Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVIII:

[bobbop]

If you claim that the time to trade him is now, then you have to have an idea of what the return needs to be. So what is a Gaborik return and a first look like?

The Gaborik deal brought Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and a 6th rounder. You want a third liner, second line center whose career has never taken off, a 7th defenseman and a first round pick in return for a 24 year old defenseman who was netting 60 points?

In the unlikely event that DeAngelo is traded, the last thing I want in return is a basket of cookies. The only, only acceptable return is a first line player signed for several years. Think William Nylander or reasonable facsimile.

 

[bobbop]

I don’t think that moving DeAngelo to the left side will work. He is not the partner Trouba needs to have his value maximized.

I’m less concerned about a strong right side than most. DeAngelo gets big ice time on the first power play unit, Fox and Trouba pair up on the second unit with Trouba filling the Stepan role. Quinn also pairs up Fox and De Angelo when trailing late in the game and also in 4 on 4 situations.

Skeji wasn’t moved simply because of salary. He didn’t play well enough to be part of the core moving forward. IMO, we will look back on that trade as one of Gordon’s best moves. Skeji was awful in Carolina.

 

[Ola]

What are you talking about? Gorton specifically targeted him and Quinn invested a lot of time and effort into him. Where do you see ANY evidence that the front office does not think he is "worthy?

And while you are at it, please explain the math as to how they should have signed him a long term deal this past year.

The math is really simple on how to give TDA a long term deal last season. We could have moved Namestnikov for a cheaper return than a 3rd, even given him away or last hand attached a lower pick to him. If that wasn’t possible, we could have bought out Smith and or Staal. We could have traded Skjei sooner.

Gorton had all kind of flexibility.

Also, I referred to the old farts around the team. I was thinking about Maloney, Brooks and co. They are always bring up very significant buts and ifs about TDA. Like he is some mega cancer. Some will say that Quinn has bumped heads with TDA. But all I know is that he has done the same with a bunch of players on the team.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Between the Shattenkirk buyout, Smith, Stahl, and Hank's contracts, we have over $24.6 million dollars coming off the books after next season. I think GMJG can find a way to sign ADA long term, and still have the flexibility to address other player contracts over the next few seasons.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Between the Shattenkirk buyout, Smith, Stahl, and Hank's contracts, we have over $24.6 million dollars coming off the books after next season. I think GMJG can find a way to sign ADA long term, and still have the flexibility to address other player contracts over the next few seasons.

15 years

 

[Leetch3]

thats a crazy stat...according to larry brooks, kreider will be the first forward drafted by the rangers that were still with the team at age 30 since jan erixon (drafted in 1981)

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Between the Shattenkirk buyout, Smith, Stahl, and Hank's contracts, we have over $24.6 million dollars coming off the books after next season. I think GMJG can find a way to sign ADA long term, and still have the flexibility to address other player contracts over the next few seasons.

I truly believe we haven't seen cap space in so long, that we actually can't process it properly.

The ADA trade talk has me in Vietnam flashback mode.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

To be fair, we don't know how the question was asked.

Like it could have phrased "assuming every goalie in the NHL except Carey Price has died of Covid-19, who is the best goalie in the league?"

Ya, or 45% of the players they polled were Canadiens

 

[True Blue]

The math is really simple on how to give TDA a long term deal last season. We could have moved Namestnikov for a cheaper return than a 3rd, even given him away or last hand attached a lower pick to him. If that wasn’t possible, we could have bought out Smith and or Staal. We could have traded Skjei sooner.

Gorton had all kind of flexibility.

Also, I referred to the old farts around the team. I was thinking about Maloney, Brooks and co. They are always bring up very significant buts and ifs about TDA. Like he is some mega cancer. Some will say that Quinn has bumped heads with TDA. But all I know is that he has done the same with a bunch of players on the team.

Moving Nametsnikov did not magically open up the room to instantly sign DeAngelo. It did however give them a bit of roster flexibility. Buying out Smith or Staal last year was not really feasible as due to the dead cap space that would have been taken on next year. And if you have moved Staal who else was going to play on the left side? As poorly as he played, it is not like Hajek or Rykov showed that they were NHL ready last year.

They were not going to move Skjei until he showed that he was not really going to be a part of the core going forward.

So no, he has no flexibility.

As for Quinn, DeAngelo has thrived under him. Holding players accountable is not really the same thing as bumping heads with him. Look at the role he has under him now.

 

[True Blue]

Kid's breaking records in the 3rd best league in the world, I don't think we're overrating him.

3rd best league in the world is FAR from them NHL.

 

[True Blue]

Any benefit Tony has from matchups and assignments is negated by playing with Staal.

I have heard this view before. That is actually not an accurate statement in av vacuum. Whether or not he was playing with Staal does not change that he received favorable matchups. That seems to imply that the matchups are even. They are not. His numbers would be much worse if his matchups were less favorable.

