Salary Cap: Roster-Building thread XXXII : Can we Clarkson Scuderi?

[Michael8771*]

Yeah, I just see this as wishful thinking, you can never say never, but some of these ''ideas'' seem farfetched.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Hartnell's contract is complete trash. He's 32; he's played a physically rigorous game and has never been a good skater. He's already slowing down and only going to get worse. Picture Kunitz with more physicality but worse skating.

He's signed an additional 4 years (through 2018-19) for $4.75 million. Kunitz at least only has $3.85 million cap hit and is only signed two more years after this one.

Kunitz > Hartnell

I also don't see anyway CBJ that struggles with offense trades N Foligno unless for huge overpayment - Bennett + KK + Despres + high pick neighborhood.

To be honest, outside of a few pieces that CBJ won't trade (Jenner, Johansen) I don't really see anything that the Pens should be interested in enough to send in higher management. The bigger contracts - JJ, Wiz - aren't good enough players, and the decent players - Atkinson, Letestu - have small contracts that shouldn't need that much oversight.

I really hope its not Wiz or Jack Johnson.

I'm curious. How come?
Pens could use a guy like them with term cuz Martin and Erhoff are probably walking at the end of the year.

Maata-Letang
Despres(Pouliot)-Wiz
Scuderi-Pouliot(Despres)

Maata-Letang
Despres(Pouliot)-JJ
Scuderi-Pouliot(Despres)

 

[pensfan71]

I'm curious. How come?

Cause money. But if its JJ....I'd be happy

 

[Hottubber]

Cause money. But if its JJ....I'd be happy

JJ is definitely suspect in his own end but 4.3 for 3 more years is definitely manageable. He also would add some physicality to the back end. Be nice to shed Scuds plus in a deal for him

 

[WayneSid9987]

Cause money. But if its JJ....I'd be happy

Well the Pens are gonna need a second pairing guy next year regardless, even if they land a Wiz or JJ or not. Why not go after one of them that has term instead of paying a Sekera or Martin or Erhoff, for instance, 5.5-6M? (Although Wiz is already locked up for 5.5)

 

[Michael8771*]

JJ is definitely suspect in his own end but 4.3 for 3 more years is definitely manageable. He also would add some physicality to the back end. Be nice to shed Scuds plus in a deal for him

And how are we gonna fit him under the cap?

 

[pensfan71]

JJ is definitely suspect in his own end but 4.3 for 3 more years is definitely manageable. He also would add some physicality to the back end. Be nice to shed Scuds plus in a deal for him

Well the Pens are gonna need a second pairing guy next year regardless, even if they land a Wiz or JJ or not. Why not go after one of them that has term instead of paying a Sekera or Martin or Erhoff, for instance, 5.5-6M? (Although Wiz is already locked up for 5.5)

JJ is pretty bad in his own end from what I remember. But good god do we need physicality. Wiz is not worth 5.5....he's a good PP QB but we I just don't think he offers enough to warrant a 5.5M contract

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If the Pens care as much about analytics as they say, JJ will not be coming here.

Also, we don't need a PP QB, especially with what CBJ has. Wiz and JJ are not upgrades over Letang, Martin, Pouliot or Ehrhoff.

If we really interested in a PP QB then they would be going after Yandle.

 

[Hottubber]

And how are we gonna fit him under the cap?

No idea. I'm sure JR has some guys that he has and is targeting that he would move players/salary out for. Kunitz, Scuds, Sutter all make 3+ mil and can be swapped out and replaced internally.

 

[Michael8771*]

If the Pens care as much about analytics as they say, JJ will not be coming here.

Also, we don't need a PP QB, especially with what CBJ has. Wiz and JJ are not upgrades over Letang, Martin, Pouliot or Ehrhoff.

If we really interested in a PP QB then they would be going after Yandle.

Just out of curiosity where are you coming up with this stuff? I'm not saying you're out to lunch here, and yeah it'd be exciting if something were brewing. But what makes you think any of this is realistic?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Just out of curiosity where are you coming up with this stuff? I'm not saying you're out to lunch here, and yeah it'd be exciting if something were brewing. But what makes you think any of this is realistic?

