Speculation: Roster Building Thread XLVI: Dog Days Pending

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So many teams, successful teams, have shied away from trading away the farm at the deadline. They do their shopping in the offseason. Pittsburgh brought in Kessel. Bonino. Got Hagelin in a hockey trade. SJ got Burns in a trade years ago. Patience.

This idea that teams need to sell of first and seconds in order to go deep is fictional. If your team has that big of a hole where you feel you need a player like that, you didn't do a good job building the team in the offseason. Knee jerk reactions are expensive.

If high picks are involved, the team needs to receive long term assets. They don't need to be picks and prospects, but they need to be pieces that help get the organization where they want to be both now and in 5 years. That takes vision. Is this organization capable of that?

You are right, and I think it shows how poorly this team has been ran in recent years. If Eric Staal who's essentially a third line center is hypothetically randomly traded in October with 2 years left on a fictitious contract, he's not worth 2 seconds and Saarela. Nearly every trade at the deadline will be an overpayment, and one player isn't likely the difference between winning a series and not winning a series. We need to have discipline at the trade deadline. It doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of short term winning to acquire a player for the playoffs, and we get terrible value in the long term.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Nothing about the overall *increase* cap space so we can keep Yandle for example?

They should know by October 1st!

 

[wafflepadsave]

So many teams, successful teams, have shied away from trading away the farm at the deadline. They do their shopping in the offseason. Pittsburgh brought in Kessel. Bonino. Got Hagelin in a hockey trade. SJ got Burns in a trade years ago. Patience.

This idea that teams need to sell of first and seconds in order to go deep is fictional. If your team has that big of a hole where you feel you need a player like that, you didn't do a good job building the team in the offseason. Knee jerk reactions are expensive.

If high picks are involved, the team needs to receive long term assets. They don't need to be picks and prospects, but they need to be pieces that help get the organization where they want to be both now and in 5 years. That takes vision. Is this organization capable of that?

That could be a poll question. I will start.......no!

 

[RangerBoy]

The expansion draft will have cap related rules in place of the 25% of the previous payroll needing to be exposed. No details were released.

The NHL wants the expansion teams to be competitive so the current teams will be losing a good player or two or they could lose a good player or two depending on how you view the player. One player with just one expansion team.

The Rangers pushed hard to win with this current group. It's time to rebuild. I know people hate that word. Rebuild. It's not tanking on purpose. Rebuild. They tried to win with Hank in his prime years. He will be 35 next season. How many prime years are left? He still has a lot of game. As far as him being at the very top of his level and carrying the team,those days are over.

 

[Tawnos]

The expansion draft will have cap related rules in place of the 25% of the previous payroll needing to be exposed. No details were released.

The NHL wants the expansion teams to be competitive so the current teams will be losing a good player or two or they could lose a good player or two depending on how you view the player. One player with just one expansion team.

The Rangers pushed hard to win with this current group. It's time to rebuild. I know people hate that word. Rebuild. It's not tanking on purpose. Rebuild. They tried to win with Hank in his prime years. He will be 35 next season. How many prime years are left? He still has a lot of game. As far as him being at the very top of his level and carrying the team,those days are over.

Hank carried the team last year. What basis do you have for saying those days are over?

 

[RangerBoy]

Hank carried the team last year. What basis do you have for saying those days are over?

Where did the team go? They lost in the first round. He was on fumes by the time the playoffs started. They played him too much to even qualify for the playoffs.

 

[Tawnos]

Where did the team go? They lost in the first round. He was on fumes by the time the playoffs started. They played him too much to even qualify for the playoffs.

That's fair, but we know that a goalie is only able to carry a team so far. That would still be carrying the team. Improve the group in front of him and he doesn't need to do as much of it himself. He's still capable of carrying the team. You need to make sure he doesn't always have to. He's still a top 3 goalie in the game.

As for how much they played him, well that was a result of a boneheaded decision to not put Raanta on IR and bring up Hellberg. That decision was made because the front office wanted to maximize the available space at the deadline. Everyone criticizes short term thinking, but there are times short term thinking is beneficial for the long term too. The Girardi situation is the same thing. Keeping him so you have him to expose in the expansion draft. If you have a problem today, it's best to solve it today.

Oh, and by the way, the minimum cap exposure for the expansion draft was dropped according to Daly.

