Speculation: Roster Building Thread VIII (2021 Offseason Thread) - “And then there was light…”

[Ola]

Lol, which Robertson are we talking about here? Nic? Jason?

 

[Fitzy]

Lol, which Robertson are we talking about here? Nic? Jason?

I guess there must have been some news about the rookie of the year finalist that I missed.

Someone alluded to a Robertson+1st offer for Kreider a bit back, IDK if that's all there is to it.

 

[AirGut]

Be ready for the Eichel trade this week. Might happen later this afternoon as well. I'm glad Drury and company have just been persistent with BUF and Jack. They were always the one team just patiently sitting in the corner for Adams to circle back in a panic

 

[howztheglass]

Before I forget......

Thanks Edge and everyone else that provides us with the information that you guys do.. The crap that went on the last few days was whelp crap.

The information you provide on the site makes it more enjoyable and some times even has us on the edge of our seat---like how I through that in.

Big thanks to those boys and girls..

Enjoy today if your off prepare for tomorrow as most of us have got to go back to work.

 

[Synergy27]

No. It’s a case of horrible asset management and negligent GM’ing quite frankly. Taking all the names out, a rebuilding team Getting a first and a top prospect for a rental is a no brainer. This wasn’t another MZA for conditional magic beans offer.

I disagree. The team clearly didn’t want to go the Edmonton route, i.e., jettison all vets and start from scratch. Kreider brought (and brings) more to the table than just stats.

It’s clearly a mistake in hindsight, and a worse than most of us thought just a day or two ago, but I still understand it in the context of that moment in time.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Spitballin' here but would Zibanejad to the Panthers make sense? Either Zibanejad+ for Barkov, or Zibanjead for Lundell+.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I disagree. The team clearly didn’t want to go the Edmonton route, i.e., jettison all vets and start from scratch. Kreider brought (and brings) more to the table than just stats.

It’s clearly a mistake in hindsight, and a worse than most of us thought just a day or two ago, but I still understand it in the context of that moment in time.

Zibby, Panarin and Trouba. The Rangers couldn’t have gone the Edmonton route.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Whether we like it or not, Kreider has way more value to this team than we’ll ever truly give him credit for with how he’s helped younger players.

I personally was ok trading him at the time when I heard the rumored deal, even if it’s likely that we don’t end up with Lafreniere. C’est la vie. He’ll still have a role on this team and be usesful for a few years moving forward. I think a role change under Gallant’s system would suit him well. I’m probably putting too much stock in Gallant right now, but I really do think his systems change will do wonders for a lot of players on our team.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Be ready for the Eichel trade this week. Might happen later this afternoon as well. I'm glad Drury and company have just been persistent with BUF and Jack. They were always the one team just patiently sitting in the corner for Adams to circle back in a panic

Where did you see that?

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Where did you see that?

He's teasing our insiders

 

[Ola]

that trade may have won Dallas the cup last year.

I’m thinking both Gorton and JD would be here if they told Dolan the team would win next season. Guessing they stuck with the theme about the kids might not be ready. Then why did they resign Kreider? Sends a strange message to Dolan imo.

Nah, it comes down to it being quite obvious that this team and the management of it was a complete mess late last season. I think those issues can be divided into two categories: (1) Unacceptable incompetence (DQ and lack of attitude on the roster) and (2) some troubling concerns (development of Kakko and Laf etc). This caused the hockey community to intervene and step in and advice Dolan that it wasn't acceptable.

But I am not sure if this alone was enough. Shit happen. I think that it wasn't until they moved to the next step that the decision was taken. I.e. when the question was posed, how do we correct this? Who is the right man to correct this? Maybe Gorton and JD "overplayed their hand", I don't know. But I don't think they were seen as the answer here which is why they were fired.

