Salary Cap: Roster-Building thread XXXIII | Something is rotten in the state of Ohio

[Zen Arcade]

But we did miss out on Parise.

Are you trying to outsarcasm my sarcasm?

 

[Michael8771*]

Are you trying to outsarcasm my sarcasm?

It's certainly possible, I wouldn't put it past me.

 

[Zen Arcade]

So is there a reason people want Cam Atkinson, aside from the fact that he plays somewhere else?

 

[KIRK]

But we did miss out on Parise.

That was his point.

 

[Michael8771*]

That was his point.

Yes Kirk, I know.

Sorry guys, getting a little silly here at 340am.

 

[KIRK]

I live here and they're trying hard to market Folingo after signing him to a big deal. He's a fan favorite, Columbus hates Pitt more than any other team, and they need all the fans they can get.

The price would be absurd to bring him to the Pens.

I can't imagine why they'd trade Foligno. Could Jarmo sell a massive overpayment if the thing that makes the deal an overpayment were more of a future, even one of Pouliot's ilk? Or, put another way, in your mind, what would qualify as (a) absurd from Jarmo's perspective and (b) as something JR could live with?

I can't imagine why the Pens would send Botterill, then Clancey, and now tonight Fitzie AND MacKinnon to scout Columbus so close to the TDL even for Atkinson unless they absolutely have nothing even potentially bigger under any consideration.

Hartnell for Kunitz? Saves cap space, opens up a lot of space they're going to need as all of those kids come up for extensions. I could see that being sold as one of those 'we hate to do it but . . .' type of things. And, I could see the evaluation of Hartnell being sufficient reason to attract all those Pens heavy hitters to scout.

The more we keep going around, my gut says it's Hartnell.

 

[KIRK]

Yes Kirk, I know.

Sorry guys, getting a little silly here at 340am.

I'm awake, alert, and intoxicated at 18:42.

 

[billybudd]

So is there a reason people want Cam Atkinson, aside from the fact that he plays somewhere else?

Had 20 goals one time and would obviously be a 40 goal guy with 71.

I actually like Atkinson. If the other team has a left d with bad gap control, it's just chance after chance after chance with him.

But not here, not now and not in a top six.

 

[Boocock]

What if they're just scouting Columbus heavily to give other teams the impression that they're still seeking a winger? It could lower the price in another negotiation.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Had 20 goals one time and would obviously be a 40 goal guy with 71.

I actually like Atkinson. If the other team has a left d with bad gap control, it's just chance after chance after chance with him.

But not here, not now and not in a top six.

Right, he's not a bad player or anything, he just not what this team needs with the way it's currently constructed.

If the Pens had a big 3rd line and needed a quick, shifty guy to complement it, then sure.

 

[KIRK]

Had 20 goals one time and would obviously be a 40 goal guy with 71.

I actually like Atkinson. If the other team has a left d with bad gap control, it's just chance after chance after chance with him.

But not here, not now and not in a top six.

Billy, what's your read on this?

Botterill, Fitzie, Clancey, and MacKinnon all scouting the Blue Jackets within 100 hours of the deadline.

Just Atkinson or even TestTube? Maybe Leopold as a vet defensive rental?

An inconceivable blockbuster for Folingo?

I keep going back to Jiggy's guess of Hartnell and Kunitz being what happens IF something happens (and, as I wrote in the last thread, even with all of this scouting, 9+ times out of 10, nothing comes of it in the end).

Any thoughts? Just seems odd . . . all those heavy hitters unless something big potentially is up.

 

[KIRK]

Right, he's not a bad player or anything, he just not what this team needs with the way it's currently constructed.

If the Pens had a big 3rd line and needed a quick, shifty guy to complement it, then sure.

Winnik-Sutter-Atkinson?

Not top six, obviously, but I just don't see all the heavy hitters for a L3 RW so close to the deadline unless JR is aiming small at this point.

What if they're just scouting Columbus heavily to give other teams the impression that they're still seeking a winger? It could lower the price in another negotiation.

I don't follow. Is the price for a Petry going to be lower because of this? It's a sellers market for defensemen.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Winnik-Sutter-Atkinson?

Not top six, obviously, but I just don't see all the heavy hitters for a L3 RW so close to the deadline unless JR is aiming small at this point.

I meant two more physical guys than Winnik and Sutter, Winnik fits the description of a guy that's going go into the the dirty areas and win board battles, Sutter doesn't. I just don't see a fit at the moment. Sadly, Atkinson plays bigger than Sutter, but he still has physical limitations based on his size.

 

[Boocock]

I don't follow. Is the price for a Petry going to be lower because of this? It's a sellers market for defensemen.

Wingers, not defensemen. And yes, it's a tactic. Make the other side believe there's another possible seller (in this case, the Jackets and Foligno) to lower the price.