Any of what? I'm not saying any of it's realistic. I was commenting on what people posted before me said.

 

[Michael8771*]

Any of what? I'm not saying any of it's realistic. I was commenting on what people posted before me said.

Oh, never mind then.

Sorry, I came home around 1030 I believe and saw people talking about Foligno and such. Wasn't here for the beginning of that discussion I guess..

 

[drpepper]

I'm curious. How come?
Pens could use a guy like them with term cuz Martin and Erhoff are probably walking at the end of the year.

Maata-Letang
Despres(Pouliot)-Wiz
Scuderi-Pouliot(Despres)

Maata-Letang
Despres(Pouliot)-JJ
Scuderi-Pouliot(Despres)

I have no problem with the Pens signing a veteran defenseman in the off-season (reasonable contract for a reasonable player). But I don't like the idea of giving up assets (prospects, young players or picks) in trading for one especially when its in division and the Pens have little leverage. I think the cost for either of them will be prohibitively expensive. I also don't like the cap moves to make the contracts fit for the TDL. I don't think moving a forward for a defenseman makes sense at this point nor is moving Scuderi likely.

I am also not a big fan of either as a defender. Jack Johnson is more physical but tends to underperform with tough assignments. Wisniewski plays protected minutes (low quality of competition, high offensive zone starts) but seems to do well with them. Contract-wise Johnson has the better cap hit but longer term ($4,357,143 for the next three years versus $5.5 million for another 2 years).

 

[OnMyOwn]

I wouldn't mind JJ but I don't know how his $ would fit. I'm not sure who else I would even want from CBJ.

Odds are they're scouting, but it would be nice to see an interesting deal happen.

 

[Captain Hook]

I can't imagine they're just scouting for a game. They're rolling their scouting VIP's in there and scouting this team like it's a Stanley Cup finals opponent. That level of scouting just doesn't make sense since it's just a regular season game against a likely non playoff team.

Nothing may come of it but they must be looking at somebody. We won't know until late Sunday or even Monday though since teams are highly unlikely to trade players before a game against each other.

 

[TNT87]

Oh the reason they would get JJ is because he's friends with Crosby.

 

[deakka]

Looking at how much Vermette cost im afraid to make another trade tbh.

What we should do is move one of Harrington/Dumoulin for a forward prospect of the same value and situation. Rattie Nemenstikov etc.

They could fight for a spot in the lineup.
But worst case it would add depth if a forward goes down. Since they can be send to the AHL without waivers and we still have them for next year.

 

[KIRK]

According to TIOPS and in this instance I agree, not much should be made about us scouting over there. It's described here:

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/s...al-deal-for-chris-kunitz-simon-despres/71219/

That would be perfectly logical except for one thing. Less than 48 hours before the trade deadline, and Fitzgerald and MacKinnon are doing ordinary 'scouting' of the Blue Jackets, on the heels of Botterill and Clancey doing an 'ordinary' scouting of them.

These are the organizations four heaviest hitters in terms of scouting players in person. The only 'ordinary' thing they're doing 2-4 days before the trade deadline is scouting their biggest trade targets.

Whether that's a big name or a smaller name because the Pens aren't even considering anyone big, nothing about those four all having scouted the Blue Jackets in the last 48 hours or so is 'ordinary'.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I can't imagine they're just scouting for a game. They're rolling their scouting VIP's in there and scouting this team like it's a Stanley Cup finals opponent. That level of scouting just doesn't make sense since it's just a regular season game against a likely non playoff team.

Nothing may come of it but they must be looking at somebody. We won't know until late Sunday or even Monday though since teams are highly unlikely to trade players before a game against each other.

That's kind of how I see it. To my knowledge there have been guys within the Pens organization at Jackets games three times within the last week or so.

And like you said, they're not just any old scouts. Botterill was there a few games back, against the Habs we had our director of pro scouting in attendance, and tonight Fitzgerald was there with our director of player personnel.

You don't send high profile guys like that for a regular season game against an opponent like the Jackets.

It's just an odd situation. The players that make sense for us, don't make sense for the Jackets to trade. Maybe nothing comes of it, but they definitely have interest in someone.