 

[RangerBoy]

That's fair, but we know that a goalie is only able to carry a team so far. That would still be carrying the team. Improve the group in front of him and he doesn't need to do as much of it himself. He's still capable of carrying the team. You need to make sure he doesn't always have to. He's still a top 3 goalie in the game.

As for how much they played him, well that was a result of a boneheaded decision to not put Raanta on IR and bring up Hellberg. That decision was made because the front office wanted to maximize the available space at the deadline. Everyone criticizes short term thinking, but there are times short term thinking is beneficial for the long term too. The Girardi situation is the same thing. Keeping him so you have him to expose in the expansion draft. If you have a problem today, it's best to solve it today.

Oh, and by the way, the minimum cap exposure for the expansion draft was dropped according to Daly.

I posted that yesterday. However, Daly added there are cap related rules regarding the expansion draft. The NHL dropped the 25% but added something else. Daly didn't elaborate what are the cap related rules.

 

[rangers1314]

Per Greg Wyshynski, Ulf has just been named HC of the Charlotte Checkers. AHL team for the Canes.

 

[Tawnos]

I posted that yesterday. However, Daly added there are cap related rules regarding the expansion draft. The NHL dropped the 25% but added something else. Daly didn't elaborate what are the cap related rules.

Right, and you posted the 25% thing again this morning. I just wanted to clarify it. According to LeBrun, Daly said there won't be a minimum cap threshold. Wonder what other cap related rules they're considering?

 

[GAGLine]

Right, and you posted the 25% thing again this morning. I just wanted to clarify it. According to LeBrun, Daly said there won't be a minimum cap threshold. Wonder what other cap related rules they're considering?

They may require that each team expose X players making at least Y salary.

They want the expansion team(s) to be competitive and they have to be able to reach the cap floor.

 

[GAGLine]

The Girardi situation is the same thing. Keeping him so you have him to expose in the expansion draft. If you have a problem today, it's best to solve it today.

The problem is that the only way to solve the problem today is to buy him out, and that is a terrible solution, one which is IMO worse than the problem itself. I'd rather hang onto Girardi for a year and see what happens. Maybe he gets healthy and has a bounce back. Or maybe he gets hurt again and ends up on permanent LTIR. Or maybe expansion happens and we can expose him and maybe he gets selected. Or maybe he retires. Or maybe we can trade him after his NMC expires. Even if we have to retain money, it's still better than a buyout.

 

[Leetch3]

They may require that each team expose X players making at least Y salary.

They want the expansion team(s) to be competitive and they have to be able to reach the cap floor.

if you need expose at least Y salary than that is the same thing as needing to expose at least X % of the payroll...same rule just worded differently

 

[GAGLine]

if you need expose at least Y salary than that is the same thing as needing to expose at least X % of the payroll...same rule just worded differently

It depends on the values of X and Y. Maybe they say each team has to expose at least 1 player making 5 mil or more, or 2 players making 3.5 mil or more, or something like that.

I don't know if that's how they will do it. I'm just guessing based on them saying that it will be tied to the cap in some way.

 

[TheTakedown]

It depends on the values of X and Y. Maybe they say each team has to expose at least 1 player making 5 mil or more, or 2 players making 3.5 mil or more, or something like that.

I don't know if that's how they will do it. I'm just guessing based on them saying that it will be tied to the cap in some way.

If it was something along these lines, that would coincide right into management deciding to keep Girardi--Same for Staal as well if that draft is in the 2018-19 season.

It also depends on when they decide to do the expansion draft (2017-18 draft or 2018-19 draft?), and how they handle expiring NMC's and NTC's (expiring ones should not count).

 

[RangerBoy]

Right, and you posted the 25% thing again this morning. I just wanted to clarify it. According to LeBrun, Daly said there won't be a minimum cap threshold. Wonder what other cap related rules they're considering?

Clarify what?

 

[Tawnos]

Clarify what?

I misread your post early this morning. Nevermind.

 

[Tawnos]

The problem is that the only way to solve the problem today is to buy him out, and that is a terrible solution, one which is IMO worse than the problem itself. I'd rather hang onto Girardi for a year and see what happens. Maybe he gets healthy and has a bounce back. Or maybe he gets hurt again and ends up on permanent LTIR. Or maybe expansion happens and we can expose him and maybe he gets selected. Or maybe he retires. Or maybe we can trade him after his NMC expires. Even if we have to retain money, it's still better than a buyout.