Again, my view of him is that it is far easier to find him a defensive minded partner that it is to find another DeAngelo.

 

[True Blue]

Any benefit Tony has from matchups and assignments is negated by playing with Staal.

I have heard this view before. That is actually not an accurate statement in av vacuum. Whether or not he was playing with Staal does not change that he received favorable matchups. That seems to imply that the matchups are even. They are not. His numbers would be much worse if his matchups were less favorable.

Again, my view of him is that it is far easier to find him a defensive minded partner that it is to find another DeAngelo.

 

[True Blue]

In the unlikely event that DeAngelo is traded, the last thing I want in return is a basket of cookies. The only, only acceptable return is a first line player signed for several years. Think William Nylander or reasonable facsimile.

Believe it or not, I would want someone better. A 60 point defenseman is worth more than a 60 point forward.

Again, I am not sure of how many good matches there are. Do they really need another center if Strome has shown that he is more than capable of playing with Panarin?

If (BIG IF) he is to be traded, it may well be for Trouba's partner. Though I actually think that is what Lundkvist will eventually be a part of a package for.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Larry has been on a KreiderBomb like crusade to trade DeAngelo.

I dont wanna trade DeAngelo....I dont wanna give him a big long term contract, there is a difference.

 

[gravey9]

thats a crazy stat...according to larry brooks, kreider will be the first forward drafted by the rangers that were still with the team at age 30 since jan erixon (drafted in 1981)

BOTH #20s!

 

[True Blue]

I dont wanna trade DeAngelo....I dont wanna give him a big long term contract, there is a difference.

What is your solution? Offer him a two year bridge deal and have him go UFA after?

 

[haveandare]

For the love of god just play someone on the other side. Right side is stacked, left side is bare. People talk like it’s so impossible but many, many teams don’t have a perfect balance of 3 righties and 3 lefties. It’s not some unthinkable obstacle.

 

[True Blue]

For the love of god just play someone on the other side. Right side is stacked, left side is bare. People talk like it’s so impossible but many, many teams don’t have a perfect balance of 3 righties and 3 lefties. It’s not some unthinkable obstacle.

The amount of people who have successfully switched sides is not large. And there is also absolutely no indication that this is something that the Rangers are considering.

 

[aufheben]

For the love of god just play someone on the other side. Right side is stacked, left side is bare. People talk like it’s so impossible but many, many teams don’t have a perfect balance of 3 righties and 3 lefties. It’s not some unthinkable obstacle.

This. Vegas for example plays 5 lefties.

I have heard this view before. That is actually not an accurate statement in av vacuum. Whether or not he was playing with Staal does not change that he received favorable matchups. That seems to imply that the matchups are even. They are not. His numbers would be much worse if his matchups were less favorable.

Again, my view of him is that it is far easier to find him a defensive minded partner that it is to find another DeAngelo.

Teammates have an even greater effect than competition.

 

[effen]

What is your solution? Offer him a two year bridge deal and have him go UFA after?

Rangers have 3 more years of his rights assuming they qualify him.

 

[True Blue]

Teammates have an even greater effect than competition.

But that does not at all change that his performance would still suffer were not for the friendliest minutes

 

[True Blue]

Rangers have 3 more years of his rights assuming they qualify him.

Wasn't he an RFA this year? So wouldn't that mean that after this year, he would have two years? Or am I wrong about that?

 

[effen]

Wasn't he an RFA this year? So wouldn't that mean that after this year, he would have two years? Or am I wrong about that?

its 7 years itl as far as I know and he's only had 4.

 

[Ola]

Moving Nametsnikov did not magically open up the room to instantly sign DeAngelo. It did however give them a bit of roster flexibility. Buying out Smith or Staal last year was not really feasible as due to the dead cap space that would have been taken on next year. And if you have moved Staal who else was going to play on the left side? As poorly as he played, it is not like Hajek or Rykov showed that they were NHL ready last year.

They were not going to move Skjei until he showed that he was not really going to be a part of the core going forward.

So no, he has no flexibility.

As for Quinn, DeAngelo has thrived under him. Holding players accountable is not really the same thing as bumping heads with him. Look at the role he has under him now.

Hm, I don’t follow? Namestnikov made 4m per. Getting rid of him would have been significant.

And what do you mean with “dead cap space”? Smith was and is 100% dead cap space. If we buy him out he is only 66% dead cap space.

Lastly, resigning TDA this summer instead of last will certainly cost us more for a lot longer time than any Smith/Staal buy-out.

I don’t think this really is debatable. Gorton could easily have created the space to resign TDA last summer, stating anything else is just not in touch with reality...

 

[haveandare]

The amount of people who have successfully switched sides is not large. And there is also absolutely no indication that this is something that the Rangers are considering.

Unless the league maintains equal lefties and righties, there has to be many guys playing their offside. I’m not saying they’re considering it I’m saying it’s by far the simplest solution.