Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVII : Why can't we always play like that?

[Riptide]

All figures are cap numbers, not salaries.

Projected 2015-16 salary ceiling: ....70-73,000,000
Projected 2015-16 cap spending: ........58,595,000
Projected offseason cap space: .......11-14,405,000



PITTSBURGH PENGUINS

Forward.................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Evgeni Malkin|

C​

|

28​

|

9,500,000​

|

9,500,000​

|

9,500,000​

Sidney Crosby|

C​

|

27​

|

8,700,000​

|

8,700,000​

|

8,700,000​

Patric Hornqvist|

RW​

|

28​

|

4,250,000​

|

4,250,000​

|

4,250,000​

Chris Kunitz|

LW​

|

35​

|

3,850,000​

|

3,850,000​

|

3,850,000​

David Perron|

LW​

|

26​

|

3,812,500​

|

3,812,500​

|

UFA​

Brandon Sutter|

C​

|

26​

|

3,300,000​

|

3,300,000​

|

UFA​

Nick Spaling|

LW​

|

26​

|

2,200,000​

|

2,200,000​

|

UFA​

Maxim Lapierre|

C​

|

29​

|

1,100,000​

|

UFA​

Steve Downie|

RW​

|

27​

|

1,000,000​

|

UFA​

Beau Bennett|

RW​

|

23​

|

900,000​

|

RFA​

Blake Comeau|

LW​

|

29​

|

700,000​

|

UFA​

Craig Adams|

RW​

|

37​

|

700,000​

|

UFA​

Daniel Winnik|

LW​

|

29​

|

650,000​

|

UFA​

Defense.................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

.2016-17​

Kris Letang|

D​

|

27​

|

7,250,000​

|

7,250,000​

|

7,250,000​

Paul Martin|

D​

|

33​

|

5,000,000​

|

UFA​

Christian Ehrhoff|

D​

|

32​

|

4,000,000​

|

UFA​

Rob Scuderi|

D​

|

36​

|

3,375,000​

|

3,375,000​

|

3,375,000​

Ben Lovejoy|

D​

|

31​

|

1,100,000​

|

1,200,000​

|

UFA​

Derrick Pouliot|

D​

|

21​

|

863,333​

|

863,333​

|

863,333​

Ian Cole|

D​

|

26​

|

600,000​

|

RFA​

Goalie...................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

.2016-17​

Marc-Andre Fleury|

G​

|

30​

|

5,000,000​

|

5,750,000​

|

5,750,000​

Thomas Greiss|

G​

|

29​

|

1,000,000​

|

UFA​

Injured reserve......​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

.2016-17​

Pascal Dupuis|

RW​

|

35​

|

3,750,000​

|

3,750,000​

|

3,750,000​

Olli Maatta|

D​

|

20​

|

894,167​

|

894,167​

|

RFA​

WILKES-BARRE/SCRANTON PENGUINS

Forward...............​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Jayson Megna|

RW​

|

25​

|

874,125​

|

RFA​

Josh Archibald|

RW​

|

22​

|

659,167​

|

659,167​

|

659,167​

Scott Wilson|

LW​

|

22​

|

655,000​

|

655,000​

|

RFA​

Bryan Rust|

RW​

|

22​

|

652,500​

|

652,500​

|

RFA​

Adam Payerl|

RW​

|

24​

|

626,667​

|

RFA​

Anton Zlobin|

LW​

|

22​

|

608,333​

|

608,333​

|

RFA​

Matia Marcantuoni|

C​

|

21​

|

608,333​

|

608,333​

|

608,333​

Dominik Uher|

C​

|

22​

|

601,667​

|

RFA​

Tom Kuhnhackl|

LW​

|

23​

|

598,333​

|

RFA​

Andrew Ebbett|

C​

|

32​

|

550,000​

|

UFA​

Bobby Farnham|

LW​

|

26​

|

550,000​

|

RFA​

Nick Drazenovic|

C​

|

28​

|

550,000​

|

UFA​

Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond|

RW​

|

29​

|

550,000​

|

UFA​

Defense.............................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Brian Dumoulin|

D​

|

23​

|

831,667​

|

RFA​

Nick D'Agostino|

D​

|

24​

|

625,000​

|

RFA​

Scott Harrington|

D​

|

21​

|

589,167​

|

589,167​

|

RFA​

Reid McNeill|

D​

|

22​

|

575,000​

|

RFA​

Taylor Chorney|

D​

|

27​

|

550,000​

|

UFA​

Goalie................................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Matt Murray|