I actually don't think buying him out is such a bad route. They've apparently decided not to do it, but it's not so horrible.

That doesn't mean they aren't exploring trading him, which is more what I was referring to. There have been people around here who have said that we shouldn't worry about trading him so we can hang onto him for the expansion draft.

 

[RangerBoy]

They may require that each team expose X players making at least Y salary.

They want the expansion team(s) to be competitive and they have to be able to reach the cap floor.

Craig Custance has the exact quote from Daly. I will post it later. Paraphrasing. There are cap related rules. He did not want to get into the specifics. The minimum salary threshold from March is not part of the current formation. LeBrun found out some members of the BOG pushed back against the 25% payroll from the previous year being exposed and he asked Daly if there are other salary/cap/financial requirements.

 

[GAGLine]

I actually don't think buying him out is such a bad route. They've apparently decided not to do it, but it's not so horrible.

That doesn't mean they aren't exploring trading him, which is more what I was referring to. There have been people around here who have said that we shouldn't worry about trading him so we can hang onto him for the expansion draft.

Oh absolutely we should trade him if we could. I just don't think we can. The fact that we may be able to expose him in the expansion drift is simply a silver lining in an otherwise dark cloud.

The buyout is horrible though. 8 years of dead cap space. Some of the cap hits are smaller than others, but it's still a long time for a team that spends nearly every dollar of the cap every year. We have enough cap problems as it is. We need to fix them, not make them worse. Worst case scenario, we buy him out next summer when the buyout isn't quite as bad.

The only reason to buy him out now is if the Rangers think they have a legitimate shot at the cup, and if they think that, we are doomed anyway.

 

[NYR Viper]

Just because I can't stop thinking about all of this, would anyone be upset with this type of off-season:

To Nashville:
Rick Nash @ 30% retained

To NYR:
Colin Wilson + Vladislav Kamenev + NSH 1st '16


To ANA:
Chris Kreider

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen


To DAL:
Marc Staal

TO NYR:
Antoine Roussel + DAL 3rd '16 + DAL 2nd '17


To COL:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
COL 2nd '16 + COL 3rd '16


Miller-Stepan-MZA
Wilson-Brassard-Buchnevich
Roussel-Hayes-_______
______-Lindberg-Fast
______

McDonagh-Vatanen
_______-McIlrath
Skjei-Girardi
______

Hank
Raanta


UFA Signings:
Brian Campbell - 1 year @ 4.5 million
Jason Chimera - 1 year @ 2 million
Nakladel - 2 years @ 1 million/season
Brouwer - 3 years @ 3.5 million/season


Miller-Stepan-MZA
Wilson-Brassard-Buchnevich
Roussel-Hayes-Brouwer
Chimera-Lindberg-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Campbell-McIlrath
Skjei-Girardi
Nakladel

Defense:
They get more mobile and recoup some picks moving Staal and Klein. Bringing in Vatanen and Campbell will help move the puck and drive some offense from the back end. Nakladel would be a very nice insurance policy and push both McIlrath and Skjei to play well. If they don't, you have a 3 player rotation. Or one of them pushes Girardi out. There will be injuries.

Offense:
They get bigger, stronger and a bit more diverse in terms of how they manufacture their offense. They gain another big body player in Wilson, along with Brouwer and Chimera to help replace some of the size they lost by moving Nash and Kreider. Roussel, Chimera and Brouwer all play with an edge and are solid puck retrieval and drive to the net guys, something the team needed more of last year. All skate well, especially Chimera.

Trade reasonings:
Nashville is looking for more offense to help solidify their 2nd line. They move an underperforming power forward in Wilson who is paid just under 4 million for Nash @ $5.46m (70%) for a couple of years. Kamenev and the 1st '16 (late first) are the price for having Nash for the full 2 years.

Anaheim has plenty of young, cheap puck movers, they are in the market to polish off their forwards with another power forward winger to play with either Kesler or Getzlaf. The Rangers can pay Vatanen what is most likely to be a 4-5 million for 5-6 year contract.

