Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Kovalev27]

Probably should have stayed away from Tavares. As tempting as it was they should have worried about paying their own big 3 forwards.

My guess is they’ll have to let Gardiner go and they’ll have to trade nylander.

Buchnevich, Pionk and a 3rd round pick for nylander and hortons LTIR contract.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Yeah, let's actually get there and then bemoan the situation. Besides, if that really is an issue, they make for good potential trade options. One can make a deal and get more assets into the organization. Just need to identify which pieces one is willing to move for the right deal.

I addressed it in my edit, but I'm right there with you. Toronto's problem is not that they signed Tavares, it's that their best players are forwards, who almost always tend to earn more than similar-tier defenders. Also, the Marleau contract is the albatross, not Tavares (yet, anyway).

Also, the Horton contract is going to become an issue with regards to Toronto's summer cap. That thing is going to kill all their maneuverability in the offseason.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Toronto screwed themselves with Tavares? I don't think so, I think they have a window of contending that will be the next 3-4 years. Who cares if their cap situation is messed up after that as long as they win in the window. That's what Dubas is building for.

Chicago is a tire fire now but they won 3 Cups in 6 years. Would they trade even one of those Cups for a clean cap sheet? No.

The ultimate goal of all of this isn't to build the best team on paper, acquire the most assets, make the "smartest" moves as the GM per capfriendly evaluation.

It's to win the damn Cup.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Leafs situation is good food for thought when it comes to "accelerating the rebuild."

That, and they waited until the RIGHT time to make such a move.

 

[Bob Richards]

^^^
It's a good problem to have.

r u sure

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

r u sure

Better than our current problem. Too good to tank and too bad to make the playoffs

 

[Beer League Sniper]

That, and they waited until the RIGHT time to make such a move.

They paid elite money for an elite player. And they did it right at the moment their young talent was starting to mature. I don't see the issue. It's the next tier of player down that always gets overpaid in relation to their on-ice impact. Those are the guys we overpay.

 

[haveandare]

That is a bad deal for Matthews imo. Looks like he threw out a number and they took it without even trying to negotiate with him.

 

[Thirty One]

That is a bad deal for Matthews imo. Looks like he threw out a number and they took it without even trying to negotiate with him.

I'm sure that's exactly how it went down.

 

[DutchNYR]

They paid elite money for an elite player. And they did it right at the moment their young talent was starting to mature. I don't see the issue. It's the next tier of player down that always gets overpaid in relation to their on-ice impact. Those are the guys we overpay.

I agree - and it’s not that hard to evaluate when you are looking at elite players. In Tavares his case, just look at all the sub-par wingers he has been carrying for all these years. Their production playing with him is so much higher than playing without him.

We on the other hand always tend to pay big money for players who just had their career year and (slowly) start regressing once they are here.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

That is a bad deal for Matthews imo. Looks like he threw out a number and they took it without even trying to negotiate with him.

Looks to me like he wanted something close to the McDavid deal (16.67% of cap) for an 8-year deal, and took a "discount" for the 5-year deal (14.63%), since it only buys out 1 UFA season.

I just don't think Toronto got enough of a discount. But, franchise players kind of have the team over a barrel in these negotiations. You just hope that they care enough about keeping the team together to take a little less. It doesn't appear that Matthews really took a discount, or maybe he's just deluding himself into thinking he did. I mean, the kid decided to go over to Switzerland for his draft season to cash in, rather than playing "for free" in the CHL or USHL.

 

[haveandare]

I'm sure that's exactly how it went down.

I said it "looks like" meaning the team didn't seem to fight for itself very well. This is comparable to McDavid but Matthews is absolutely no McDavid.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Looks to me like he wanted something close to the McDavid deal (16.67% of cap) for an 8-year deal, and took a "discount" for the 5-year deal (14.63%), since it only buys out 1 UFA season.