G​

|

20​

|

620,000​

|

620,000​

|

620,000​

Jeff Zatkoff|

G​

|

27​

|

600,000​

|

600,000​

|

UFA​

WHEELING NAILERS

Forward........................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Jean-Sebastien Dea|

C​

|

21​

|

598,333​

|

598,333​

|

598,333​

|

RFA​

Defense........................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Harrison Ruopp|

D​

|

21​

|

650,833​

|

650,833​

|

RFA​

Goalie...........................​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

2014-15​

|

2015-16​

|

2016-17​

Eric Hartzell|

G​

|

25​

|

550,000​

|

RFA​

SIGNED PROSPECTS

Player​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

Current Team​

|

Contract​

Kasperi Kapanen|

RW​

|

18​

|

KalPa (Liiga)​

|

3 years/925,000 per​

Oskar Sundqvist|

C​

|

20​

|

SkellefteÃ¥ (SHL)​

|

3 years/708,333 per​

Tristan Jarry|

G​

|

19​

|

Edmonton (WHL)​

|

3 years/650,833 per​

UNSIGNED PROSPECTS

Player​

​

​

|

Pos.​

|

Age​

|

Current Team (League)​

Anthony Angello|

F​

|

18​

|Omaha (USHL)

Dane Birks|

D​

|

19​

|Michigan Tech (WCHA)

Teddy Blueger|

F​

|

20​

|Minnesota State (WCHA)

Blaine Byron|

F​

|

20​

|Maine (HEA)

Jake Guentzel|

F​

|

20​

|Nebraska-Omaha (NCHC)

Troy Josephs|

F​

|

20​

|Clarkson (ECAC)

Sam Lafferty|

F​

|

19​

|Brown (ECAC)

Jaden Lindo|

F​

|

19​

|Owen Sound (OHL)

Sean Maguire|

G​

|

22​

|Boston University (HEA)

Alexander Pechurskiy|

G​

|

24​

|Magnitogorsk (KHL)

Ryan Segalla|

D​

|

20​

|Connecticut (HEA)

Jeff Taylor|

D​

|

20​

|Union (ECAC)

Pending FA forwards:

Fleischmann, Tlusty, Ryder, Glencross, Williams, Vermette, Soderberg, Frolik, Slater, Ward, Fehr, Matthias, Santorelli, Booth, Winnik, Morrow, Lindstrom, Kennedy, Beleskey, Erat, Stafford, Stewart, Richards, Briere, Letestu, Horcroff, Cole, Cleary, Roy, Upshall, Bergenheim, Kopecky, Stoll, Fisher, Cullen, O.Jokinen, Havlat, MSL, Condra

Click to read more...

 

[Riptide]

Last 2 posts.

Both guys are hurt IMHO.

A player doesn't fall off a cliff like Perron has unless he is hurt. He's never been the type to look like he doesn't care. Why would a guy who has always played with passion and intensity suddenly stop doing that?

Either he no longer cares or he is hurt.. I'll leave it up to each individual to decide which scenario they think is true.

And with all of that... if it were up to me I'm still going to sign him to an extension. There's just not enough talent out there not to. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him or something... but I'm certainly not going to let him walk for free as a FA next year.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

With Sutter's recent resurgence and the fact that he's demonstrated over the past 2 post seasons that he's the type of player who thrives playing in the playoffs, you have to wonder if it'll convince GMJR to sign him to an extension this summer or maximize his value on the trade market this summer. He's a UFA next summer so this is quite the dilemma for our senile GM.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd still get rid of Kunitz, Sutter and Scuderi.

 

[Sideline]

With Sutter's recent resurgence and the fact that he's demonstrated over the past 2 post seasons that he's the type of player who thrives playing in the playoffs, you have to wonder if it'll convince GMJR to sign him to an extension this summer or maximize his value on the trade market this summer. He's a UFA next summer so this is quite the dilemma for our senile GM.

I'm coming around to the view that if you can keep him for $4.5m or less you just accept Sutter-the-friendly-ghost in the regular season. He's been clutch when the games matter. If he was this good all season he'd be a $6M+ player.

 

[shureshot66]

I'm not saying anything new here, of course, but yeah, a trade is definitely the way to go with Sutter.

He has significant faults, but he also has value. There have to be teams out there desperate for center help who would play him as a scoring second-liner instead of his current role. There's just no way the Pens can justify paying him what he'll be looking for next summer. He's going to get offers at or approaching $5M. Can't keep him.

Rutherford dealt him in a hockey trade once, and he needs to do it again. Preferably around the draft where his value would be higher.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not saying anything new here, of course, but yeah, a trade is definitely the way to go with Sutter.

