths as that high as his faults

we got similar issues the good news is our young guys koekkoek and tony d have higher upsides or nestea then most of the detroit young guys even those who mentioned marchenko though is someone id kill to trade for myself he will be solid

anyway this is tampa board not toronto or babcock or detroit lol

i only say on detroit what others close to the team tells me is kinda like st louis to you todd is same as with tampa but i hear more on detroit then on tampa from good sources generally stevie keeps this team pretty dammed quiet lol

is annoying but know they know more then me they see everything not just what we see on the ice and that has an interesting perspective which we as fans miss and sometimes is why things happen ie: connolly trade where we do not get all details just sometimes a rumor which is unverafiable which im cool with

 

[Bolt32]

these guys put a lot of pressure on selves maybe more then the organization or even fans put on them we seem to take it all in stride letting them develop for the most part but drouin is like the next coming so if he fails or falls short will he bite the bullet and work at his craft till he delivers will he become like connolly whom bolt 32 a long time ago pointed out attitude problems and issues real ones with cooper?

time will tell my buddy caught that i disagreed on connolly but he was right and he called it a couple years ago and that is why imho connolly is gone as much as his failings to step up was an attitude thing couldnt take criticism etc..

I remember that Argument, was fun. Thanks for pumping my tires, pleasure reading those.

 

[Iceman]

The thing is, Ondrej is probably the guy who has to take the salary cut if he wants to stay around.

If Kucherov continue to improve and match Johnson's production then he will probably demand Johnson salary and rightfully so. If Ondrej plays the triplets card to get matching salary going forward, he will probably go, sadly.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I remember that Argument, was fun. Thanks for pumping my tires, pleasure reading those.

well you called it two seasons ago pointed out your points and highlights of it i said not a biggie is a kid they will let it slide

now i have thought more and with this marty situation etc..

stevie might seem this nice guy etc.. but he is hall of famer one of most respected people in hockey and will not put up with much imho now he will cut people for behavior etc.. for not fitting in for how they behave on and off the ice as we have seen how they conduct selves etc..

is nice to have in ways but in others will maybe be some disappointment at times but one bad egg can destroy a team we witnessed a little of this with marty so I get it more and side with stevie

i worry on tony d i worry on drouin and others cause stevie is flat out all business when it concerns where this team is headed and imho that is a good thing but dangerous for guys like them or an erne etc..

key is do not step out of line do not get too big for your britches your always under a microscope here we proved that with some moves some character questions of partying etc..

obviously we are not being an fsu type of program lol

hopefully these kids get it all the way and still have the fire needed to be applied when needed etc..

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

The thing is, Ondrej is probably the guy who has to take the salary cut if he wants to stay around.

If Kucherov continue to improve and match Johnson's production then he will probably demand Johnson salary and rightfully so. If Ondrej plays the triplets card to get matching salary going forward, he will probably go, sadly.

well johnny can improve i think everyone sees that kucherov is probably passing both tyjo and drej

but drej does soo much that doesnt hit the scoring machine and still scores i do not think will be much of argument of him and tyjo salary being comparable moving forward myself

i think they will be paid similar cause know what drej brings is as important as the upside of tyjo on scoring goals etc...

if tyjo makes another leap then can see this conversation a million dollar difference right now i pay them relatively the same and move on myself

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

The thing is, Ondrej is probably the guy who has to take the salary cut if he wants to stay around.

If Kucherov continue to improve and match Johnson's production then he will probably demand Johnson salary and rightfully so. If Ondrej plays the triplets card to get matching salary going forward, he will probably go, sadly.

It may play out this way, but Palat is as important as anyone on this team... ignore my username.

 

[Bolt32]

well you called it two seasons ago pointed out your points and highlights of it i said not a biggie is a kid they will let it slide

now i have thought more and with this marty situation etc..

stevie might seem this nice guy etc.. but he is hall of famer one of most respected people in hockey and will not put up with much imho now he will cut people for behavior etc.. for not fitting in for how they behave on and off the ice as we have seen how they conduct selves etc..

is nice to have in ways but in others will maybe be some disappointment at times but one bad egg can destroy a team we witnessed a little of this with marty so I get it more and side with stevie

i worry on tony d i worry on drouin and others cause stevie is flat out all business when it concerns where this team is headed and imho that is a good thing but dangerous for guys like them or an erne etc..

key is do not step out of line do not get too big for your britches your always under a microscope here we proved that with some moves some character questions of partying etc..

obviously we are not being an fsu type of program lol

hopefully these kids get it all the way and still have the fire needed to be applied when needed etc..