I just don't think Toronto got enough of a discount. But, franchise players kind of have the team over a barrel in these negotiations. You just hope that they care enough about keeping the team together to take a little less. It doesn't appear that Matthews really took a discount, or maybe he's just deluding himself into thinking he did. I mean, the kid decided to go over to Switzerland for his draft season to cash in, rather than playing "for free" in the CHL or USHL.

Playing in Switzerland was more of taking advantage of being born within a few days span where he could actually go play against better competition to make his transition to the NHL easier than it was to make money, although I’m sure it was a nice bonus

 

[NYR Viper]

Playing in Switzerland was more of taking advantage of being born within a few days span where he could actually go play against better competition to make his transition to the NHL easier than it was to make money, although I’m sure it was a nice bonus

That and live in a beautiful area and get used to being away from home in a foreign country, pro travel, etc. There were A LOT of positives

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Playing in Switzerland was more of taking advantage of being born within a few days span where he could actually go play against better competition to make his transition to the NHL easier than it was to make money, although I’m sure it was a nice bonus

Fair enough.

And this contract may be the new normal for elite players coming off of ELCs, but it just seems like too much by a few million. They only bought 1 UFA year. That number just seems very high in that context.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Fair enough.

And this contract may be the new normal for elite players coming off of ELCs, but it just seems like too much by a few million. They only bought 1 UFA year. That number just seems very high in that context.

McDavid’s contract set the new norm and every young elite player’s agent is going to negotiate off of that standard, for better or worse. I think it’s a little too much for Matthews based on Eichel’s contract, but you gotta do what you have to do to keep the backbone of your team

 

[Gardner McKay]

I said it "looks like" meaning the team didn't seem to fight for itself very well. This is comparable to McDavid but Matthews is absolutely no McDavid.

A player is worth what a team is willing to pay.

 

[Thirty One]

I said it "looks like" meaning the team didn't seem to fight for itself very well. This is comparable to McDavid but Matthews is absolutely no McDavid.

Well McDavid negotiated a larger deal but then gave some of it back because he didn't want to look greedy or some shit, so that's kind of a unique situation. McDavid's contract also buys 4 UFA years.

 

[haveandare]

A player is worth what a team is willing to pay.

So there's no such thing as bad deals?

A 70 point player getting paid very close to what a 100+ point player makes in the same stage of their careers and contracts is bad.

 

[Ola]

As long as Marner knows someone got his back, he'll be lighting it up. Has he ever been hit hard? Does that impact his game?

Between Nylander and Marner, I think both would do well on other teams.

I lover Marner, but I saw Willy Nyls the other day, darn it was not pretty...

I recon he will get going. But it shows that it’s not only about putting out the skates on the ice, the marginals are small.

 

[DutchShamrock]

File this one away. Acquire Horton along with other assets from the leafs. $5.5m that runs through next season. Maybe it's a high pick, maybe Nylander for Fast. Depending on their crunch, they may in a position where they can't match an offersheet over the summer.

 

[haveandare]

Well McDavid negotiated a larger deal but then gave some of it back because he didn't want to look greedy or some ****, so that's kind of a unique situation. McDavid's contract also buys 4 UFA years.

I like Matthews and think he's a great player I'm just surprised Toronto gave him this much money on a shorter deal this far ahead of time, especially when they're about to be in a bad, bad cap situation.

 

[Gardner McKay]

So there's no such thing as bad deals?

A 70 point player getting paid very close to what a 100+ point player makes in the same stage of their careers and contracts is bad.

I didn't say that.

I said a player is worth what a team is willing to pay. You may not feel that AM should get a McDavid type contract. Obviously Toronto wanted to lock up their franchise player and was willing to shell out that much to do so.

 

[Fitzy]

About time for a new lockout by the look of things.

 

[Thirty One]

I like Matthews and think he's a great player I'm just surprised Toronto gave him this much money on a shorter deal this far ahead of time, especially when they're about to be in a bad, bad cap situation.

Yeah, I'm sure Toronto fans were hoping for something different. But I don't think waiting would have been a great option for them here. I think the threat of an offer sheet becomes more real as we approach summer, not less so.