Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVI: Dog Days Pending

[NickyFotiu]

Before this spins out into the atmosphere, let me suggest a little something more down to earth (not to say it isn't still ambitious)

Lets try to move Girardi, Staal, Nash, Glass

Lets try to keep our RFAs and Yandle

Lets try to add the RHS PPQB

Lets redevelop our bottom 6 from within

Something like:

Kreider/Stepan/Buchnevich
Miller/Brassard/Zuccarello
Klingberg/Lindberg/Hayes
Fast/Hrivik/Jensen

McDonagh/ RHS PPQB (Shattenkirk/Vatanen/Barrie/etc)
Yandle/Klein
Skjei/McIlrath

Lundqvist
Raanta

IF we can move Nash/Staal/Girardi/Glass (BIG IF) this is very doable.

That all is logical and doable but that top 6 will not win us any cups. As much as I like Yandle I do not know if investing in Yandle at 29 is a better move than investing in Stamkos at 26. Stamkos will be 3 mill more but he is a top 5 goal scorer. Getting a top 5 goal scorer at 26 as a UFA is extremely rare in the NHL.

 

[darko]

Brouwer will get a Clarkson like contract. Want nothing to do with him regardless.

This.

Stay the **** away.

 

[bernmeister]

We all love Zuc but the bottom line is he's not a true 1st liner. He's a tweener at times complimentary first liner or a really good second liner. He also has games or stretches where he disappears.

That being said, he's not untouchable but he's the type of player that if a GM spins the right way, can get a massive return. The problem with trading him of course is this team will lose just as much creativity and hockey IQ as they did with speed when Hagelin was dealt.

One player who is a HUGE wildcard next year is Boo Nieves. While I don't think anyone expects him to make the team out of camp, with a full off season to work out, being a little older, and having got a taste of the AHL during crunch time (and having a productive 8 games) he could be ready for third line duty sometime between December and after the All Star Break. His skill set (PP passer, speed for the PK) could really help the bottom six.

Nieves/Vessey/prospect acquired for Nash/Klein/Stepan etc. say Alex Tuch who is from Boo's neck of the woods as a young cost controlled third line can let this team spend money or make moves in other areas.

bold is spot on, I have been slow to include Boo in props and I am cautiously optimistic + at this point. Kudos for pointing him out.

The cheapest option to get Patrick Kane on the Rangers is to kidnap him, bride him for his cooperation, fake his death and put him into Witness Protection so he gets a whole new name and everything, and then "sign this pretty good player out of Free Agency named Katrick Pane to an ELC because it's his rookie NHL season."

biglaugh:
lucy, you just so ridiculous!

--------
re :

if a handful of you can't get that Kreider is the only potentially dominant skater (non netminder) we have, I can't help you

One proof that I'm right is AV keeps him on a leash, overchanges the line, etc., but when they are desperate in the playoffs, suddenly it's let Kreider be Kreider.

 

[Matz03]

If you are dumping all the assets ( not just the over 30 guys) that we have invested in that have paid off with 2 conference finals, a cup final, and a 101 point team I would like to know your timetable to get us back to the 101 point mark we were at this season. How many years will it take you?

I worry about my top line before my 4th line. I do what I can but put a priority on the near impossible players to obtain. I can find mediocre players on the cheap every season. Can you find a 26 year old Stamkos as a UFA every season?

I'm not sure where you got the idea about dumping assets from, I suggested signing some bargain bin guys to flip at the deadline for assets like picks or prospects. Realistically they need two offseasons to move all the bad contracts, Staal, Girardi, Glass. Moving on from Nash eventalually, mainly to sign D help and resign Rfa's. The core is still young but they need to add more skill throughout. They need D help bad. If you worry just about your top line, you'll be lucky to make the playoffs or get bounced quickly, look around, the 3rd and 4th lines end up being the difference makers in the end.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I'm not sure where you got the idea about dumping assets from, I suggested signing some bargain bin guys to flip at the deadline for assets like picks or prospects. Realistically they need two offseasons to move all the bad contracts, Staal, Girardi, Glass. Moving on from Nash eventalually, mainly to sign D help and resign Rfa's. The core is still young but they need to add more skill throughout. They need D help bad. If you worry just about your top line, you'll be lucky to make the playoffs or get bounced quickly, look around, the 3rd and 4th lines end up being the difference makers in the end.