Well I wouldn't say Attitude is end all be all for Yzerman. You can have a sour attitude and still be an effective player for us. If not then Tony Deangelo and Erne would have never been drafted. I think the one key is though. Whether the kid is a hot head or someone who is so chill-lax he should be a perennial lady bing trophy winner. At the end of the day the most important thing is willing to buy into the system, and take pride in putting on the Jersey. Two things I had severe doubts (As we argued about.) that Connolly ever did.

 

[Todd1a]

I think people can see how important Tyler Johnson is to palat and kucherov. What did that line do after Johnson got hurt ?

 

[Bolt32]

I think people can see how important Tyler Johnson is to palat and kucherov. What did that line do after Johnson got hurt ?

To be fair, when Johnson went down in the middle of the season for a few weeks Namensikov stepped right in as a Replacement for Johnson and the line didn't look like it missed a beat.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I think people can see how important Tyler Johnson is to palat and kucherov. What did that line do after Johnson got hurt ?

the line still did ok had chances every game didnt finish as much as would like but can give some of that to crawford flat out having the best series of his life

healthy all three do they get a point a game sure

do we win? not sure but think it favored us to win the cup since all were close games if get that goal a game get others happier more excited think the balance shifts to us

yet chicago was no joke so i give them credit just we are not going to sleep on this and think the next time we will be much better

do i expect two goals a game from triplets no maybe in time but a goal sure yet a goal with tied games primarily does not make it a slam dunk

so we still have room for improvement think this team fell into a trap like we were in at one time with stamkos

where big plays by others didnt spark us as much as did triplet plays

so a little adversity in regards to losing and growing and learning from it should go a long way in the future

p.s.

who is to say we get the goal a game we dont go to overtime and the big cats from chicago dont win? i wouldnt bet against them i believed we had a shot a good one but at the end of the day crawford and that d outplayed us even though we had our chances they did what they had to in order to win

i will not make the tyjo excuse cause am unsure that was enough to warrant us losing

we played a great team not a good team a team who knows how to win when the chips are down the whole playoffs we had questions we came out of this a hell of a lot better but theres still improvements to make and a lot to take in and grow from being the youngest team or one of them etc.. most times you got to learn how to lose to climb the ladder i think we did that i think we are improved because of it hungrier because of it

we got a shot now for a long time but still have to work harder then we ever have had to in order to win the cup it will never just be a cakewalk no matter what but we are now on the map so is up to the whole organization to sacrifice and do all that is necessary to take that next step i hope is next year or this year but we got it to do.

i think we have the best team organization at this point in hockey but will be more hurdles more adversity

 

[Todd1a]

To be fair, when Johnson went down in the middle of the season for a few weeks Namensikov stepped right in as a Replacement for Johnson and the line didn't look like it missed a beat.

if that was the case you had a healthy vladdy waiting for the finals that did not play ?

 

[Todd1a]

the line still did ok had chances every game didnt finish as much as would like but can give some of that to crawford flat out having the best series of his life

healthy all three do they get a point a game sure

do we win? not sure but think it favored us to win the cup since all were close games if get that goal a game get others happier more excited think the balance shifts to us

yet chicago was no joke so i give them credit just we are not going to sleep on this and think the next time we will be much better

do i expect two goals a game from triplets no maybe in time but a goal sure yet a goal with tied games primarily does not make it a slam dunk

so we still have room for improvement think this team fell into a trap like we were in at one time with stamkos

where big plays by others didnt spark us as much as did triplet plays

so a little adversity in regards to losing and growing and learning from it should go a long way in the future

p.s.

who is to say we get the goal a game we dont go to overtime and the big cats from chicago dont win? i wouldnt bet against them i believed we had a shot a good one but at the end of the day crawford and that d outplayed us even though we had our chances they did what they had to in order to win

i will not make the tyjo excuse cause am unsure that was enough to warrant us losing

we played a great team not a good team a team who knows how to win when the chips are down the whole playoffs we had questions we came out of this a hell of a lot better but theres still improvements to make and a lot to take in and grow from being the youngest team or one of them etc.. most times you got to learn how to lose to climb the ladder i think we did that i think we are improved because of it hungrier because of it

we got a shot now for a long time but still have to work harder then we ever have had to in order to win the cup it will never just be a cakewalk no matter what but we are now on the map so is up to the whole organization to sacrifice and do all that is necessary to take that next step i hope is next year or this year but we got it to do.

