Speculation: Roster Building Thread VIII (2021 Offseason Thread) - “And then there was light…”

[Oscar Lindberg]

Robertson scored 45 points last year getting him plus two other pieces for Kreider is a heist

plus you save money on the cap and probably keep Buch

let’s not act like signing Kreider was the right move lol

 

[MadHookUp]

Whenever you are invoking the Butterfly Effect when defending a past move, it probably wasn't the right move.

I was offering it as a coping mechanism. I was on the trade Kreider bandwagon.

 

[bobbop]

Robertson is scores 45 points last year getting him plus two other pieces for Kreider is a heist

plus you save money on the cap and probably keep Buch

let’s not act like signing Kreider was the right move lol

We can play this game all day. Ottawa just called and they want backsies on the Mika trade.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

We can play this game all day. Ottawa just called and they want backsides on the Mika trade.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Disagree about hindsight

it was the wrong decision to extend him at the time and it looks even worse now knowing what they turned down

 

[Raspewtin]

Robertson scored 45 points last year getting him plus two other pieces for Kreider is a heist

plus you save money on the cap and probably keep Buch

let’s not act like signing Kreider was the right move lol

think they're talking about nick robertson

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

think they're talking about nick robertson

Nah, Dallas was specifically mentioned.

 

[Raspewtin]

Nah, Dallas was specifically mentioned.

oh lol

how in the world would we get him for Kreider, we'd have to add considerably

 

[Kocur Dill]

The idea that Drury is going to move either Buch or Strome for picks and prospects at this point in time also needs to stop. We're done trading for unestablished assets. Not happening. Zip,Zilch,Nada

That shouldn't be entirely true I this Organization is smart. They need highly skilled elc's sprinkled in over the next 4 to 5 years as contracts climb and vets are moved. We most likely won't be in the top 10 draft order going forward after next season.

Maybe not go out of the way to aquire picks, but, if something makes sense then it can't be looked over as "we don't need prospects" because to be in it for the next decade we do need cheap, young, talent. Later 1st rd picks we could get might be boom/bust projects or raw u18/NCAA kids that need four years.

 

[bbny]

Robertson scored 45 points last year getting him plus two other pieces for Kreider is a heist

plus you save money on the cap and probably keep Buch

let’s not act like signing Kreider was the right move lol

It is just as likely that they'd have done the deal, Robertson scores 6 goals and 16 points teetering between the AHL and the 3rd and 4th lines here this year, while Kreider is the missing piece that helps Dallas beat the Lightning to win the Cup last year. Imagine the conversation then? We also might have whiffed on winning the lottery and Lafreniere.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

oh lol

how in the world would we get him for Kreider, we'd have to add considerably

Edge has already mentioned that we had a deal on the table with Dallas before resigning Krieder.

The deal was Krieder for Robertson, their 1st, and another piece that he cant remember.

That is the truth, Believe it or not, up to you

 

[bobbop]

Being in the west, the boards have already had time to percolate every day before I get started. Today as I am scrolling through I am surprised and honored to see some mentions of my name.

Let me get serious for a moment.

What I would like everyone to know is that I don’t deserve to be seen in the same light as @Edge .

I consider @Edge to be the high priest of these boards. The first thing I do every morning is search his posts to see what he is talking about. He not only has access to important information but he also presents it in a measured, intelligent way. He also spends a great deal of time scouting junior players and has brought great insight to those conversations. He is my first read.

I was fortunate to have a wonderful career that started in minor league hockey management and then morphed into advertising. I met a lot of wonderful people along the way and I still keep in touch with many of my hockey connections. Unfortunately I don’t have as many as I used to have but I still stay in touch with a lot of connected people. Between that, reading and listening to everything I can get my hands on and watching a ton of hockey, I have tried to stay relevant.

I love to participate here and I hope I can continue to add value. I am very patient and try to think like a GM. I appreciate the kind comments and very much appreciate my fellow posters who pose good questions and make great arguments.

