Salary Cap: Roster going forward (Or: How the cap is coming to kill us)
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Volodya Krutov
Lost Cosmonaut
- Jan 18, 2012
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What did Palat lack was PP production, at 5v5 he truly had an elite season.
The huge difference between the triplets and Tarasenko though is that VT is the face of the franchise in St.Louis and arguably the most gifted goal scorer in the NHL. The better comparison for VT would be Stamkos. Of course Stamkos will get more money due to a longer and better track record but both belong in the franchise player discussion. If the triplets want franchise players money it won't be in Tampa, SFY just can't afford it. I think these 3 kids are smart enough to understand what made them so effective this year, it's firstly their insane chemistry. I think they'll get paid but we could be pleasantly surprised. We'll see.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
- 29,202
- 18,367
What did Palat lack was PP production, at 5v5 he truly had an elite season.
The huge difference between the triplets and Tarasenko though is that VT is the face of the franchise in St.Louis and arguably the most gifted goal scorer in the NHL. The better comparison for VT would be Stamkos. Of course Stamkos will get more money due to a longer and better track record but both belong in the franchise player discussion. If the triplets want franchise players money it won't be in Tampa, SFY just can't afford it. I think these 3 kids are smart enough to understand what made them so effective this year, it's firstly their insane chemistry. I think they'll get paid but we could be pleasantly surprised. We'll see.
Yeah this, Tarasenko is better than any of them individually, he got paid similar to Stamkos's last deal and wouldn't surprise me if he put up similar numbers to Stamkos did minus the 60 goal season.
Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
what is our core moving forward?
stamkos hedman triplets bishop
x
x
x
x
x where do we rank these guys on who when if we want we should move them? etc...
whose ready to take next steps how far out to take a spot as needed cheaper etc..?
who fits in where on our youth id love to hear opinions and observations on you all
who watched peca in camp is the kid ready? etc.. where do we see this kid playing is he top six or bust etc..??
feed back please
maybe someone can put up a poll each player number one guy we keep etc.. on down the list?
we can debate when they are ready or should be the kids what we see as our team as expansion hits and yes know this is a couple at least years off
stamkos hedman triplets bishop
x
x
x
x
x where do we rank these guys on who when if we want we should move them? etc...
whose ready to take next steps how far out to take a spot as needed cheaper etc..?
who fits in where on our youth id love to hear opinions and observations on you all
who watched peca in camp is the kid ready? etc.. where do we see this kid playing is he top six or bust etc..??
feed back please
maybe someone can put up a poll each player number one guy we keep etc.. on down the list?
we can debate when they are ready or should be the kids what we see as our team as expansion hits and yes know this is a couple at least years off
IMO, we say screw the bridge deal for Kucherov and lock him up for 4+ years. He's got one good year, and I don't think that year, as good as it was, ends with us getting taken to the cleaners. I do, however think he's arguably the 4th most important player in that group. This is contingent upon us making a move on his contract immediately after Stamkos is signed (#1 organizational priority and all) or at least before we get to next July and he throws a 30+ goal season on the heap.
Stamkos is a foregone conclusion at this point, I think. Vinik wants him signed, Yzerman wants him signed, Stamkos probably wants to sign, casual and hardcore fans alike want him signed, etc. Everyone wants this guy to be one of our franchise players. At this point, all we can do is speculate as to whether he leaves money on the table and, if so, how much.
Hedman is right after or perhaps (given his playoff showing) less-obviously more important organizationally than Stamkos (if that makes sense). He hasn't won the defenseman-equivalent hardware that Stamkos has, but he's absolutely essential to our backend now and going forward and we have another (barely arguably) better center behind Stamkos.
As for Johnson and Palat, if neither wants to leave money on the table, you keep Johnson and thank Drej for his services (but never forget about him). I don't think his upside is as high as Kucherov, and I think his game is heavy enough to potentially wear him down in the long run (whereas, like Marty, Johnson's game hopefully doesn't). Hopefully, they want to play together and competitively enough to keep their prices modest (not counting on it).