He has significant faults, but he also has value. There have to be teams out there desperate for center help who would play him as a scoring second-liner instead of his current role. There's just no way the Pens can justify paying him what he'll be looking for next summer. He's going to get offers at or approaching $5M. Can't keep him.

Rutherford dealt him in a hockey trade once, and he needs to do it again. Preferably around the draft where his value would be higher.

100%. People shouldn't let Sutter's play yesterday make them forget how he plays 90% of the time. He's an overrated asset we can sell high on.

 

[Sideline]

100%. People shouldn't let Sutter's play yesterday make them forget how he plays 90% of the time. He's an overrated asset we can sell high on.

Do we really care if he's a ghost all year, but turns into all star for the playoffs?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'm not saying anything new here, of course, but yeah, a trade is definitely the way to go with Sutter.

He has significant faults, but he also has value. There have to be teams out there desperate for center help who would play him as a scoring second-liner instead of his current role. There's just no way the Pens can justify paying him what he'll be looking for next summer. He's going to get offers at or approaching $5M. Can't keep him.

Rutherford dealt him in a hockey trade once, and he needs to do it again. Preferably around the draft where his value would be higher.

I wonder if JR can get Tanner Glass for him.

 

[shureshot66]

Do we really care if he's a ghost all year, but turns into all star for the playoffs?

Well, we care when it runs his market value much too high to consider re-signing. GMs will remember those playoff performances if he reaches UFA next July.

Again, I'm just echoing what many others have already said, but I'd rather see them get a third-line center better suited to that role -- more physical and better along the boards. And cheaper, of course. Use the money saved on more top-six help to replace the secondary scoring lost by Sutter.

They might miss him on the PK as much as anything, but maybe they'll re-sign Winnik and/or Lapierre to offset that.

 

[Sideline]

Well, we care when it runs his market value much too high to consider re-signing. GMs will remember those playoff performances if he reaches UFA next July.

Again, I'm just echoing what many others have already said, but I'd rather see them get a third-line center better suited to that role -- more physical and better along the boards. And cheaper, of course. Use the money saved on more top-six help to replace the secondary scoring lost by Sutter.

They might miss him on the PK as much as anything, but maybe they'll re-sign Winnik and/or Lapierre to offset that.

That's fair. Sundqvist could be the guy you want a in couple years. It won't be easy finding that kind of guy externally.

 

[mpp9]

Sutter at 5+ mil? No. Sutter at 4-4.5? Yes.

There are many other ways to clear up cap room. Short of him landing us a stud winger for Sid, keep him if you can.

 

[drpepper]

Well, we care when it runs his market value much too high to consider re-signing. GMs will remember those playoff performances if he reaches UFA next July.

Again, I'm just echoing what many others have already said, but I'd rather see them get a third-line center better suited to that role -- more physical and better along the boards. And cheaper, of course. Use the money saved on more top-six help to replace the secondary scoring lost by Sutter.

They might miss him on the PK as much as anything, but maybe they'll re-sign Winnik and/or Lapierre to offset that.

Do you have examples of your less expensive, more physical 3C? Preferably that are available.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Do we really care if he's a ghost all year, but turns into all star for the playoffs?

What shureshot said. Although I don't mind if he were more expensive and brought a lot more to the table ie Staal or Hanzal.

Most importantly, the 3C has to play a heavy game considering that doesn't apply to either Sid or Geno. I want to win wars of attrition.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

Pre-draft lottery, I was convinced that Sutter would've been a perfect fit for Edmonton but now that they have RNH, Draisatl and either McDavid/Eichel down the middle, no way do I see them being interested in Sutter anymore. Hometown boy who would've fit a gaping hole for them.

However, I can still see them being interested in both Harrington and Kunitz. Harrington because he fits a need and the fact that he'd grow with them. More importantly, he's Hall's bff and it could help go a long way with the mental make-up of their team. Kunitz because he'd fit on their 3rd line and help provide leadership. In particular, they may see him as a great fit to help guide a player like McDavid given that he's flanked Crosby's LW for so long. He wouldn't play with McDavid but help with the mental aspect and guidance a little.

Who can I see the Pens possibly being interested in? Either getting back our 1st or perhaps even Nail Yakupov

He could benefit greatly from an all-star Russian countryman centering his line.

 

[Riptide]

With Sutter's recent resurgence and the fact that he's demonstrated over the past 2 post seasons that he's the type of player who thrives playing in the playoffs, you have to wonder if it'll convince GMJR to sign him to an extension this summer or maximize his value on the trade market this summer. He's a UFA next summer so this is quite the dilemma for our senile GM.