I prioritize the first 2 lines. Those are the biggest difference makers that is why they get paid the most. If your priority is the bottom 6 don't plan on being in another conference finals or cup final.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

UA, putting Step on the wing would be a pretty bad idea, especially considering his skating ability, or lack thereof.

 

[Idlerlee]

bold is spot on, I have been slow to include Boo in props and I am cautiously optimistic + at this point. Kudos for pointing him out.




biglaugh:
lucy, you just so ridiculous!

--------
re :

if a handful of you can't get that Kreider is the only potentially dominant skater (non netminder) we have, I can't help you

One proof that I'm right is AV keeps him on a leash, overchanges the line, etc., but when they are desperate in the playoffs, suddenly it's let Kreider be Kreider.

You're making it out to be like Kreider is a guy that the opposite team bases their entire game strategy around, while being a guy that barely breaks 40 points on the season.

It's a little silly to excuse Kreiders huge lackluster effort for a very major part of the season and put it on AV not allowing Kreider to "be Kreider". Kreider can be Kreider every time he steps out on the ice to take a shift, it's not like he's not being told to use his body, crash the net, not have stone hands, not <insert ability>.

These big bodies wont win us any championships if they're not great players, Kreider has the tools to be a prettty good player, but so far he's settled on being a mediocre/decent one with a strong body.

He's also 25 so I guess this is the year he becomes an older veteran like Stepan

 

[Machinehead]

Brouwer potentially getting a big contact just warps my ****ing head. When will teams learn?

 

[Ola]

Brouwer potentially getting a big contact just warps my ****ing head. When will teams learn?

I don't disagree, but OTOH what are teams going to do? There are no players available, or at least a great shortage of good players. For most teams it's about overpaying for someone or not getting anyone...

 

[Machinehead]

I don't disagree, but OTOH what are teams going to do? There are no players available, or at least a great shortage of good players. For most teams it's about overpaying for someone or not getting anyone...

It's better to not get anyone. What huge signings have contenders like San Jose, Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago made?

 

[Kanneda]

I'm starting to realize that we are not going to keep Yandle. We have heard some news otherwise and it seems they didn't even start to negotiate.
We could still have a decent D core though, if we could trade Nash for Vatanen somehow we could have this:
McDonagh-Klein
Staal-Vatanen
Skjei-Girardi
McIlrath

Staal could resurrect paired with a good puck mover like Stralman.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I'm starting to realize that we are not going to keep Yandle. We have heard some news otherwise and it seems they didn't even start to negotiate.
We could still have a decent D core though, if we could trade Nash for Vatanen somehow we could have this:
McDonagh-Klein
Staal-Vatanen
Skjei-Girardi
McIlrath

Staal could resurrect paired with a good puck mover like Stralman.

You're just realizing that now?

 

[Ola]

It's better to not get anyone. What huge signings have contenders like San Jose, Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago made?

All those teams have made plenty of signings at different times when building their team.

But that's not really my point. People are making it way to easy for themselves when they go, how hard can it be to build a contender? Just tank and draft top 1-2 five years in a row and then win the cup. There are 30 teams in this league and only 1-2 picks in the top 1-2 if you get what I mean. By far a vast majority of all teams that try to rebuild fail and it's a very long and painful experience that can go on cycle after cycle where these teams maybe get into a PO one year at their peak and then have to "rebuild" again. I cringe when I see people saying stuff like "fans are afraid of the team being bad 1-2 years, why? Let's just rebuild." From my POV, sure, but make sure that when you o rebuild you really really really do it properly. No half arsed attempt.

There are just many GMs out there that don't have a mandate to rebuild or just have rebuilt and have a need for more better hockey players to if nothing else give their kids a proper environment to develop in, to finally be able to take another step, etc etc etc.

 

[Maineice11]

I might get ripped for this comment, but have McD and McI be a d pairing at even strength, PP, and PK. Here is why, McI is a D first thinking dman, which allows McD to play more offense, which is what he wants, McI can get the puck up ice fast and accurately, and on PK McI and McD are both strong defensively and this would make for a good duo. Now on the PP, which is where I am sure many will say why McI, here's why, McI had a knack last season of getting his shot on net, not just that, but it was a hard shot, normally leaving a good rebound for a tip in for a dirty goal or a deflection, where are the type of goals that get scored most of the time on the PP. I think this pairing could work and be really good and strong for years, but only if they are given a chance in preseason and regular season to grow. Also, there was at least one or two games this past season where they got paired together and that pairing looked very good.