Bishop I think we're going to have to learn to live without eventually. We're moving too much potentially quality goaltending through an already defensively sound system to carry a near-6-or-more cap hit any longer than his current contract (barring unforeseen player moves).
T1
1. Hedman (no replacement in pipeline - irreplaceable)
2. Triplets (best line in hockey and best value in hockey - irreplaceable)
3. Stammer (...2nd line right winger?)
4. Bishop (replacement already in pipeline)
T2 - skilled elite pipeline w/ skill set which is hard to replicate
1. Drouin
2. DeAngelo
3. Vasilevskiy
*somewhere between T1 and T3 there should be a spot for Stralman - elite possession monster great #2 with ability to lead a pair of his own. No replacement in the pipeline with his type of skill set as of yet. DeAngelo would have to improve on his own defensive end by a wide margin to get there.
T3
1. Killorn - replacement Erne
2. Callahan - replacement Stephens
3. Filppula - replacement Namestnikov/Point/Peca
4. Garrison - replacement Koekkoek
5. Coburn - replacement Sustr (short term) Spencer/McCloud/Blujus/Dotchin (long term)
T4
1. Boyle - replacement Paquette
2. Brown - replacement Ikonen/Gourde/Vermin/Marchessault
3. Carle - replacement Nesterov...Masin
With regards to Peca. He looked great in camp. He'll get a chance to be #1C in Syracuse next season. Will know more soon.
1. Hedman (no replacement in pipeline - irreplaceable)
2. Triplets (best line in hockey and best value in hockey - irreplaceable)
3. Stammer (...2nd line right winger?)
4. Bishop (replacement already in pipeline)
T2 - skilled elite pipeline w/ skill set which is hard to replicate
1. Drouin
2. DeAngelo
3. Vasilevskiy
*somewhere between T1 and T3 there should be a spot for Stralman - elite possession monster great #2 with ability to lead a pair of his own. No replacement in the pipeline with his type of skill set as of yet. DeAngelo would have to improve on his own defensive end by a wide margin to get there.
T3
1. Killorn - replacement Erne
2. Callahan - replacement Stephens
3. Filppula - replacement Namestnikov/Point/Peca
4. Garrison - replacement Koekkoek
5. Coburn - replacement Sustr (short term) Spencer/McCloud/Blujus/Dotchin (long term)
T4
1. Boyle - replacement Paquette
2. Brown - replacement Ikonen/Gourde/Vermin/Marchessault
3. Carle - replacement Nesterov...Masin
With regards to Peca. He looked great in camp. He'll get a chance to be #1C in Syracuse next season. Will know more soon.
The Gongshow
Fire JBB
^^^ Good layout.
We basically have our core of TKO + Stamkos + Hedman (You can argue Ben because he's helped a lot over the last 2 seasons)
Our future core revolves around Drouin + DeAngelo + Vasi (You can possibly put Koekkoe in there as well since he should be a solid 2nd pair man)
Other key players that will probably stick around are
- Stralman (He's been fantastic, definitely should keep him around)
- Callahan (He's been solid, needed a little more at times. His contract also makes him stick around for a while)
- Killorn (Solid player that keeps improving. Absolute beast in the playoffs)
- Fippula (I see him sticking around until we absolutely need his cap. He's a good center, the young centers still have quite a bit of developing to do)
All of the "Key" players have replacements in wake. Basically every couple of years the new flock comes in taking over certain spots in the future. Yzerman has done wonders for the teams prospects/players.
Absolutely can't wait for (Just to name a few...)
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Drouin - Stamkos - Erne
Hedman - Stralman
Koekoe - DeAngelo
Vasi
I'm drooling..
