Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIII: 33rd thread twds the line of dead

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm trading Kreider for assets to move up in this year's draft. I'm also, by doing so, retaining flexibility for future cap moves over keeping a player that I project will eventually (2-3 years into a 7 year deal) be on my third line.



Well, assuming the Rangers would do what I'd do (trade Kreider, and probably also Georgiev and maybe another piece or two like Skjei and Fast, but keep Buch and Strome on shorter deals)....

I'd be projecting next year ('20-'21) that they are a playoff team but not a contender, with Chytil and Kakko taking a substantial steps forward (40 points and more consistency overall?), Kravtsov probably warranting a call up to the big club, and Buch, Strome, and the rookie ("unspecified prospect") adding enough, combined with improvements in defense and a full year of Shesterkin.

The following year ('21-'22) it's probably more of the same as Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov and the unspecified prospect remain maturing, Zibanejad and Panarin probably at their peaks, but losses of Staal, Smith, Lundqvist, etc, leave us more talented and without the baggage of those old players, but also low on experience.

But then I would think the following year ('22-'23), when you've got 21 year old Kakko, 22 year old Kravtsov, 23 year old Chytil, 31 year old Panarin, 29 year old Zibanejad, and a D+3 unspecified prospect, plus a defensive core of 24 year old Fox, 29 year old Trouba, 27 year old DeAngelo, probably Miller, Lundkvist, Robertson, up with the club by this point, you have a contending team if not a team that's a favorite to win.

As we move from '22-'23 towards, say, '25-'26, Panarin and Zbad are gonna drop off. At this point, it's pointless to have projected a with literally ANY degree of accuracy a roster composition, but the HOPE would be, you still have a core of 24-25 year old Kakko, 25-26 year old Kravtsov, 26-27 year old Chytil, and this highly drafted unspecified prospect from the 2020 draft that are forming the core of a top-6 that is still lethal, also perhaps supplemented with other players we've drafted since then.

The most important takeaway is, if Kakko is an 80-pointish player, but Chytil and Kravtsov are only like 60 point players, their spots on the top 2 lines are well deserved, but it's not really enough. You still need one more 60-70-80 point player there to likely have a deadly top-6.

I just don't see how they're a playoff team next season after getting rid of everyone you want to get rid of. And you're expecting a lot out of a rookie and a kid who can't even score consistently in the AHL.

 

[Zibanejbread]

We need to make these roster building threads live threads with the rate we're flying through them.

 

[EpicDing]

We need to make these roster building threads live threads with the rate we're flying through them.

Almost exactly 24 hours on this one, impressive.

I know we can do better though, there hasn't been nearly enough panic yet.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't know if that is the case with NHL GMs. I know the Boston/Anaheim trade weakens our position but sometimes you need to move on from a trade. If Gorton trades Kreider for a less than ideal package, then he also runs the risk of other GMs trying to fleece him in future trades. I hope this makes sense in message board text but Gorton also has to be careful that he doesn't get the reputation of getting less than market value for the player.

I don't think this trade hinders any future trade with Boston.

I don't think it weakens anything at all.

I'd agree if this were a 2 horse race. It isn't.

 

[Vitto79]

AVS will get an old ufa back up . Clearly they like Francouz

 

[rangers1314]

We need to make these roster building threads live threads with the rate we're flying through them.

I can wait until Monday starting around 2pm when it crashes.

 

[BB88]

So lets say the aforementioned is correct and B's wanted RW over LW. Does that mean everyone else that said Boston was all in on Kreider were all hacks? I mean, literally nearly every source said Boston.

Boston has Palmieri at 1, Kreider at 2.

Backes move clears up space for Palmieri.

 

[17futurecap]

Honestly, if it meant getting a sweetener for Kreider from the Caps, take back Jensen.

He's a guy you can do a lot with in the summer, not making a lot of money, can retain on a trade, and throw in a mid-level pick if you have to.

Also, someone teams can use that have to leave a d-man open for Seattle to choose.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Almost exactly 24 hours on this one, impressive.

I know we can do better though, there hasn't been nearly enough panic yet.

If Jeff would throw us a bone and do something minor we’d be going through these threads like hot cakes

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Exactly. You don’t hand out massive contracts to Panarin and Trouba if you don’t plan on compete for another 3-4 years

Even if they do, that doesn't mean that they have to hand out a bad contract.

It's like people want to see whats happening now with our deadweight repeat itself

 

[NYRangers0723]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

maybe. I love Fast but he is due for a raise too so I think he is gone

 

[rangers1314]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

Fast goes Sunday
CK and a trade of some minor leaguer looking for a "fresh start" (Boo) both get announced at 4 on Monday.

