Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVII : Why can't we always play like that?

[drpepper]

That all depends on your opinion of Despres and Bennett. I think they were fine 1st round picks.



Recouping traded draft picks (ie 2015 1st) and acquiring comparable young wingers (established or NHL-ready caught in numbers game) should be the goal when trading Sutter.

We shouldn't be committing big money to him long-term, we shouldn't let him go for nothing, and he's not what we need at 3C.

Despres was traded for Lovejoy. Bennett is currently barely playing and has been mishandled all season. They were fine picks, but their development and Despres's ultimate end in the Penguin system are not promising.

I completely disagree about recouping 2015 draft picks; that requires trusting the scouting, drafting, and development of the Pens's organization which has not been successful and even if it was successful requires at least two years for fruition. If Sutter is traded, the goal should be a player that can make an immediate impact on the NHL roster.

However, I am also pretty sure I disagree with you about what the Pens need at 3C and the actual reality of trying to get that.

 

[eXile59]

3C is not the hardest position to full so with his value high right now it makes sense to see what you can get for Sutter.

Even in this very thin fee agency pool you have Fisher, Cullen, Stoll, Vermette, Matthias. Some might be expensive but they won't cost you draft picks or prospects.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Despres was traded for Lovejoy. Bennett is currently barely playing and has been mishandled all season. They were fine picks, but their development and Despres's ultimate end in the Penguin system are not promising.

I completely disagree about recouping 2015 draft picks; that requires trusting the scouting, drafting, and development of the Pens's organization which has not been successful and even if it was successful requires at least two years for fruition.

So why bother drafting at all? Just because Despres and Bennett were mishandled doesn't mean we stop trying to bring in young talent altogether.

Being without as many early picks as we are over the next couple years doesn't bode well for our pool moving forward, particularly considering how many picks and young players we've given up recently.

If Sutter is traded, the goal should be a player that can make an immediate impact on the NHL roster.

Ideally. If not, then we aim for quality futures and use the new cap space elsewhere.

However, I am also pretty sure I disagree with you about what the Pens need at 3C and the actual reality of trying to get that.

Probably. At any rate, Sutter's lack of strength and poor possession game aren't something I want at 3C, especially long-term. If we can't get the ideal 3C right away (which Sutter isn't anyway), then we should stopgap and wait IMO.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I was operating under the assumption that neither Rutherford nor most of the rest of the organization, asst GMs, etc were changing because I don't think that they are.

In my ideal world, at the very least the scouting department would be reorganized with more focus of forwards and Europe, and the development of players would be changed. I don't think that there is currently available a GM that I would be interested in the Pens hiring which makes my more extreme ideal world completely unrealistic (rather than mostly).

I don't think Kunitz is that valueless especially if he continues to play decently in the playoffs. (But then again, I also don't think that Kunitz is finished as a player either and would be completely unsurprised to seem him as a Pen next year and playing better.)

Scuderi, I agree just needs to go.

EDIT:
However in terms of what I'd like to see versus reality

I am not sure a team that tweets this:



is seriously considering trading Sutter versus trying to re-sign him.

And there is the rub with rooting for the Pens against the Rangers. If they win the series, the status would quo remains and dooms and hopes for a better path.

 

[Shwag33]

Status quo! Keeping someone who elevates their game in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure this board went off the deepend.


We need more guys that play better in the playoffs. We've had too many that do the opposite for the last 5 years.

 

[djt153]

i love conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but cmon mannnnn

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

3C is not the hardest position to full so with his value high right now it makes sense to see what you can get for Sutter.

Even in this very thin fee agency pool you have Fisher, Cullen, Stoll, Vermette, Matthias. Some might be expensive but they won't cost you draft picks or prospects.

Ya, his value should be at an all time high. He's a former #11 overall pick who is only 26, just potted 20 goals, and has a knack for clutch play.