We basically have our core of TKO + Stamkos + Hedman (You can argue Ben because he's helped a lot over the last 2 seasons)
Our future core revolves around Drouin + DeAngelo + Vasi (You can possibly put Koekkoe in there as well since he should be a solid 2nd pair man)
Other key players that will probably stick around are
- Stralman (He's been fantastic, definitely should keep him around)
- Callahan (He's been solid, needed a little more at times. His contract also makes him stick around for a while)
- Killorn (Solid player that keeps improving. Absolute beast in the playoffs)
- Fippula (I see him sticking around until we absolutely need his cap. He's a good center, the young centers still have quite a bit of developing to do)
All of the "Key" players have replacements in wake. Basically every couple of years the new flock comes in taking over certain spots in the future. Yzerman has done wonders for the teams prospects/players.
Absolutely can't wait for (Just to name a few...)
Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Drouin - Stamkos - Erne
Hedman - Stralman
Koekoe - DeAngelo
Vasi
I'm drooling..
Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
T1
1. Hedman (no replacement in pipeline - irreplaceable)
2. Triplets (best line in hockey and best value in hockey - irreplaceable)
3. Stammer (...2nd line right winger?)
4. Bishop (replacement already in pipeline)
T2 - skilled elite pipeline w/ skill set which is hard to replicate
1. Drouin
2. DeAngelo
3. Vasilevskiy
*somewhere between T1 and T3 there should be a spot for Stralman - elite possession monster great #2 with ability to lead a pair of his own. No replacement in the pipeline with his type of skill set as of yet. DeAngelo would have to improve on his own defensive end by a wide margin to get there.
T3
1. Killorn - replacement Erne
2. Callahan - replacement Stephens
3. Filppula - replacement Namestnikov/Point/Peca
4. Garrison - replacement Koekkoek
5. Coburn - replacement Sustr (short term) Spencer/McCloud/Blujus/Dotchin (long term)
T4
1. Boyle - replacement Paquette
2. Brown - replacement Ikonen/Gourde/Vermin/Marchessault
3. Carle - replacement Nesterov...Masin
With regards to Peca. He looked great in camp. He'll get a chance to be #1C in Syracuse next season. Will know more soon.
does he play like tyjo ?? vision is he a passer or shooter i know he goes deep to dirty areas just really limited on him just always he gets results diamond in the rough to me
what did you think of stephens masin and spencer in camp??
Peca is TyJo on the offensive end. Peca is not TyJo on the defensive end - yet. You notice Peca as soon as he gets on the ice...he is everywhere - very smart game. However, Peca doesn't have the top end speed that TyJo has...but has similar acceleration and maybe a tad bit more shiftiness to his game. Has vision, IQ, handles...really the kid is real solid. Peca (at the same stage in development) might have a better finishing touch around the net. And still pretty fearless in dirty areas for smaller guy. Now it is yet to be seen who Peca will be lined up with in Syracuse. At the end of the season Peca was lined up with Ashton and Ikonen/Gourde ... this is not exactly Palat/Panik. So there are some synergies/chemistry that needs to be worked out. Will need higher IQ guys on his line to put up the stats people want to see. Maybe Erne/Peca/Gourde...could be a special line. I'm real high on Peca as you can tell...saw him at end of season in Syracuse - he was impressive.
I've seen Stephens at the U18 tournament with Canada, at the CHL prospects game and at camp. I don't see the wrecking ball type that is Callahan. I see a solid smart kid with all the tools. Does not have the top end speed (no TyJo/Brown here) probably T2 speed like Kuch/Palat...and has functional speed, meaning he plays fast and can do all the required skating, stoping/accelerating, shifting, dekes, etc all while going at full speed. He is willing to body up and finish his checks. Smart hockey IQ ... in the right position and always aware of his defensive positioning. See more of a playmaker than a finisher but one of those excellent complementary pieces that a line has to have. Unless you are looking for him...he is tough to spot on the ice. He relies more on the angles, smart positioning, and smart play than the highlight reel hit, deke through traffic, and overpowering oppononent off the puck, aggressive style. Has the skating you would expect from a 1st round pick. Real solid pick...comparable wouldn't say Callahan. Imagine the smart play and positioning of Filp, combined with like Palat in willingness to body up and finish check, and playmaking like Vladdy, finishing like Filp as well. You don't really have like a superstar right...you have like a solid, can do everything well, smart hockey player. Speed Tier 2, Puck Handling T2, Hockey IQ T1, physicality T2...not a sexy pick but a very solid one. Now that I had time to look at his game I really like this kid. Because he has such a good hockey IQ...he'll be able to put it together.