i think we have the best team organization at this point in hockey but will be more hurdles more adversity

Ya but what team that has lost the Stanley cup finals has got back and won during the cap era ? I fear we blew our one shot at the cup with this core of guys. I don't think we get a cup with garrison, carle and Coburn on defense! we have to do it with koekoek and other kids. one thing yzerman has not done is draft a nhl top 4 defenseman yet. yzerman has had to burn a lot of cap dollars on stralman, garrison, Coburn and carle to fill those holes. Besides koekkoek and Anthony d are those the only two guys we have that could crack a top four defenseman spot one day ? matt spencer ? Hedman is our only top six defenseman drafted on this team by us. that has to start changing in the coming years if we are going to compete for cups. Don't give me the 300 games nhl defenseman rule there are young defenseman making a impact for nhl teams now. Seth jones, adam larrson, Jacob trouba, maatta, and morgan rielly to name some. don't give me we signed sustr excuse we don't know what he will become yet he has two years to show us. Is it time to trade a drouin or a vladdy for a young up coming defenseman ?

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

well you called it two seasons ago pointed out your points and highlights of it i said not a biggie is a kid they will let it slide

now i have thought more and with this marty situation etc..

stevie might seem this nice guy etc.. but he is hall of famer one of most respected people in hockey and will not put up with much imho now he will cut people for behavior etc.. for not fitting in for how they behave on and off the ice as we have seen how they conduct selves etc..

is nice to have in ways but in others will maybe be some disappointment at times but one bad egg can destroy a team we witnessed a little of this with marty so I get it more and side with stevie

i worry on tony d i worry on drouin and others cause stevie is flat out all business when it concerns where this team is headed and imho that is a good thing but dangerous for guys like them or an erne etc..

key is do not step out of line do not get too big for your britches your always under a microscope here we proved that with some moves some character questions of partying etc..

obviously we are not being an fsu type of program lol

hopefully these kids get it all the way and still have the fire needed to be applied when needed etc..

It's also not Stevie's locker room. I'm sure he'll step in if it can't be figured out between the coaching staff and the leadership in the room, but otherwise, as he often says, he lets his people do their thing.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Ya but what team that has lost the Stanley cup finals has got back and won during the cap era ? I fear we blew our one shot at the cup with this core of guys. I don't think we get a cup with garrison, carle and Coburn on defense! we have to do it with koekoek and other kids. one thing yzerman has not done is draft a nhl top 4 defenseman yet. yzerman has had to burn a lot of cap dollars on stralman, garrison, Coburn and carle to fill those holes. Besides koekkoek and Anthony d are those the only two guys we have that could crack a top four defenseman spot one day ? matt spencer ? Hedman is our only top six defenseman drafted on this team by us. that has to start changing in the coming years if we are going to compete for cups. Don't give me the 300 games nhl defenseman rule there are young defenseman making a impact for nhl teams now. Seth jones, adam larrson, Jacob trouba, maatta, and morgan rielly to name some. don't give me we signed sustr excuse we don't know what he will become yet he has two years to show us. Is it time to trade a drouin or a vladdy for a young up coming defenseman ?

no cause we came two wins of winning the cup and everyone is under contract

yes we had vladdy but cooper played tyjo to his credit tyler johnson was not the reason we lost the cup imho he played very well and kept down toews and kane when was on the ice

defensively we played well enough to win we are an opportunistic scoring team and we failed to get crawford in a hole is that simple id play them right now for sure with the changes and feel pretty solid in our shot

you being a st louis fan understand how hard it is to beat toews and kane one more year I think we can do it myself that year makes a big difference i love the condra pick up think that will really show up think the kids being older time to hmmmm evaluate the good and bad will make all the difference i expect us to win the presidents cup next year myself and be favorite to win the cup

giving slater 24 minutes a game in ahl is right choice if we can do that showcase nesterov for now let him work on his offense protect him etc..