 

[mike14]

If Jeff would throw us a bone and do something minor we’d be going through these threads like hot cakes

Come on now, it doesn't get any more minor than Berube...

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Come on now, it doesn't get any more minor than Berube...

Old news brother

 

[NYRangers0723]

Even if they do, that doesn't mean that they have to hand out a bad contract.

It's like people want to see whats happening now with our deadweight repeat itself

Dude I was the biggest supporter of the rebuild so I’m not In that camp. I’ve said plenty of times in regards to Kreider that there is a limit. I think 6 years 6.25-6.5 is fair and the maximum I would go. I guess I have much more faith in this team and feel we are further along than anticipated

 

[Thirty One]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

You think it will be that ... swift?

 

[Harbour Dog]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

I'm guessing Edmonton for a 2nd + Conditional 3rd.

 

[mas0764]

I just don't see how they're a playoff team next season after getting rid of everyone you want to get rid of. And you're expecting a lot out of a rookie and a kid who can't even score consistently in the AHL.

Who is everyone? I've said Kreider, and then Georgiev (supplanted as starter by Shesterkin, and Lundqvist still available as backup), and Fast (bottom sixer). I said Kakko takes a step forward, and that's not exactly some wild prognostication. All I said from about Kravtsov is that I'd expect he gets a call up. We are close to the playoffs literally right now. I think you're dramatically overestimating what Kreider means to this team. This team is highly driven by Panarin and Zibanejad.

But if we don't make the playoffs, and I'm wrong in that assumption, I'm also saying: So what?

The playoffs are coming with this core, even as is, sooner rather than later. If Kakko, Chytil, and Kravtsov aren't ready to chip in enough next year to make up for Kreider's loss, well, then they will most likely reach that level the following year.

The way more important thing than making the playoffs this year or the year after would be, securing another sure-fire top 6 forward. So if I gamble that the kids are ready next year, and they aren't, well, just add one more year to the estimate. If we aren't contenders in '22-'23 with 21 year old Kakko, then call it contenders in '23-'24 with 22 year old Kakko, etc.

It's not important that this team make the playoffs last year, this year, or next year. It has been proven time and again that rebuilding teams take 2, 3, 4, even 7 years missing the playoffs before they have hit on enough impact players to fuel a rebuild.

So far, we've been wildly successful in trading for players (Fox, Trouba), signing free agents (Panarin), and appearing to hit on draft picks (Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko, Miller, Lundkvist, Shesterkin) that we are on the cusp of exiting the rebuild already - just TWO years in. If the talent isn't ready next year, it will be soon thereafter, there is no need to worry about an endless rebuild where we waste the primes of these players being Edmonton or Buffalo.

But we DO have to worry about wasting the primes of these players by having "not quite enough to get over the hump." To that end.... well, just read what I've posted. We've only been at this two years. We've completely overhauled the D for now and the future, and we've found another franchise goalie. But what we haven't done is insulate ourselves in top 6 forwards and depth forwards, we are scarily thin in that department. If ANYTHING happened to Chytil, or Kravtsov, or god forbid Kakko, we have a massive weakness with replacing that production. There simply are not enough quality forwards in our system.

I'm willing to sacrifice Kreider and this season to get that one (or two) more pieces to ensure that '21 and '22 and thereafter are all great.

 

[JimmyG89]

The Hawks top players were their young guys. Kane. Toews. Seabrook. Keith. The Hawks had their veteran players too. Sharp was 27-28. Their young guys were the lead dogs on that team. People look at the Hawks and say the playoff experience was good for them. The Hawks had their team in place by 08-09. The team which won the Cup in 09-10 had 17-18 players who played on the 08-09 team. They swapped out Havlat for Hossa in the summer of 09. The Rangers are still a work in progress. The older players are leading the team. Maybe I am still f*cked up in the head but I thought the younger guys would be leading the Rangers resurgence like the Hawks.

Here is that Hawks team: 2009-10 Chicago Blackhawks Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Most of their "young guys" were between the ages of 23 and 26. Those are this team's impact VETS. Kane and Toews were 21, and Toews was turning 22. Our younger players are still 2-3 years from being those ages.

We're not in that position yet and it's not because we don't have good young players, it's because these guys are mostly rookies or 2nd year players.