At the end of the day, we are all on the same mission here. A Stanley Cup in New York. And that’s what matters.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

It is just as likely that they'd have done the deal, Robertson scores 6 goals and 16 points teetering between the AHL and the 3rd and 4th lines here this year, while Kreider is the missing piece that helps Dallas beat the Lightning to win the Cup last year. Imagine the conversation then? We also might have whiffed on winning the lottery and Lafreniere.

First off, it was already shown that after the resigning which was on trade deadline day, he broke his foot and we still went 2-1 in those three games but then lost the rest anyway then the covid hit. So lets not say that we wouldnt have won the lottery bc we would be in the same position regardless.

Nobody flourished here under Quinn. He was a horrendous coach. But Robertson would have been in the lineup in Krieders place and maybe he wouldnt have blown up the way he did here but he has loads of potential to be an actaully competitive krieder thoughout the season, while also picking up a late 1st and another piece.

I dislike Krieder, he is overrated, i hate the resigning then, as much as i hate it now. But if you look back at how we did after the deadline, it wouldnt have been any worse. So i do believe Laf would have still been a ranger

 

[Roo Returns]

The idea that Drury is going to move either Buch or Strome for picks and prospects at this point in time also needs to stop. We're done trading for unestablished assets. Not happening. Zip,Zilch,Nada

Once again it's not a binary yes/no situation. They want to add younger NHL players and grit and there's a flat cap. You can't make Buch/Strome just disappear when trading for another center. That's where the excessive prospects come in. If the Rangers want Larkin but Detroit wants nothing to do with Buch/Strome you need to move those guys out in separate deals. And if you already have a full roster and are capped out, what are you going to trade those guys for?

There's nothing wrong with adding a 29th or 30th overall pick in a separate deal if the 15th is gone for Larkin/Eichel/etc.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

The Kreider trade line eve signing was a mistake.
This is an instant where we could have ate our cake and had it too.
Kreider could have been traded and then resigned after July 1st and he refused because of his thoughts that he was insulted then, oh well! It is called taking one for the team.
And since we are piling on Gorton let’s not forget about keeping Fast. I wouldn’t care if the best we were offered was a 4th . You take it and move forward. Better than nothing.

 

[Roo Returns]

Robertson scored 45 points last year getting him plus two other pieces for Kreider is a heist

plus you save money on the cap and probably keep Buch

let’s not act like signing Kreider was the right move lol

Sometimes it's good to just let a piece walk or buy another lottery ticket or two. Lou Lamriello did this many times throughout his career and never had 20/20. Sometimes he got it right, and other times he was wrong and picked himself up and never looked back.

Resigning Kreider was a fear of the unknown move. He will probably never become what we all want him to be. He probably never even hits 30 goals in a season and if he ends his career in the 280 goal range that's good.

Part of what Drury needs to do is establish faith and succeed in finding replacement players in the pipeline. The Rangers have had issues with that since the mid-90s.

 

[Roo Returns]

The Kreider trade line eve signing was a mistake.
This is an instant where we could have ate our cake and had it too.
Kreider could have been traded and then resigned after July 1st and he refused because of his thoughts that he was insulted then, oh well! It is called taking one for the team.
And since we are piling on Gorton let’s not forget about keeping Fast. I wouldn’t care if the best we were offered was a 4th . You take it and move forward. Better than nothing.

I loved Fast but it was a foregone conclusion he was gone years before when the Islanders and Canucks started giving out big deal to bottom sixers.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Absolute Thinking

Absolute thinking, sometime called absolutist thinking, refers to the cognitively detrimental habit of describing feeling and circumstances in concrete, absolute terms.

An example would be someone using "I am totally devastated," or "My life is completely destroyed" to describe situations that are difficult to deal with. This cognitive bias is characterized by thinking is all or nothing, black or white, and absolutist. Although this is a normal short-term reaction to sudden life changes and unfortunate events, it's also normal to regroup and cope with the situation.

Absolute thinking and an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's. Individuals who exhibit absolute thinking have a general tendency to readily categorize things in their environment and there seems to be a link with authoritarianism thinking.



Not calling out anyone in particular, but considering the state of this thread the last couple of days, I thought I'd leave this here.

 

[Roo Returns]

First off, it was already shown that after the resigning which was on trade deadline day, he broke his foot and we still went 2-1 in those three games but then lost the rest anyway then the covid hit. So lets not say that we wouldnt have won the lottery bc we would be in the same position regardless.