Beuk better be the new assistant coach, he'd be the best fit and an easy transition both in style and familiarity with the organization, but also with the players. Rangers want to get younger and he has done very well with development of younger players in Hartford, this includes Skjei and McI, which are both expected to be on the roster in the fall.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I might get ripped for this comment, but have McD and McI be a d pairing at even strength, PP, and PK. Here is why, McI is a D first thinking dman, which allows McD to play more offense, which is what he wants, McI can get the puck up ice fast and accurately, and on PK McI and McD are both strong defensively and this would make for a good duo. Now on the PP, which is where I am sure many will say why McI, here's why, McI had a knack last season of getting his shot on net, not just that, but it was a hard shot, normally leaving a good rebound for a tip in for a dirty goal or a deflection, where are the type of goals that get scored most of the time on the PP. I think this pairing could work and be really good and strong for years, but only if they are given a chance in preseason and regular season to grow. Also, there was at least one or two games this past season where they got paired together and that pairing looked very good.

Beuk better be the new assistant coach, he'd be the best fit and an easy transition both in style and familiarity with the organization, but also with the players. Rangers want to get younger and he has done very well with development of younger players in Hartford, this includes Skjei and McI, which are both expected to be on the roster in the fall.

I don't disagree but will McI be ready for 20+ minutes a night against at least a teams second line but more than likely their first?

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I might get ripped for this comment, but have McD and McI be a d pairing at even strength, PP, and PK. Here is why, McI is a D first thinking dman, which allows McD to play more offense, which is what he wants, McI can get the puck up ice fast and accurately, and on PK McI and McD are both strong defensively and this would make for a good duo. Now on the PP, which is where I am sure many will say why McI, here's why, McI had a knack last season of getting his shot on net, not just that, but it was a hard shot, normally leaving a good rebound for a tip in for a dirty goal or a deflection, where are the type of goals that get scored most of the time on the PP. I think this pairing could work and be really good and strong for years, but only if they are given a chance in preseason and regular season to grow. Also, there was at least one or two games this past season where they got paired together and that pairing looked very good.

Beuk better be the new assistant coach, he'd be the best fit and an easy transition both in style and familiarity with the organization, but also with the players. Rangers want to get younger and he has done very well with development of younger players in Hartford, this includes Skjei and McI, which are both expected to be on the roster in the fall.

The thought process isn't awful but, regarding the PP, it only serves to show how abysmal our blue line has been in terms of a real PP threat (for as long as I can remember now). Yes, McI has a reasonably hard shot that he gets on net. Do you think he is somehow the first ever big man with limited skills to possess a big slapper that could get through? There's a reason you never saw Hal Gill on the PP (and he had a bomb that he could get on net). There's a reason teams don't just put the guy who can shoot a puck the hardest on the point on the PP. McIlrath doesn't have the vision, the puck skills, the instincts, the lateral mobility or the quickness to play on the PP. He would be a dumpster fire as one of our main PP options, especially if it was our top one with McD.

 

[NYR Viper]

The thought process isn't awful but, regarding the PP, it only serves to show how abysmal our blue line has been in terms of a real PP threat (for as long as I can remember now). Yes, McI has a reasonably hard shot that he gets on net. Do you think he is somehow the first ever big man with limited skills to possess a big slapper that could get through? There's a reason you never saw Hal Gill on the PP (and he had a bomb that he could get on net). There's a reason teams don't just put the guy who can shoot a puck the hardest on the point on the PP. McIlrath doesn't have the vision, the puck skills, the instincts, the lateral mobility or the quickness to play on the PP. He would be a dumpster fire as one of our main PP options, especially if it was our top one with McD.

McIlrath would be a solid addition to the 2nd PP unit as a trigger man.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

McIlrath would be a solid addition to the 2nd PP unit as a trigger man.

