Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVII : Why can't we always play like that?

[themethod7]

I don't hate him at all, I'm just being reasonable.

I don't see much of a return for a bottom-six center who had an over-achieving season. Perhaps a pair of second round picks at best.

Is he a bottom-six center on the team we trade him to though? Playing behind Sid/Geno would bump just about any other center in the league to the 3rd line, so maybe a team like Arizona views him as a 2C??

Either way, I don't like the idea of trading Sutter for picks straight up, a 2nd and a solid prospect maybe, but just picks? Nah.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If they can get Sutter under a long term deal in the 4m range, then I think it will work cap wise. I just don't believe he is going to take 1m-1.5 less per than he can get on the open market.

I just don't see how he takes less than 5m when a guy like Bolland is making 5.5m per. Bolland doesn't even have a 20 goal season to his credit, let alone two like Sutter.

Sutter would be one of the hottest FA to hit the market next summer and easily make what Bolland is making. He's already said he sees himself as a scoring fwd and he just put up 20 goals, so I doubt he's changed his mind in that regard.

If anyone can tell me it makes sense to pay Sutter 5m when they have two other pivots making 8.7m and 9.5m, do go on.

If you are Sutter and you can make bank as a FA, would you take a lot less to play behind Crosby and Malkin? It's not like this is some dynasty we all had hoped for where he can win multiple cups.

 

[joeyjake5]

If I was JR, I would try every thing to get SD back. A proposed trade, DP and BB for SD and EE. I would even throw in Lovejoy.

DP is at least two years away and maybe a bust. Not a great skater and not a great shot on the PP. His D will always be questioned.

BB for EE is nothing more than unrealized potential for unrealized potential.

At least with Simon, you are at least a # 4 D which the pens need.

DP is not even a half of a Letang. So if Letang doesn't come back, DP will never adequately replace Tanger.

 

[roquay]

XXXX/Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron/XXXX - Malkin - Bennett
Sundqvist - Matthias - Winnik
Spaling - Lapierre - Comeau
Farnham

Maatta - Letang
Cole - Petry
Pouliot - McQuaid
Lovejoy

Fleury
XXXX

Dump Kunitz for the best return possible--but dump him regardless. Dump Scuderi for anything, buy him out if you can't find a taker for even a 7th rounder. Move Sutter while his value is the highest. Ideally you'd get a young scoring line prospect for him, but I think you could land at least a 2nd rounder+.

That's a pretty damn solid team top to bottom. Good size, youth. I wish there was some way to pluck Matt Martin from the Isles. He's the perfect 4th liner for this team.

Now, we just have to find a way to land one more top-flight scoring line winger for either Sid or Geno. Shouldn't be too hard, right? It's only taken us a decade to get to this point.

I don't know how ready or capable Sundqvist is at playing on a scoring line, but I wouldn't mind seeing him and Bennett get time with Geno. A huge, talented, physical presence on Geno's wing? Yes, please.

I really like that line up coach. That 3rd line would be tough to play against. Matthias will get a pretty nice raise but is a very good player.

We don't need McQuaid though. Lovejoy is a good bottom pair guy and we have Dumo and Harrington to cover for injuries.

 

[ibar726]

DP is at least two years away and maybe a bust. Not a great skater and not a great shot on the PP. His D will always be questioned.

You are absolutely insane to be calling DP a potential bust already. He never even played a full season in the AHL, and has played less than half a season in the NHL. Thanks to the injury bug he ended up having to log more minutes than he was ready for on a higher pairing with some less than ideal partners. He was absolutely thrown to the wolves this season.

He's still only 21 years old (younger than Dumoulin/Harrington) and his game is still developing. He is a great skater with a dam good shot and great vision once he gets more confident. It's all but guaranteed that he will be a MUCH better PPQB than Letang. His defensive game is work in progress but has improved steadily every year since he was drafted. So yeah...any GM who even considers trading him at this point should be immediately fired...out of a cannon.

 

[pensfan71]

I'm all for bringing in Yak and Fehr (if possible). Dunno if Petry would leave Montreal.