 

[KIRK]

I meant two more physical guys than Winnik and Sutter, Winnik fits the description of a guy that's going go into the the dirty areas and win board battles, Sutter doesn't. I just don't see a fit at the moment.

That would be the fit. Speed, finishing, tenacity. Add that to what Winnik adds on the other wing, and it's a nice complementary tandem in theory for Sutter.

Look, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't see all that attention for Atkinson as a potential L3 RW unless there Pens have nothing else even remotely possible going on.

My guts says JR is up to something. Whether it comes to fruition is a different story.

If you think about it, this kind of jibes with JR's latest comments about it being most likely that the Pens stand pat. This thing with Columbus we're discussing, even if it's Hartnell . . . even with all that scouting and even if talks are beyond the preliminary stage, a deal doesn't happen far more often than it does.

Wingers, not defensemen. And yes, it's a tactic. Make the other side believe there's another possible seller (in this case, the Jackets and Foligno) to lower the price.

Columbus has all the leverage here. If they're willing to move him, then it's for a certain value of overpayment. And, they're not going to lower that if Pittsburgh says 'well, we'll just pay a little less for someone else'.

 

[Michael8771*]

Isn't it possible we were looking at Bernier? I know we've been heavily scouting Devils games also, and not just for Jagr. In fact from what I gather we weren't overly serious in getting him.

 

[KIRK]

Isn't it possible we were looking at Bernier? I know we've been heavily scouting Devils games also, and not just for Jagr. In fact from what I gather we weren't overly serious in getting him.

If memory serves, we fully skipped a Devils game about a week ago. Nobody was there.

I'd prefer Bernier to Adams or even Downie. I'm just not sure JR et al will see it being worth the price.

 

[Boocock]

Columbus has all the leverage here. If they're willing to move him, then it's for a certain value of overpayment. And, they're not going to lower that if Pittsburgh says 'well, we'll just pay a little less for someone else'.

The point is not to make a deal with Columbus. Rather, it's to make another seller who has been in contact with Pittsburgh believe that they are close to a deal. The fact that Columbus has leverage is irrelevant because they'd simply be used to create leverage with another seller.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I'm not sure Lamoriello would trade even a role player like Bernier within the division either.

The Devils haven't made a trade within the division in almost 5 years and that was just getting Trent Hunter for nothing from the Isles.

The last trade the Pens and Devils made was in 2002, Richer for a 7th.

 

[Michael8771*]

I'm not sure Lamoriello would trade even a role player like Bernier within the division either.

The Devils haven't made a trade within the division in almost 5 years and that was just getting Trent Hunter for nothing from the Isles.

The last trade the Pens and Devils made was in 2002, Richer for a 7th.

Maybe Bernier for a 5th rounder? I don't know, but I believe we have two fifths with the Yotes trade. With it being for a depth player like that I doubt he'd be reluctant in trading him here.

 

[KIRK]

The point is not to make a deal with Columbus. Rather, it's to make another seller who has been in contact with Pittsburgh believe that they are close to a deal. The fact that Columbus has leverage is irrelevant because they'd simply be used to create leverage with another seller.

Now that is an interesting angle. Not sure I'm buying, but it's not implausible.

Any thoughts as to who is selling a winger with term who can work with Malkin for a few years?

Anyway, I threw the background on this on the main board and added some thoughts to see if someone from the outside might offer a perspective that hasn't made it into our discussions here.

 

[KIRK]

I'm not sure Lamoriello would trade even a role player like Bernier within the division either.

The Devils haven't made a trade within the division in almost 5 years and that was just getting Trent Hunter for nothing from the Isles.

The last trade the Pens and Devils made was in 2002, Richer for a 7th.

We traded Richer to them for the playoffs, yes?

When is the last time the Devils actually traded a player, even an impending UFA, to anyone within the division?

 

[Michael8771*]

We traded Richer to them for the playoffs, yes?

When is the last time the Devils actually traded a player, even an impending UFA, to anyone within the division?

They're due.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Maybe Bernier for a 5th rounder? I don't know, but I believe we have two fifths with the Yotes trade. With it being for a depth player like that I doubt he'd be reluctant in trading him here.

I wouldn't hate it, where would he play, though? I don't know that he plays over any of Winnik, Spaling, Bennett or Downie. He's a guy I'd maybe look at in the offseason when we have a clearer picture of what the bottom six may look like going forward. He's a UFA, and you're probably not looking at any more than 700-800k.

 

[KIRK]

I wouldn't hate it, where would he play, though? I don't know that he plays over any of Winnik, Spaling, Bennett or Downie. He's a guy I'd maybe look at in the offseason when we have a clearer picture of what the bottom six may look like going forward. He's a UFA, and you're probably not looking at any more than 700-800k.

Bernier would be your L4 RW, and I don't see them spending any assets with Adams there for what they may or may not see as the upgrade.