 

[KIRK]

You don't send those type of scouts and AGMs and that many of them unless you are looking for something big. They must be looking for a collective Yes/No on something they're looking for or were offered in a deal. Atkinson, maybe? But why would you send everyone just to see him? He's a decent player but not special. TestTube? You already know what you have in him and he's not going to garner that much interest from a team to send all those guys. Hartnell? It's possible but still a lot of guys to send just for him. Foligno? Why would CBJ trade him unless Jarmo really wants KK and knows he has to knock the Pens socks off to get him. Wiz? Salary doesn't fit and we don't need a D like him. Anisimov? Pens seem really irritated with Sutter's game recently with JR making multiple comments about how much the Pens miss Staal. Anisimov just came back from injury and could be a reason why so many different people are checking him out to see if they think he can help for a playoff run. I dunno.

Lots of possibilities. If something does go down with CBJ, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a few guys going each way in a 2 for 2 or 2 for 3 type deal.

The only reason I can think of MacKinnon and Clancey to be scouting Atkinson is there's nothing bigger even remotely under consideration. I'd even get Fitzgerald under this scenario. But, Botterill too? How often does he even scout a game?

Tube and maybe Leopold fall into the same category.

Agree on your read on Wis.

Johnson? God I hope not . . .

Anisimov? Where's the fit. Insurance in case Sutter falters? I'm not committing to another superfluous third line center with another year on his deal, and I can't imagine the Pens doing that either.

I'm just trying to think it through, and it comes back to four possible explanations:

1. It's 'ordinary' scouting, which would make sense except if it were within say 100 hours of the trade deadline.

2. Atkinson or someone similar . . . again, yeah IF there's absolutely nothing even remotely possible in terms of a bigger name.

3. Hartnell . . . props to Jiggy for this suggestion. I see the logic there. One, you want to make sure he's still got game, because if that's the case, then Kunitz for Hartnell basically makes you better now and punts your Kunitz problem down the road 2-3 years. So, for the Pens, I get the appeal (especially JR, who I suspect isn't as concerned about 3 years from now as others). And, for Jarmo . . . lower cap hit, out from the deal two years sooner . . . between that and effectively having parlayed Umberger into Kunitz, I can see the appeal for him.

In this scenario, all four guys are there to evaluate if Hartnell has a good 2-3 years left in him.

4. Foligno . . . we often hear about how, with JR, once he gets fixated on a player, he really gets fixated. He wants his big deal that will turn the conference on his head AND set this team up for the remaining 2 years of his anticipated tenure, and he's prepared to pay a monster price in terms of what it means for after he goes.

In this scenario, the question is 'are we sure he's the guy for Geno', because if he is . . .

Look 9+ times out of 10, nothing comes of this. But, this speaks to me of JR looking for consensus and informed opinion among his key people as to a potential big move, which is why I think it's at least Hartnell we're talking about . . .

 

[pensfan71]

The only reason I can think of MacKinnon and Clancey to be scouting Atkinson is there's nothing bigger even remotely under consideration. I'd even get Fitzgerald under this scenario. But, Botterill too? How often does he even scout a game?

Tube and maybe Leopold fall into the same category.

Agree on your read on Wis.

Johnson? God I hope not . . .

Anisimov? Where's the fit. Insurance in case Sutter falters? I'm not committing to another superfluous third line center with another year on his deal, and I can't imagine the Pens doing that either.

I'm just trying to think it through, and it comes back to four possible explanations:

1. It's 'ordinary' scouting, which would make sense except if it were within say 100 hours of the trade deadline.

2. Atkinson or someone similar . . . again, yeah IF there's absolutely nothing even remotely possible in terms of a bigger name.

3. Hartnell . . . props to Jiggy for this suggestion. I see the logic there. One, you want to make sure he's still got game, because if that's the case, then Kunitz for Hartnell basically makes you better now and punts your Kunitz problem down the road 2-3 years. So, for the Pens, I get the appeal (especially JR, who I suspect isn't as concerned about 3 years from now as others). And, for Jarmo . . . lower cap hit, out from the deal two years sooner . . . between that and effectively having parlayed Umberger into Kunitz, I can see the appeal for him.

In this scenario, all four guys are there to evaluate if Hartnell has a good 2-3 years left in him.