Listen to what Drury said. The personnel issues that has been made so much about, they are nonsense from my POV. A GM in today's NHL is fettered and have a straitjacket, handcuffs and what not and asking Drury to go for "win now" and bring toughness into the top 6 is like asking a guy with those conditions to joggle with 5 balls. If any GM of this team work extremely hard all summer and manage to accomplish anything more than cosmetic changes they have done a good job. We have zero cap space down the road and moves are basically not made in this league. 32 teams and like 4-5 non-minor hockey trades (i.e. not rentals getting moved).

No, what Drury stressed was that he wanted to build a winner outside of the ice too, all through the organization. So what does that mean in relation to what Gorton did? Gorton hired the biggest pushover ever in DQ as a coach and surrounded himself with almost exclusively ex players with zero management experience. Gorton was really concerned when Slats retired and a Prez was to be hired. I've made many posts on this over the years, its hard to deny, we had very little experience and never tried to even remotely fill a management position with someone with a track record. I have no doubt whatsoever that Gorton with strong support could have done a great job as a GM in this league. But I think that what ultimately cost him his job was that he would never have hired someone like Gallant that is known to be hard to control for management at times. I don't think Gorton would have brought in anyone else to management that had authority.

Look, Gorton was Sather's man. There can be no doubt that Sather appreciated Gorton. But the choice was probably not about Gorton vs Drury, it was about Gorton vs Drury + the best management team and coach money can buy. Just my bet.

 

[AirGut]

He's teasing our insiders

we're all insiders here

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

All I know is that Robertson was an absolute joy to watch in the Worlds. Really has an infectious personality.

Jason, Nick or Matthew?

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

He's teasing our insiders

Trolling*

 

[Roo Returns]

Last thread got very ugly. Like beyond bad. We give this one a fresh start…

Yeah I don't know if it's post pandemic fatigue or how this season was a train wreck, or even a generational thing, but there's a general lack of respect for other posters on this board.

It's fine to not agree and even be feisty. We all have our favorite prospects and we all want to see the Rangers do well. Some of us have radically different takes on how to get there and timelines.

@Edge @bobbop @BBKers provide invaluable knowledge on what's going on and why.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

If Rangers were willing to pay for JE (10M per X 5) I wonder if they can get Zibanejad to sign for 5 at a big offer like 9M per? sell him the idea is to keep everyone to make as many runs as possible while Panarin is here. It’s about a 40% raise.. He would be 35 and can likely still get a shorter contract after be it here or elsewhere.

5X9 is like a 40% raise in a flat cap world

 

[Sooth]

Do any of you know about any books or tv/web-series about behind the scene for hockey? Have seen a number for soccer etc, but are struggling to find any for hockey.

Although a bit older, but I personally enjoyed "Future Greats and Heartbreaks" by Gare Joyce. Takes an inside look to Columbus's drafts in 2006 and 2007, if I recall correctly.

 

[Roo Returns]

I think to sum it up, it's not about trading prospects for established guys that people fear. Most if not all on this site are smart and realize not every prospect is going to play for the Rangers. It's a matter of "Do you think a team with Ziba and Strome replacement can compete for a Cup numerous times in the next 5-6 years?"

My stance on Ziba/Strome/Buch in the top six is I've seen enough and I'm ready to move on from all three. Panarin and Kreider will be here. Two of Laf/Kaako/Krav should take the other spots.

The bottom six is going to go through some major changes. I hope I'm right about Cullye and he becomes a controlled lunatic. Between him and one of Berrard/Vierling, that is a lot of sandpaper and "rats".

So the centers brought in need to be consistent and have a higher battle level. I don't see it with Larkin. Some due, that's fine.

Maybe this team gets super lucky and Chytil takes the next step and continues a progression like Bailey or Daneault. Maybe they sign Barkov or even Daneualt, the later this offseason. Maybe Krejci to mentor Chytil.

I think we can all agree the team needs to change some of it's drafting philosophy and start picking centers even in the mid rounds. No more LHDs please. Even when the Rangers were in the dark ages they drafted centers who went on to have decent (York/Malholtra) to very good (Savard/Moore) NHL careers. You can't worry about busts when you don't even draft centers. Drafting Akil Thomas over Linbblom was a no brainer.