hopefully we slide sustr down as nesterov rises

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

do i make a trade for karlsson or your boy in st louis if it comes up yes but otherwise let tony d and coco puff grow a year

 

[Todd1a]

for the record carle and coburn have lost two cups to the hawks now

 

[Todd1a]

do i make a trade for karlsson or your boy in st louis if it comes up yes but otherwise let tony d and coco puff grow a year

I really don't think shattenkirk is on the market unless stevie blows them away with a offer. if we could land shattenkirk then i'd be good moving carle out and letting coburn walk in fa. I think they would want a proven top six forward a good prospect and a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

 

[Bolt32]

if that was the case you had a healthy vladdy waiting for the finals that did not play ?

There is a talent Gap between Vlad and Johnson. I'm not denying that. If Namensikov hits his absolute ceiling (Which I doubt he will.) he will be a middle of the pack if not below average number 1 center. More than likely he will be a bottom 6/top 6 tweener. Least that is my impression.

With that said. When Namensikov did step in for Johnson during his injury the TKO line was still dominate. It was almost as if Johnson didn't really matter. Is that really the case? No, not even close. Just pointing out. That regardless of what anyone thinks. That line while is the most dominate line in the NHL isn't reliant on just one guy alone. It is a unit as a whole. There is no one player that is the golden prize on there. They all contribute and all of them are at an extreme elite level.

The fact that Names could show up in the middle of that line and continue it up, least in my mind doesn't speak volumes about Names. It speaks Volumes about how much chemistry that the three have all together.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

To be fair, when Johnson went down in the middle of the season for a few weeks Namensikov stepped right in as a Replacement for Johnson and the line didn't look like it missed a beat.

Is that a joke or... because Vladdy isn't TJ and there is a big gap

 

[Todd1a]

Is that a joke or... because Vladdy isn't TJ and there is a big gap

 

[Bolt32]

Is that a joke or... because Vladdy isn't TJ and there is a big gap

Look at the two or three weeks Johnson was out. Vlad did fill in quite admirably and performed very well. The triplet line didn't seem like it missed a step. Johnson>>>>Vlad all day and everyday. Saying that line just stopped working because Johnson was out and we used a inferior center in his stead is being blind to be polite.

 

[Sky04]

There is a talent Gap between Vlad and Johnson. I'm not denying that. If Namensikov hits his absolute ceiling (Which I doubt he will.) he will be a middle of the pack if not below average number 1 center. More than likely he will be a bottom 6/top 6 tweener. Least that is my impression.

With that said. When Namensikov did step in for Johnson during his injury the TKO line was still dominate. It was almost as if Johnson didn't really matter. Is that really the case? No, not even close. Just pointing out. That regardless of what anyone thinks. That line while is the most dominate line in the NHL isn't reliant on just one guy alone. It is a unit as a whole. There is no one player that is the golden prize on there. They all contribute and all of them are at an extreme elite level.

The fact that Names could show up in the middle of that line and continue it up, least in my mind doesn't speak volumes about Names. It speaks Volumes about how much chemistry that the three have all together.

This, the other 2 were able to get hot at the right time to cover up for the loss of Johnson, Namestnikov is still far from a top-6 player, he really isn't even close to replacing Filppula at the moment. At this point, he's much more expendable than Filppula regardless of his cap, the level in play is too wide.

Cap casualties are in this order IMO, Carle, Callahan, Garrison, Filppula, Bishop. Carle is obvious, Callahan has too much cost and term, not to mention is playoff performances are heavily underwhelming. Garrison and Filppula are great in their roles, solid term, solid cost, and provide excellent versatility, shouldn't be moved unless there is a replacement completely ready.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

This, the other 2 were able to get hot at the right time to cover up for the loss of Johnson, Namestnikov is still far from a top-6 player, he really isn't even close to replacing Filppula at the moment. At this point, he's much more expendable than Filppula regardless of his cap, the level in play is too wide.

Cap casualties are in this order IMO, Carle, Callahan, Garrison, Filppula, Bishop. Carle is obvious, Callahan has too much cost and term, not to mention is playoff performances are heavily underwhelming. Garrison and Filppula are great in their roles, solid term, solid cost, and provide excellent versatility, shouldn't be moved unless there is a replacement completely ready.

We can't even think about moving Callahan while in the same room with him for several years, nevermind actually bringing up the possibility.