In a league with a dearth of second line pivots, JR can easily market him as a guy stuck behind the two best pivots in the league, and capable of being a top sixer.

He absolutely needs to get back a good, young, top nine winger.

 

[mpp9]

Ya, his value should be at an all time high. He's a former #11 overall pick who is only 26, just potted 20 goals, and has a knack for clutch play.

In a league with a dearth of second line pivots, JR can easily market him as a guy stuck behind the two best pivots in the league, and capable of being a top sixer.

He absolutely needs to get back a good, young, top nine winger.

Top 6 winger? Sure.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Top 6 winger? Sure.

There are plenty of good young fwds capable of being top sixers long term, currently playing on the third line.

As long as he is a skilled player with potential and not a plug, I'm more than fine with it.

 

[mpp9]

There are plenty of good young fwds capable of being top sixers long term, currently playing on the third line.

As long as he is a skilled player with potential and not a plug, I'm more than fine with it.

Who would you target?

 

[pengwins1587]

Who would you target?

Baertchi and vancouvers 1st for sutter and a late pick or something could work and I've always like baertchi. Was pissed we didn't take a chance on him at the deadline for what it cost. Played for Johnson in Portland to.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

Guys, I'm torn.... do you think Yakupov could be a god fit here on Malkin's wing if we were to swing a deal with Edmonton?

 

[pengwins1587]

Guys, I'm torn.... do you think Yakupov could be a god fit here on Malkin's wing if we were to swing a deal with Edmonton?

I think so but I also don't think Edmonton will trade yak unless it's an overpayment

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

I think so but I also don't think Edmonton will trade yak unless it's an overpayment

Not so sure it would take a massive overpayment to get him. I think he has chemistry with Perron. Adding Malkin to that line would be instant magic.

 

[pengwins1587]

Not so sure it would take a massive overpayment to get him. I think he has chemistry with Perron. Adding Malkin to that line would be instant magic.

Assuming they would still want sutter which I have no idea if they do, I think they'd want sutter and Harrington atleast. Maybe a pick on top of it. If it was sutter + dumo for yak I'd pull the trigger.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Who would you target?

Have to wait and see how the draft (trades, perhaps top picks) and FA go first. Rosters will be pretty dynamic around those times and needs can become strengths and vice versa.

I don't think Sutter, if he is traded, will be moved before FA starts and they have a capable replacement like Winnik, for instance.

 

[mpp9]

Have to wait and see how the draft (trades, perhaps top picks) and FA go first. Rosters will be pretty dynamic around those times and needs can become strengths and vice versa.

I don't think Sutter, if he is traded, will be moved before FA starts and they have a capable replacement like Winnik, for instance.

Unless Sutter demands money and a role we can't give him, I just don't see us moving him.

They won't commit to a rebuild/transition time period. And personally, I don't see why we'd move one of our few playoff performers.

Winnik's a decent player, but he isn't centering a 3rd line on a team with any hope of doing damage in the playoffs. He's not dangerous at all. Excellent defensive forward and PKer. Brings some size. And I wouldn't mind keeping him around, but as a winger on the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

3C is not the hardest position to full so with his value high right now it makes sense to see what you can get for Sutter.

Even in this very thin fee agency pool you have Fisher, Cullen, Stoll, Vermette, Matthias. Some might be expensive but they won't cost you draft picks or prospects.

I want Soderberg. Winnik-Soderberg-Comeau as your third line. Spaling and Sundqvist as 2/3s of your fourth.

 

[wings5]

Panarin and Donskoi would be ideal addition, they should really look to the European leagues to add skill to the top 6, theres likely more skill available there than in the market this summer. To add, Radulov, Moller, Kovar, and Plotnikov are also available, the last two being only 25 and established National team players.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Imagine...

Crosby
Malkin
Sutter
Sundqvist

Down the middle they'd be 6'3" essentially starting at Geno.

Fill out from there.

 

[djt153]

is sundqvist equally good at center or on the wing?