The only legit center "prospect" anywhere close is Henrikson and he's 70/30 going to have a really tough time in the AHL this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he flames out pretty quickly and is loaned back to Sweden by January.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I think to sum it up, it's not about trading prospects for established guys that people fear. Most if not all on this site are smart and realize not every prospect is going to play for the Rangers. It's a matter of "Do you think a team with Ziba and Strome replacement can compete for a Cup numerous times in the next 5-6 years?"

My fear is the team commits so much cap space towards immovable veterans they’ll lose the kids.

Honestly, why do all these players get NTC? Here is a ton of guaranteed money and we cannot move you even if your heart or wheels fall off. It’s ridiculous

 

[MadHookUp]

The incident with TDA--Trouba stepping in as some of mentioned ( We only know so much ) had a big effect on the team and management saw this.

Since having kids, my time to read these boards have been limited, so I missed this. What happened? I was always curious about the rumor of a split locker room and Lemiuex asking to be traded.

 

[Fitzy]

There isn't a huge issue with having strong personalities in the locker room, so far as the team is a family and the negative energy gets used externally.

When you have players getting bullied in the locker room, on the other hand, it's a big issue.

I remember there was a controversy about a player, I think it was Erik Christensen, preferring to hang out with the visiting teams.

It's a cliche, but for a team to play it's hardest, and put in the work without having the coach constantly have to put the screws to them, the team needs to want to win not just for themselves but each other.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Where did you see that?

Everyone wants to be an insider now

 

[Roo Returns]

My fear is the team commits so much cap space towards immovable veterans they’ll lose the kids.

Honestly, why do all these players get NTC? Here is a ton of guaranteed money and we cannot move you even if your heart or wheels fall off. It’s ridiculous

Bingo. And they already have three with Trouba/Panarin/Kreider. Trouba people are already counting down the days until his NMC is modified and if Panarin doesn't make some playoff noise in the next two years people will start complaining.

I don't hate Kreider I just think he's more in line with a Duguay/regular season Rangers Kovalev than a Steve Vickers. He's not Mark Stone, he's not Max Pacioretty, he's definitely not Tim Kerr.

I'm ready for the "bro he's finally gonna hit 30 goals this year. Gallant will have him motivated" angle.

 

[MadHookUp]

For those of you that weren't a fan of the Kreider signing initially. Or those of you now regretting it because we won the Laf lottery. Keep in mind the butterfly effect. If we trade Kreider at the deadline, it would had a big impact in the standings and we would effectively reset the lottery. Even if the lottery results were the same, we wouldn't have been in the play in series against Carolina.

 

[Roo Returns]

There isn't a huge issue with having strong personalities in the locker room, so far as the team is a family and the negative energy gets used externally.

When you have players getting bullied in the locker room, on the other hand, it's a big issue.

I remember there was a controversy about a player, I think it was Erik Christensen, preferring to hang out with the visiting teams.

It's a cliche, but for a team to play it's hardest, and put in the work without having the coach constantly have to put the screws to them, the team needs to want to win not just for themselves but each other.

The Rangers have been very concerned with having "nice guys" and "classy guys" in the org. They preach character so much and this philosophy is broken because look at Kovacs, Gropp, Andersson, Stromwall, Zborovsky, Sareela, Day. All were head cases who ran. Kravstov was going down that road but he figured it out luckily (and who knows if he's even still here in two weeks lol). DeAngelo has no emotional intelligence.

Draft guys who legitimately hate to lose and view the other teams as enemies and trash. That's what I'm hoping Drury changes. Enough of preaching this fake character stuff (and I don't hate Gordie Clarke at all I gave him a B+ for his job and 2012/2014/2015 is the data you need to look at).

That's why I really like Cullye as a prospect. He's not a sociopath and from all accounts seems like a good kid off the ice (despite liking the Star Wars prequels haha) but he plays the game like a lunatic. Need more crazy.