Dallas will be most likely losing Demers, Goligoski and Russel. They have good young forwards either already playing or on their way and can afford to lose a player like Roussel. Staal gives them a big body shut-down top-4 defenseman signed long term (which is a plus for a team like Dallas who may have issues playing in the UFA market)

Colorado is on the look out for another solid top-4 defenseman. Klein fits that bill. I think they want to start pushing towards being a solid playoff team with their young forward core. Klein helps them for the next couple of years and doesn't break the bank.

 

[Riche16]

I realize our fans are down on our team now but we are not as terrible as it feels.

We may have the goalie. We may have the the allstar dman but we don't have the all star center.

Some fans are down because we feel the situation is far worse than others make it out to be.

The only real asset we have that others covet (go to the main boards if you want some insight) is McD. Obviously there are others that we won't move.

We have too many unmovable contracts and have too much tied up in players that we want off the team entirely.

We have no one in the pipeline. Buch is all but penciled in... McIlrath Skjei will be on the roster. Yandle gone.

RFAs who need raises and a team that in all liklihood isn't making the post season next year and has no draft picks this yr until round 3.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Brouwer will get a Clarkson like contract. Want nothing to do with him regardless.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Don't want Brouwer, he will get overpaid.

Would love Campbell, but heard he's looking for big money.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Just because I can't stop thinking about all of this, would anyone be upset with this type of off-season:

To Nashville:
Rick Nash @ 30% retained

To NYR:
Colin Wilson + Vladislav Kamenev + NSH 1st '16


To ANA:
Chris Kreider

To NYR:
Sami Vatanen


To DAL:
Marc Staal

TO NYR:
Antoine Roussel + DAL 3rd '16 + DAL 2nd '17


To COL:
Kevin Klein

To NYR:
COL 2nd '16 + COL 3rd '16


Miller-Stepan-MZA
Wilson-Brassard-Buchnevich
Roussel-Hayes-_______
______-Lindberg-Fast
______

McDonagh-Vatanen
_______-McIlrath
Skjei-Girardi
______

Hank
Raanta


UFA Signings:
Brian Campbell - 1 year @ 4.5 million
Jason Chimera - 1 year @ 2 million
Nakladel - 2 years @ 1 million/season
Brouwer - 3 years @ 3.5 million/season


Miller-Stepan-MZA
Wilson-Brassard-Buchnevich
Roussel-Hayes-Brouwer
Chimera-Lindberg-Fast
Jensen/Hrivik

McDonagh-Vatanen
Campbell-McIlrath
Skjei-Girardi
Nakladel

Defense:
They get more mobile and recoup some picks moving Staal and Klein. Bringing in Vatanen and Campbell will help move the puck and drive some offense from the back end. Nakladel would be a very nice insurance policy and push both McIlrath and Skjei to play well. If they don't, you have a 3 player rotation. Or one of them pushes Girardi out. There will be injuries.

Offense:
They get bigger, stronger and a bit more diverse in terms of how they manufacture their offense. They gain another big body player in Wilson, along with Brouwer and Chimera to help replace some of the size they lost by moving Nash and Kreider. Roussel, Chimera and Brouwer all play with an edge and are solid puck retrieval and drive to the net guys, something the team needed more of last year. All skate well, especially Chimera.

Trade reasonings:
Nashville is looking for more offense to help solidify their 2nd line. They move an underperforming power forward in Wilson who is paid just under 4 million for Nash @ $5.46m (70%) for a couple of years. Kamenev and the 1st '16 (late first) are the price for having Nash for the full 2 years.

Anaheim has plenty of young, cheap puck movers, they are in the market to polish off their forwards with another power forward winger to play with either Kesler or Getzlaf. The Rangers can pay Vatanen what is most likely to be a 4-5 million for 5-6 year contract.

Dallas will be most likely losing Demers, Goligoski and Russel. They have good young forwards either already playing or on their way and can afford to lose a player like Roussel. Staal gives them a big body shut-down top-4 defenseman signed long term (which is a plus for a team like Dallas who may have issues playing in the UFA market)

Colorado is on the look out for another solid top-4 defenseman. Klein fits that bill. I think they want to start pushing towards being a solid playoff team with their young forward core. Klein helps them for the next couple of years and doesn't break the bank.

I dig the trades but id try to pry a 1st for Klein somehow, and in terms of ufa i fully support all of them except Brian Campbell. I also doubt Chimera makes that little, i think he may get a pay day this offseason.