Respectfully disagree. The play will die on his stick due to slow decision making, mishandling a pass or not having the lateral mobility to keep the play alive more often than he'll be able to utilize his shot. If he's just there for his shot, he's either going to force bad shots that are going to get blocked or go wide because as soon as defenders know he's only there as a triggerman he'll have less time and space to execute in, or he won't pull the trigger because there's no lane, and he'll end up making subpar plays because he doesn't have the vision and offensive instincts to be on the PP.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I might get ripped for this comment, but have McD and McI be a d pairing at even strength, PP, and PK. Here is why, McI is a D first thinking dman, which allows McD to play more offense, which is what he wants, McI can get the puck up ice fast and accurately, and on PK McI and McD are both strong defensively and this would make for a good duo. Now on the PP, which is where I am sure many will say why McI, here's why, McI had a knack last season of getting his shot on net, not just that, but it was a hard shot, normally leaving a good rebound for a tip in for a dirty goal or a deflection, where are the type of goals that get scored most of the time on the PP. I think this pairing could work and be really good and strong for years, but only if they are given a chance in preseason and regular season to grow. Also, there was at least one or two games this past season where they got paired together and that pairing looked very good.

Beuk better be the new assistant coach, he'd be the best fit and an easy transition both in style and familiarity with the organization, but also with the players. Rangers want to get younger and he has done very well with development of younger players in Hartford, this includes Skjei and McI, which are both expected to be on the roster in the fall.

he would get skewed, roasted and exposed. he's best suited right now, to play 3rd pair. skjei would be more able to play top minutes but even he would struggle and he's far ahead of where mcilrath is.

mcd logs stop minutes against #1 lines every night. he gets top forward assignments.

last season, when he did play, mcilrath was sheltered. alot. he didn't play late in 3rd periods much as av skipped him frequently and rotated 5. there was a reason for that. trust. av didn't trust him.

im not sure dylan is ready/able to face that kind of speed and talent every 3rd shift.

 

[rangers1314]

McIlrath would be a solid addition to the 2nd PP unit as a trigger man.

I agree with this. Good, hard shot and isn't afraid to use it.

However, lets just worry about getting him in the top 6 next season, if he's still here.

 

[eco's bones]

The first special teams McIlrath needs to get on is the penalty kill--not the power play. Yeah--he has a hell of a shot but on the power play you have to be able to move the puck quickly and smartly--and lateral movement is important and that's something he's not great at either.

Eric Gelinas has a hell of a shot. He never quite worked out on power play for the Devils---wasn't all that productive anyway. Just having a bomb of a shot doesn't necessarily make someone a good power play option. Kevin Klein would be another example--one of the hardest shots on the Rangers and he moves and moves the puck around quicker than McIlrath does and he's not a good power play option either.

What the above have in common is none of them are particularly creative when they have the puck.

 

[NYR Viper]

The first special teams McIlrath needs to get on is the penalty kill--not the power play. Yeah--he has a hell of a shot but on the power play you have to be able to move the puck quickly and smartly--and lateral movement is important and that's something he's not great at either.

Eric Gelinas has a hell of a shot. He never quite worked out on power play for the Devils---wasn't all that productive anyway. Just having a bomb of a shot doesn't necessarily make someone a good power play option. Kevin Klein would be another example--one of the hardest shots on the Rangers and he moves and moves the puck around quicker than McIlrath does and he's not a good power play option either.

What the above have in common is none of them are particularly creative when they have the puck.

McIlrath is not as devoid of offensive talent as many here are claiming.

 

[Guyute]

As Dagoon has pointed out in the past, AV doesn't trust McIlrath yet the Jets are interested in him. Maybe McIlrath could be part of a package for Jake Trouba. What do the advanced stats folks have to say about Trouba?

 

[silverfish]

McIlrath is not as devoid of offensive talent as many here are claiming.

Agree. I think people here are definitely underrating McIlrath's ability to move the puck quickly.

That said, I don't want him on the PP because I don't think his edgework is agile enough yet. Would love to know what the Rangers have each player working on this season. For McIlrath, I hope it's his footwork (not to be confused with skating).

 

[NYR Viper]

Agree. I think people here are definitely underrating McIlrath's ability to move the puck quickly.

That said, I don't want him on the PP because I don't think his edgework is agile enough yet. Would love to know what the Rangers have each player working on this season. For McIlrath, I hope it's his footwork (not to be confused with skating).

He has been working on that since before he was drafted. One thing about McIlrath, he is a tireless worker. You better believe he is in the gym or working on his skating or his shot consistently.