 

[KIRK]

I was operating under the assumption that neither Rutherford nor most of the rest of the organization, asst GMs, etc were changing because I don't think that they are.

In my ideal world, at the very least the scouting department would be reorganized with more focus of forwards and Europe, and the development of players would be changed. I don't think that there is currently available a GM that I would be interested in the Pens hiring which makes my more extreme ideal world completely unrealistic (rather than mostly).

I don't think Kunitz is that valueless especially if he continues to play decently in the playoffs. (But then again, I also don't think that Kunitz is finished as a player either and would be completely unsurprised to seem him as a Pen next year and playing better.)

Scuderi, I agree just needs to go.

EDIT:
However in terms of what I'd like to see versus reality

I am not sure a team that tweets this:



is seriously considering trading Sutter versus trying to re-sign him.

Who said they were seriously considering trading him?

Unless Sutter demands money and a role we can't give him, I just don't see us moving him.

They won't commit to a rebuild/transition time period. And personally, I don't see why we'd move one of our few playoff performers.

Winnik's a decent player, but he isn't centering a 3rd line on a team with any hope of doing damage in the playoffs. He's not dangerous at all. Excellent defensive forward and PKer. Brings some size. And I wouldn't mind keeping him around, but as a winger on the 3rd or 4th line.

Role isn't the issue. Money isn't even the issue, as long as you're content to continue to hang Sid and Geno out to dry. It's a cap world. Something has to give. To sign Sutter AND give him the help he's going to need to justify that contract means scrimping in the top six, perhaps even more now than we already are.

is sundqvist equally good at center or on the wing?

Not sure where he's better, but he absolutely can play on the wing. In theory, he could be an excellent LW for Geno if he were slotted there. But, for an organization you can't trust to draft or develop young players, how could you expect them to slot and let a young talented player grow on Geno's LW?

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

If they're keeping Sutter, they should move Spaling to free up some $. Its oner the other in my view.

BTW, I see them signing Petry and letting both Martin & Ehrhoff go.

Hope they add some muscle by also signing Stewart & Matthias.

 

[BADoglick]

Sutter has been one of our best players these past few games, just like he was last playoffs. He had a 20 goal season. But he's not the 3rd line center we want? Who is? Vermette, the guy who is being healthy scratched by Chicago? Stoll, the same guy who just got caught busted for possession of coke and ex? Soderberg? We don't want to waste too much money on our third line, but that's your idea? Besides, why would he sign here to be stuck on a third line? And what do we expect to get in return? A first round pick, that at best will have no impact until Malkin and Sid are three years older? A winger prospect who may or may not contribute next season? Not to mention we continually fail to identify these people. We just magically want a cheaper, bigger, better third line center, and to trade the one we consider over rated, for some big, cheap, awesome second line winger. Ok, name realistic names. Besides, we have cap space. Just identify and try to sign wingers like Frolik, Stafford, Belesky, Glencross, etc... Sutter is not the problem.

I'm sick of all this group think on these boards sometimes. Also the lack of knowledge of other team's players when complaining about our own. Please, no more proposed depth charts that contain xxxxx's or (Trade/FA)-Sid-Hornqvist, etc. I think a lot of us here aren't really grounded in reality.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Unless Sutter demands money and a role we can't give him, I just don't see us moving him.

They won't commit to a rebuild/transition time period. And personally, I don't see why we'd move one of our few playoff performers.

Winnik's a decent player, but he isn't centering a 3rd line on a team with any hope of doing damage in the playoffs. He's not dangerous at all. Excellent defensive forward and PKer. Brings some size. And I wouldn't mind keeping him around, but as a winger on the 3rd or 4th line.

I don't think it's wise to commit the 5m (I believe he will want), long term, to a guy that goes into 2-3 month long comas. It's great he came alive the last few weeks. On the flip side, him sleepwalking since Dec played a big part in them needing a desperation win in Buffalo.