Nobody flourished here under Quinn. He was a horrendous coach. But Robertson would have been in the lineup in Krieders place and maybe he wouldnt have blown up the way he did here but he has loads of potential to be an actaully competitive krieder thoughout the season, while also picking up a late 1st and another piece.

I dislike Krieder, he is overrated, i hate the resigning then, as much as i hate it now. But if you look back at how we did after the deadline, it wouldnt have been any worse. So i do believe Laf would have still been a ranger

I don't like Quinn at all but Fox, Miller, and Buch did well.

I really hope we can stop talking about Quinn by Nov-Dec. We're all still in recovery for how bad a coach he was.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I still wanted to trade Kreider at the time, but I remember the extension as a big vote of confidence in the current core when they were climbing up the standings. It was kind of a "let's go, we're doing this" moment. Does that make it a good decision, no, but it made sense.

The Flyers fans don't like him very much, I guess he's another "chill bro" personality, but Kevin Hayes would have still been a better fit with this roster. Of course the way we got Lafreniere was just a miracle, no one was planning for that.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Said it at that deadline but Kreider should have been moved then and it still holds true. If we could have gotten another Nash like haul for him we would be way better off, not to mention the cap implications.
Having said that you can't go back so how about we just take his cap hit and put it aside for the moment and drop him to the 3rd line. Can he be productive enough behind Panarin and Lafreniere to help this team? I say hell yeah. The cap hit sucks but him on a 3rd line and penalty killing doesn't hurt the on ice product at all for the short term. If we look at it like laf, panarin and kreider cost us an average of around 6 mill each it isn't so bad.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Absolute Thinking

Absolute thinking, sometime called absolutist thinking, refers to the cognitively detrimental habit of describing feeling and circumstances in concrete, absolute terms.

An example would be someone using "I am totally devastated," or "My life is completely destroyed" to describe situations that are difficult to deal with. This cognitive bias is characterized by thinking is all or nothing, black or white, and absolutist. Although this is a normal short-term reaction to sudden life changes and unfortunate events, it's also normal to regroup and cope with the situation.

Absolute thinking and an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's. Individuals who exhibit absolute thinking have a general tendency to readily categorize things in their environment and there seems to be a link with authoritarianism thinking.



Not calling out anyone in particular, but considering the state of this thread the last couple of days, I thought I'd leave this here.

i’m absolutely confused. .

Trying to grill during rain storms and 50 degree July 4th weather. Now this!!! Is that a Brad Marchand avatar? I’m no neurologist but that fella has some disconnect and . . . is he the voice a reason?

Worlds must be colliding but good news . . . the sun is out. My absolute thinking suggests some will should step away and go look at it.

 

[MrAlmost]

I kinda feel like had the seasons progressed normally, the cap implications for Kreider that detractors use against him and his contract would be less concerning. Perhaps we would be talking about a 6.5 mil contract against a 90 mil ceiling? That is a pretty big difference.

Of course, that's not how it happened and here we are.

 

[Salvage21]

I kinda feel like had the seasons progressed normally, the cap implications for Kreider that detractors use against him and his contract would be less concerning. Perhaps we would be talking about a 6.5 mil contract against a 90 mil ceiling? That is a pretty big difference.

Of course, that's not how it happened and here we are.

Real good point here.

 

[Levitate]

I think the team was very worried about having decent leadership going forward with all of the young players. Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, etc weren't realllllly what I think the team wanted when it came to a leader to take young players under their wings and help them into the NHL. Kreider was/is definitely that player and I think they were seriously worried about not having a player like him on the roster to help the younger kids

that said if there really was a Robertson/1st on the table for him then they should have taken it and looked to fill the leadership parts some other way and for cheaper

 

[NYR Viper]

I hear the argument for Zibanejad, a similar argument was made for Kreider. Who is going to take his spot immediately? He’s a veteran presence. Etc, etc. just because a specific replacement isn’t in view right now doesn’t mean the correct move isn’t adding pieces and allowing yourself flexibility to go after someone who fits better in the near future.