Perron-Sid-Horny
Yak-Geno-Fehr
BB-Matthias-Sundqvist
Spaling-Lappy-Comeau

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Petry/Franson
Pouliot-McQuaid
Lovejoy

Flower
Fasth

 

[wej20]

For all those slotting Mathias in at 3rd line centre, isn't he mostly used as a winger?

 

[Hottubber]

For all those slotting Mathias in at 3rd line centre, isn't he mostly used as a winger?

He has played the majority of his time in van on the wing.

He made 1.75 this season and had 18 goals. He is going to get some stupid offers in FA. Think he will price himself out of being a 3rd line center for the pens

 

[drpepper]

He has played the majority of his time in van on the wing.

He made 1.75 this season and had 18 goals. He is going to get some stupid offers in FA. Think he will price himself out of being a 3rd line center for the pens

For all those slotting Mathias in at 3rd line centre, isn't he mostly used as a winger?

Over the past 2 years, 5v5, Winnik (8.26 face-offs per 60 (FO60)), Santorelli (15.96 FO60) and Matthias (16.83 FO60) have mostly played on the wings. Comparatively, Sutter has taken 54.37 FO60 over the past two years. For reference, Spaling has taken 7.77 FO60. I don't know if relying on players who haven't played center consistently for two seasons is a good idea.

Looking only at this year 5v5:

Player | FO60
Spaling | 8.22
Winnik | 6.67
Mattias | 9.00
Santorelli | 8.82
Sutter | 57.16

 

[cassius]

I've said all along that Sutter will get $25M/5 years from the Pens.

Paying him that kind of $ would be silly, but I fully expect it to happen.

 

[billybudd]

I like Matthias more than Sutter and always have, but what makes people think his contract will be for less than Sutter's next one, (at least in any meaningful sense)?

In a strong crop of free agents, Matthias well might slip through the cracks, but this one is very, very weak and Matthias should be right around the top.

After Vermette, assuming Fisher doesn't leave Nashville and Peverley doesn't play another game, Matthias is the next-best center (and yes, he plays wing in Vancouver). 2nd best center in free agency doesn't generally go cheap.


I'm all for selling high on Sutter this summer, but it's with the understanding that we can't replace him in the immediate term, unless something weird and unexpected works out perfectly (Sundqvist, Tikhonov, etc). And I don't want to hear that Spaling's as good, because, much as I don't like Sutter's style, Spaling's not on his level.

 

[Shady Machine]

Soderberg is the 2nd best center on the market not Matthias

 

[Anonkun]

Is he a bottom-six center on the team we trade him to though? Playing behind Sid/Geno would bump just about any other center in the league to the 3rd line, so maybe a team like Arizona views him as a 2C??

Either way, I don't like the idea of trading Sutter for picks straight up, a 2nd and a solid prospect maybe, but just picks? Nah.

It depends, does Arizona pick Strome with the 3rd overall pick? If so, they have Hanzal, Domi and Strome, so Sutter wouldn't really be needed unless they plan to use one of the two latter on the wing.

I'm not sure what kind of prospect the Penguins get get in return for Sutter, maybe the rights to an RFA, but out of the four RFA wingers I'd want, I don't see any of them leaving their respective teams (Wilson, Smith, Hayes, and Boedker).

Sooner or later, the Penguins are going to have to start developing their own talent, two 2nd round picks isn't a bad return. Saad and Kucherov were 2nd round picks, not that you're guaranteed that type of player, but I feel it would be a better alternative versus obtaining an underachieving player or a mid-level prospect.

 

[billybudd]

I do not agree that Soderberg is clearly better than either Sutter or Matthias and if he was inclined to sign for something reasonable, he wouldn't be leaving Boston.

 

[pensfan71]

It depends, does Arizona pick Strome with the 3rd overall pick? If so, they have Hanzal, Domi and Strome, so Sutter wouldn't really be needed unless they plan to use one of the two latter on the wing.