Spencer...I like him better than Blujus, Masin, Dotchin. You guys are going to love this kid. Big and heavy on his skates. He can move too...has a bit of Koekkoek in him. Bigger frame than Koekkoek so he'll be a bit heavier but similar size. When I first got to camp...thought what is Koekkoek doing here? Just very similar...maybe not as fast but heavier on his skates and more physical. Has a very simple straight forward kind of game. Seals off real well and I like his passing. Tape to tape just likes to get it out quick - nothing fancy. Transitions to back pedaling very smoothly...kid can skate for sure. Moves around the ice really really well. What I didn't notice was his shot...so not sure if he has a big booming slapper which of course would be awesome if he had one. Probably not since his point totals were not great. I can see him being a solid second pairing guy...more of a defensive defenseman than a two way defenseman like Koekkoek. From watching the other defenseman in the system...I think this kid has more second pairing in him than the others.
Masin did not participate when I was there...still rehabilitating from fractured orbital bone on his face. Wanted to see if he had put on a few lbs of muscle. Masin probably around 185, Koekkoek & Blujus around 195, and I'd say Spencer closer to 205...all 6'2". Yzerman and Company like those Garrison type body frames...filling out around 215 but athletic, strong, good skating...and just solid passers with good hockey IQ.
Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
thank you wolf hadnt really saw a lot on spencer so is good stuff stephens i loved think he plays to me like sheahan in detroit and thats a valuable style to me for your third line forward/center
i thought he was solid in what have seen all over i caught some spencer and masin clips but that is all and was pretty happy with his play i also dont know if he can run a power play and have slater because of slaters skating on another level
i am not happy with blujus yet but like him and think masin passes him overall from what can gather online think blujus is gonna be like barbs one day and we wind up moving cause of better options
i for one was very happy with this draft class like the new kids and diffeerent elements they all bring now is up to our coaching to get them to that next level
very happy with imama etc.. hoping yan can be special
really like your so high on peca he seems solid and ready to reach that next level so is nice to know he will have his shot and we have him for injuries etc..
yzerman is doing a commendable job in having solutions as we move forward pretty stoked for the season both ahl and nhl first year think ahl we can actually compete last year with new goalies i thought that would be problem and lack of high end scoring and it really was the goaltending was good enough and d was ok at times now is upgraded a bit so d should be better offense should be there we might make some damage
excited for syracuse they have been really patient during this process so hope we can get far this year and make them happy finally
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Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
We better have solutions because in two years we will be in cap hell. We wasted a lot of years with stamkos on a good contract. Now we need Elc to come in and replace Killorn and kucherov one day. Johnson is the most important triplet to keep. When he broke his wrist the triplets were done. Hope Erne, peca and koekkoek can come in and make a impact in the NHL.
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Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
gonna predict early he stays with bolts forever just throwing it out there but im more sure of him then i would be of stamkos and think stamkos retires a bolt
two guys think most likely to be lifers are hedman and kucherov
I think SFY has earned the trust that he has a plan and is already planning things a lot more in the future than any posters here. Yes, there will be some tough choices, but I think they will be a lot less painful than many of you think, and the returns for those that do go will keep the the pipe filled.
It is the difference between a club chess player and a Grand Master. The first will a see few moves ahead on a static board, where the latter looks at all the possibilities at every move, many moves ahead.
In the words of HGTG: Don't Panic!
It is the difference between a club chess player and a Grand Master. The first will a see few moves ahead on a static board, where the latter looks at all the possibilities at every move, many moves ahead.