I'd still get rid of Kunitz, Sutter and Scuderi.

Same. His value couldn't be higher (well perhaps if he had a long term contract in place), and I'd also still trade him.

What he does on the ice aside in the playoffs, I still do not think he's the right #3C for us going forward, and I'd still pay Soderberg 1.5-2m more to have him.

 

[Riptide]

Pre-draft lottery, I was convinced that Sutter would've been a perfect fit for Edmonton but now that they have RNH, Draisatl and either McDavid/Eichel down the middle, no way do I see them being interested in Sutter anymore. Hometown boy who would've fit a gaping hole for them.

I don't know... there still might be some interest there in having someone who can play a top 9 role, be good defensively, win draws, not inept offensively, and be a leader. He'd also give them a little more time to ease McDavid and LD into the lineup.

 

[shureshot66]

That's fair. Sundqvist could be the guy you want a in couple years. It won't be easy finding that kind of guy externally.

Do you have examples of your less expensive, more physical 3C? Preferably that are available.

These are both great points. I admit I didn't have a specific name in mind. Although, yes, we can dream that Sundqvist might grow into that role.

 

[Gurglesons]

Same. His value couldn't be higher (well perhaps if he had a long term contract in place), and I'd also still trade him.

What he does on the ice aside in the playoffs, I still do not think he's the right #3C for us going forward, and I'd still pay Soderberg 1.5-2m more to have him.

The thing is, is Sutter is really our only luxury. It really depends on who we can sign for our bottom six next year. If Winnik, Comeau, and Downie all walk, we have to sign a player like Soderberg or resign Sutter. If we can resign Winnik, maybe you roll Spaling in the third line center position to start the season and use Sutter as an asset for a wing for Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

Sutter at 5+ mil? No. Sutter at 4-4.5? Yes.

There are many other ways to clear up cap room. Short of him landing us a stud winger for Sid, keep him if you can.

Those numbers only work IF (a) you move Scuderi and Kunitz this summer and (b) you're planning to slot Sundqvist onto Malkin's LW and expect a huge impact and (c) you're not planning to surround Sutter with the 3M on each wing caliber guys you need to make Sutter the type of player to impact a game at ES in the playoffs and more consistently overall to justify that investment.

I'm with shureshot66. This team is bereft of assets. A team in need of a 2C is going to look at him and say 'he's a 2C if we give him a pair of 4M wingers' and they're going to be willing to pay that type of price.

I'd rather have that return and the cap flexibility than continue to ask Sid and Geno to make due with less.

Extending Sutter strikes me as a decision born of thinking similar to those who advocate extending Martin.

These are both great points. I admit I didn't have a specific name in mind. Although, yes, we can dream that Sundqvist might grow into that role.

I think you go into next year with Spaling as a 1 year stop gap and give Sundqvist every shot to grow into that 3C role as early as next year.

And, remember, when you do that, you're not just removing Sutter from the roster. You're adding the assets that Sutter after the playoffs will get you AND 2.5M or so in cap flexibility next year as well as 4.5M+ in long term cap flexibility. Losing Sutter isn't zero sum . . . there's a tradeoff, and it's not as if what you get in return won't help Sid and Geno immeasurably.

 

[drpepper]

Those numbers only work IF (a) you move Scuderi and Kunitz this summer and (b) you're planning to slot Sundqvist onto Malkin's LW and expect a huge impact and (c) you're not planning to surround Sutter with the 3M on each wing caliber guys you need to make Sutter the type of player to impact a game at ES in the playoffs and more consistently overall to justify that investment.

I'm with shureshot66. This team is bereft of assets. A team in need of a 2C is going to look at him and say 'he's a 2C if we give him a pair of 4M wingers' and they're going to be willing to pay that type of price.

I'd rather have that return and the cap flexibility than continue to ask Sid and Geno to make due with less.

Extending Sutter strikes me as a decision born of thinking similar to those who advocate extending Martin.



I think you go into next year with Spaling as a 1 year stop gap and give Sundqvist every shot to grow into that 3C role as early as next year.

And, remember, when you do that, you're not just removing Sutter from the roster. You're adding the assets that Sutter after the playoffs will get you AND 2.5M or so in cap flexibility next year as well as 4.5M+ in long term cap flexibility. Losing Sutter isn't zero sum . . . there's a tradeoff, and it's not as if what you get in return won't help Sid and Geno immeasurably.

What team(s) and what return(s) do you expect in regards to Sutter?