4. Foligno . . . we often hear about how, with JR, once he gets fixated on a player, he really gets fixated. He wants his big deal that will turn the conference on his head AND set this team up for the remaining 2 years of his anticipated tenure, and he's prepared to pay a monster price in terms of what it means for after he goes.

In this scenario, the question is 'are we sure he's the guy for Geno', because if he is . . .

Look 9+ times out of 10, nothing comes of this. But, this speaks to me of JR looking for consensus and informed opinion among his key people as to a potential big move, which is why I think it's at least Hartnell we're talking about . . .

I would love to get Hartnell...we need that edge...putting together a Hartnell-Geno-Comeau line would be wonderful

 

[KIRK]

That's kind of how I see it. To my knowledge there have been guys within the Pens organization at Jackets games three times within the last week or so.

And like you said, they're not just any old scouts. Botterill was there a few games back, against the Habs we had our director of pro scouting in attendance, and tonight Fitzgerald was there with our director of player personnel.

You don't send high profile guys like that for a regular season game against an opponent like the Jackets.

It's just an odd situation. The players that make sense for us, don't make sense for the Jackets to trade. Maybe nothing comes of it, but they definitely have interest in someone.

Waffle, only two possibilities to me IF SOMETHING COMES TO FRUITION:

1. It's a Hartnell for Kunitz based deal. Maybe some other small pieces, but that's the crux of the deal. It's a big commitment, and I can see JR wants his key advisers all to see first hand where Hartnell's game is and if it's 2-3 years or not at all that they see the Kunitz style drop off coming.

2. JR is going for it. He loves Foligno. Thinks Foligno and Malkin will be a killer duo for the rest of his tenure and, with Perron-Sid-Horny, basically sets the Pens up for at least a few years. In this scenario, you want to know if your key advisers see the fit being as perfect as you do.

My issue is that I can see the first option from both teams' perspectives.

Scenario two, what gets your attention if you're Jarmo?

Kunitz has to be part of it for cap reasons. Kapanen obviously has to be part of it. But, what ADD gets your attention?

Despres or Dumo? Bennett? Even Harrington?

Maybe the '16 #1 is a part of it?

Any suggestion of a deal that you think JR could live with and would knock Jarmo's socks off?

I would love to get Hartnell...we need that edge...putting together a Hartnell-Geno-Comeau line would be wonderful

I think that's where this is headed. And, I do see in this scenario why those four names are going.

Does Hartnell have game and will it mesh with Malkin?

What's the downside (when, if at all, does Hartnell's game slip like Kunitz)?

 

[KIRK]

Oh the reason they would get JJ is because he's friends with Crosby.

Well, Sid is coach and GM of the team, so . . .

 

[Michael8771*]

That would be perfectly logical except for one thing. Less than 48 hours before the trade deadline, and Fitzgerald and MacKinnon are doing ordinary 'scouting' of the Blue Jackets, on the heels of Botterill and Clancey doing an 'ordinary' scouting of them.

These are the organizations four heaviest hitters in terms of scouting players in person. The only 'ordinary' thing they're doing 2-4 days before the trade deadline is scouting their biggest trade targets.

Whether that's a big name or a smaller name because the Pens aren't even considering anyone big, nothing about those four all having scouted the Blue Jackets in the last 48 hours or so is 'ordinary'.

I tend to believe it is ordinary actually. As far as their biggest trade targets I think Perron and Winnik fit that description. According to JR anyhow.

Again, who knows what's gonna happen, I'm just not gonna get my hopes up.

 

[KIRK]

My gut tells me they're looking at Wisniewski or Jack Johnson. Both can run a PP and one is Sid's best buddy. Leaning towards Wis cuz he's a righty which they need and he's being rumored to be shopped.

Don't forget that JR was willing to move money off the roster to land Franson.

I don't think JR and MJ are comfortable with 1)Letang running the PP and 2)that Pouliot will be able to run one in the playoffs his rookie year.

This is me just guessing of course. Or maybe they're the eastern team in on Yandle? Who knows.

It would make sense, but there's no deal for those two that works under the cap. JR going to move Kunitz or Sutter to add Wis or JJ? I don't see that.