In the words of HGTG: Don't Panic!
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,421
- 7,155
I think it was a huge step for the team to make it to the cup finals. The credibility and respect factor really grew. The players on this team and others know this is a first class organization. That is almost as important as the amount of money you are making. Depending on who you talk to. Maybe I'm wrong but I think most players want to win #1 and have a huge contract 2. At least even matched. But when your on a team filled with talent it's tough to make that happen for everybody.
I think I have faith in SY to build a roster that is not only deep enough to replace guys if they get injured but also if they have to leave via FA or trade. Obviously your not always going to get the same kind of player to replace the guy your losing but I think SY will do a good job replacing guys. I don't want to lose guys anymore than other people on here but I think we will be ok if we have to.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
How can you
Say that maybe yzerman trades kucherov next summer? In a good deal for us see saad 2.0
Lord Stan 2020
Elite fan
simply for all kinds of reasons why he came here how he seeked out stevie the respect factor etc..
think tyjo and palat stay too all are happy everyone takes discounts to be at top foreve
just my opinion but kucherov in everything he has said money is not the concern think he takes a little more then the nyquist deal think tyjo palat do the same hedman seems a lifer and stamkos takes a decent contract and we fit the other pieces as needed
i am close to if not kucherovs biggest fan on here maybe bolt 32 is as close i watch everytime he talks or does anything i can its not about the money to him is about being the greatest those types do what it takes to stay on top
hes in a perfect situation he aint going no where
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
Nooooo why did you predict this now we lose all 5! Your Babcock and petry predictions were way wrong. Your on a prediction losing streak bro. Now kucherov goes to the caps! Johnson and palat sign together in buffalo! And only Hedman and stamkos stay in Tampa bay with Matt carle.
Bolt32
Registered User
as much as this made me
I actually have to agree with Robert on Kucherov. Kid isn't going any where unless we force him out. From everything I have gathered on the situation. Hes an Introvert, sounds like a very big one.
He has some of his best friends on the team, which also seems like they will be able to carve themselves out as core if not impact players for us long term In Nesterov and Vasi.
When he was drafted reports came flooding through that he specifically approached Yzerman and told him he wanted to play in the NHL. When everything prior to that was labeling him as KHL only.
Long story short. He isn't going to cripple himself financially staying with us, but he will make a sweet heart deal (My prediction.). He has found a comfort level with us, and he more or less drafted us as much as we drafted him. Only way he is leaving is if he gets pushed out.
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,421
- 7,155
Well if we can keep Stamkos, Hedman, the triplets, one of Bishop or Vasi and Drouin you can build around those guys and have a solid chance at a cup every season. I hope these guys know how special it could be if they don't take the richer road. But that is a tough sell.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
Most pick the money yzerman will have his hands full well see. Guys tend to go for the most money.
Look Up
Don't be a scan tool
- Oct 3, 2013
- 1,331
- 1,285
as much as this made me
Hes an Introvert, sounds like a very big one.
He has some of his best friends on the team, which also seems like they will be able to carve themselves out as core if not impact players for us long term In Nesterov and Vasi.
When he was drafted reports came flooding through that he specifically approached Yzerman and told him he wanted to play in the NHL. When everything prior to that was labeling him as KHL only.
Long story short. He isn't going to cripple himself financially staying with us, but he will make a sweet heart deal (My prediction.). He has found a comfort level with us, and he more or less drafted us as much as we drafted him. Only way he is leaving is if he gets pushed out.
Good points bolt32.
There is also a Russian speaking population of around 12-15 thousand in the Tampa/Clearwater/St Pete area. If Kucherov gets homesick and needs a dose of home, he has outlets where he can be among Russian speakers if he chooses.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
The Gongshow
Fire JBB
I agree with this, we could be a contender for a few years, our window is wide open. Better take advantage. Look what Chicago was able to do with their core. 3/6!!!! Thats friggen fantastic.