Also who do you see on Malkin's wing that you are either paying for in FA (cap space) or trading for (assets)?

It seem like people want to get rid of Sutter with few realistic expectations about return, replacement, or upgrading the team.

(Again Spaling is Sutter who doesn't produce as much on his own and Winnik hasn't consistently played center and most of his production is from top 6 minutes & teammates. At best, they are stop-gaps.)

 

[shureshot66]

I think you go into next year with Spaling as a 1 year stop gap and give Sundqvist every shot to grow into that 3C role as early as next year.

That makes more sense than trying to find someone in free agency, yup.

 

[mpp9]

What are we getting in return for Sutter? He has one year left on his deal and can get stupid money next summer if he chooses to. I don't buy his trade value exceeds his value to our team if he buys into being a 3C here. Obviously, if he wants a bigger role elsewhere, then you get what you can.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Assuming we can trade Sutter somewhere (hopefully for a first round pick in 2016 or second round pick in 2015, or solid prospect), then I would target both Edmonton and Buffalo in search for a young center. Assuming Edmonton keeps McDavid and Buffalo keeps Eichel (which is a natural assumption to make at this point), then I would think guys like Leon Draisaitl, Anton Lander, Bogdan Yakimov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Johan Larsson and perhaps even Sam Reinhart would be available.

Both of those teams will accelerate their rebuild, imo. And both are looking for a starting goaltender. I would love to hear what both teams would be willing to part with for Fleury. If the Oil would be willing to part with Draisaitl and our '15 first rounder, you gotta take that deal. For Buffalo, Girgensons? I doubt he's available, but he's basically a young Jordan Staal with more offensive upside imo.

So for argument's sake, we trade Sutter for a second rounder in 2015...say to Arizona. Then trade Fleury to Edmonton for Draisaitl and our pick back. Then you sign Niemi as a UFA and bring in a strong second goaltender to compete with him. Short term deals. You would at least have Draisaitl, a first and two seconds in this draft. And you still have Letang, Kunitz, Scuderi, Spaling that you can move out for younger assets.

IC mentioned in the postgame thread about how frickin' small we look compared to the Western Conference series, or even the Isles-Caps series. A big guy like Draisaitl would be great to acquire, and he's highly skilled too. Girgensons is big, too. Grigorenko is more finesse but isn't small at all. Yakimov is HUGE.

AND, there are a LOT of big wingers available in this year's draft...and a lot of them are very close to reaching the NHL.

We absolutely need to get bigger and stronger (and younger, obviously).

 

[drpepper]

Assuming we can trade Sutter somewhere (hopefully for a first round pick in 2016 or second round pick in 2015, or solid prospect), then I would target both Edmonton and Buffalo in search for a young center. Assuming Edmonton keeps McDavid and Buffalo keeps Eichel (which is a natural assumption to make at this point), then I would think guys like Leon Draisaitl, Anton Lander, Bogdan Yakimov, Mikhail Grigorenko, Johan Larsson and perhaps even Sam Reinhart would be available.

Both of those teams will accelerate their rebuild, imo. And both are looking for a starting goaltender. I would love to hear what both teams would be willing to part with for Fleury. If the Oil would be willing to part with Draisaitl and our '15 first rounder, you gotta take that deal. For Buffalo, Girgensons? I doubt he's available, but he's basically a young Jordan Staal with more offensive upside imo.

So for argument's sake, we trade Sutter for a second rounder in 2015...say to Arizona. Then trade Fleury to Edmonton for Draisaitl and our pick back. Then you sign Niemi as a UFA and bring in a strong second goaltender to compete with him. Short term deals. You would at least have Draisaitl, a first and two seconds in this draft. And you still have Letang, Kunitz, Scuderi, Spaling that you can move out for younger assets.

IC mentioned in the postgame thread about how frickin' small we look compared to the Western Conference series, or even the Isles-Caps series. A big guy like Draisaitl would be great to acquire, and he's highly skilled too. Girgensons is big, too. Grigorenko is more finesse but isn't small at all. Yakimov is HUGE.

AND, there are a LOT of big wingers available in this year's draft...and a lot of them are very close to reaching the NHL.

We absolutely need to get bigger and stronger (and younger, obviously).

There is no way those C's are available without steep costs (think Letang or Maatta not Fleury & Sutter). Neither team needs to trade their C's and neither Sutter nor Fleury are good or cheap enough to entice BUF and EDM.

Also I am continually surprised by people expecting this team to draft and develop talent. What good are first and second round picks when they become Despres (Lovejoy) or Bennett?