I'm not sure what kind of prospect the Penguins get get in return for Sutter, maybe the rights to an RFA, but out of the four RFA wingers I'd want, I don't see any of them leaving their respective teams (Wilson, Smith, Hayes, and Boedker).

Sooner or later, the Penguins are going to have to start developing their own talent, two 2nd round picks isn't a bad return. Saad and Kucherov were 2nd round picks, not that you're guaranteed that type of player, but I feel it would be a better alternative versus obtaining an underachieving player or a mid-level prospect.

Domi should be on the wing IMO. In the West, he'll get demolished by the massive centers

 

[Waffle Fries]

Domi should be on the wing IMO. In the West, he'll get demolished by the massive centers

Domi will definitely be on the wing. I'm sad the Domi-McDavid-Duclair line will never be.

 

[The Greatest 101]

I don't think they will move Sutter.

 

[pensfan71]

Domi will definitely be on the wing. I'm sad the Domi-McDavid-Duclair line will never be.

This actually breaks my heart. Living in Toronto, I wanted the Leafs to win, but after that it was Arizona or bust.

That line would be insane in 3 years once they've gotten the hang of the league

 

[Hottubber]

Im still hopng or a BB for Kassian swap in the offseason

Kassian is out with "back problems" but I think even if he were healthy, WD wouldn't put him in anyway. Might be a good change of scenery for both guys

 

[pensfan71]

I don't think they will move Sutter.

Unless you're getting a ridiculous upgrade on wing. Or partway through the season Sundqvist has actually shown he can handle those kind of minutes and matchups, you don't move him. You'll leave a hole at 3C. Maybe Spaling can fit in, but its still a risk. I hate Sutter but least he plays well in the postseason

 

[The Greatest 101]

Can't wait to see what we have in Sundqvist.Really.

 

[Riptide]

As a side note, does anyone know of any analysis of Rutherford's drafting in CAR?

It was far from good - at least between 2006 and 2010.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1770383

 

[billybudd]

Domi will definitely be on the wing. I'm sad the Domi-McDavid-Duclair line will never be.

Isn't the presumed #1 overall next season from Phoenix? Maybe the hockey gods will have pity next year.

Still think with all this bad press about Edmonton getting the pick (USA Today had an article yesterday saying how unfortunate it is for McDavid's career that he got picked by the worst possible team), the environment is right for him to refuse to play for the Oilers while doing only marginal damage to his reputation. If they won't trade him, KHL would love the publicity for the 3(?) years before he goes UFA.

Any other team picks him and pulling an Elway is problematic, but with the Oilers, I think everyone outside Edmonton would understand. Playing in Edmonton could cost him 10s of millions of (nonsalary) dollars due to lack of exposure--never mind that that's the team most-likely to screw up his development.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Isn't the presumed #1 overall next season from Phoenix? Maybe the hockey gods will have pity next year.

Still think with all this bad press about Edmonton getting the pick (USA Today had an article yesterday saying how unfortunate it is for McDavid's career that he got picked by the worst possible team), the environment is right for him to refuse to play for the Oilers while doing only marginal damage to his reputation. If they won't trade him, KHL would love the publicity for the 3(?) years before he goes UFA.

Any other team picks him and pulling an Elway is problematic, but with the Oilers, I think everyone outside Edmonton would understand. Playing in Edmonton could cost him 10s of millions of (nonsalary) dollars due to lack of exposure--never mind that that's the team most-likely to screw up his development.

I wouldn't blame McDavid at all for refusing to play for them. That organization is just so damaged. And despite the fact the Oilers, out of the bottom three teams, would probably give him the best forward group to start with, they are also the most likely to ruin him as a player.

I don't think he'll do that though.

 

[Shockmaster]

I wouldn't blame McDavid at all for refusing to play for them. That organization is just so damaged. And despite the fact the Oilers, out of the bottom three teams, would probably give him the best forward group to start with, they are also the most likely to ruin him as a player.

I don't think he'll do that though.

If I was McDavid I wouldn't play for the Oilers unless they fired Lowe and MacTavish.