Give me a break with the young guys needing to lead the resurgence at this moment, they're actually getting adjusted to being in the NHL. Toews was in college his D+1 season. Kakko is in the NHL. Our guys are professional players. Kravtsov was in the KHL his D+1 season, a better league than the NCAA. Chytil played in the AHL and got NHL games in his D+1 year, and he did quite well.

Everyone thinking it was going to be the kids running the show are not informed enough on the process of building a team. Kane is an exception to the rule. Kids don't normally come in and do that kind of stuff. Future HOFer and possibly the best US player ever.

It's not the same build as the Hawks. They sucked for years on end, weren't even on TV and they couldn't fill the stands handing out tickets.

Keeping Kreider isn't going to stop those kids from continued development and helping usher in that kind of success, in fact keeping him around can help those guys when it comes to their 1st postseason game and being a successful player in the playoffs. If that is closer that further away, having that is what we need next season and the year after that to let these guys get in those games and understand where they need to go in order to succeed.

 

[rangers1314]

I'm guessing Edmonton for a 2nd + Conditional 3rd.

I think Philly ponies up. 2021 3rd and Isaac Ratcliffe

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Who is everyone? I've said Kreider, and then Georgiev (supplanted as starter by Shesterkin, and Lundqvist still available as backup), and Fast (bottom sixer). I said Kakko takes a step forward, and that's not exactly some wild prognostication. All I said from about Kravtsov is that I'd expect he gets a call up. We are close to the playoffs literally right now. I think you're dramatically overestimating what Kreider means to this team. This team is highly driven by Panarin and Zibanejad.

But if we don't make the playoffs, and I'm wrong in that assumption, I'm also saying: So what?

The playoffs are coming with this core, even as is, sooner rather than later. If Kakko, Chytil, and Kravtsov aren't ready to chip in enough next year to make up for Kreider's loss, well, then they will most likely reach that level the following year.

The way more important thing than making the playoffs this year or the year after would be, securing another sure-fire top 6 forward. So if I gamble that the kids are ready next year, and they aren't, well, just add one more year to the estimate. If we aren't contenders in '22-'23 with 21 year old Kakko, then call it contenders in '23-'24 with 22 year old Kakko, etc.

It's not important that this team make the playoffs last year, this year, or next year. It has been proven time and again that rebuilding teams take 2, 3, 4, even 7 years missing the playoffs before they have hit on enough impact players to fuel a rebuild.

So far, we've been wildly successful in trading for players (Fox, Trouba), signing free agents (Panarin), and appearing to hit on draft picks (Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko, Miller, Lundkvist, Shesterkin) that we are on the cusp of exiting the rebuild already. If the talent isn't ready next year, it will be soon thereafter, there is no need to worry about an endless rebuild where we waste the primes of these players being Edmonton or Buffalo.

But we DO have to worry about wasting the primes of these players by having "not quite enough to get over the hump." To that end.... well, just read what I've posted.

I'm willing to sacrifice Kreider and this season to get that one (or two) more pieces to ensure that '21 and '22 and thereafter are all great.

You forgot to mention your "other piece or two" Skjei and Fast. One guy playing with Panarin and Strome and the other is the team's top LD. You keep changing what you're saying, man. You said you expect them to make the playoffs next year and now you're saying you it's not important. I'm gonna tap out of this one. I'm rooting for your plan to come together in another 3-4 years.

 

[Fitzy]

Honestly, if it meant getting a sweetener for Kreider from the Caps, take back Jensen.

He's a guy you can do a lot with in the summer, not making a lot of money, can retain on a trade, and throw in a mid-level pick if you have to.

Also, someone teams can use that have to leave a d-man open for Seattle to choose.

It's a big sweetener. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of us paying our 7th defenseman 2.5 million a year for many years.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I think Fast goes between now and tomorrow night.

They traded him yesterday? Where have you been?

 

[NYRangers0723]

There are a lot of things to take into account. If we had a much worse record in the standing then yeah by all means sell off again. But it’s obvious our team is much closer. Hell if Igor was here all season we are in the playoffs right now. Look I wanted to rebuild in 2016 when everybody else wanted to still go for it. I loved what we did in 2018-19 deadlines. I was even prepared to do the same thing this year but things have changed and this team is much ahead of schedule. Also when you lose certain players it’s easier to replace them but others is much tougher. CK is unique is what he brings and is tough to find. Does that mean we should give him what he wants? Of course not but it does show that a Gorton is hesitant to get rid of him otherwise I think he would be gone already. Let’s be honest NOBODY is giving us what we want especially with Boston dropping out. If anything Colorado has even more leverage now to get CK on the cheap.