Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVI

[Fvital92]

Why?

Where else are you going to get a young established top four defenseman?

Because we're not competing in the next 2 years, and for all the heat Zibanejad gets for his injuries Trouba is even worse. Pass.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Mika, on his reasonable contract, straight up for Trouba would probably work. It would help Winnipeg long term.

Perhaps includes a RHD (to Winnipeg) for a forward (to NY) element. I think the Rangers would do this. I'm not so sure about Winnipeg.

I don’t think I’m doing that deal if I’m the Rangers. Chevey is also shrewd and prudent with his dealings, Gorton did good with Yzerman who’s similar but I think he’d be better off looking to trade elsewhere.

 

[bobbop]

Because we're not competing in the next 2 years, and for all the heat Zibanejad gets for his injuries Trouba is even worse. Pass.

Even if I agreed with your premise, Trouba will be 27 in two years.

 

[bobbop]

I don’t think I’m doing that deal if I’m the Rangers. Chevey is also shrewd and prudent with his dealings, Gorton did good with Yzerman who’s similar but I think he’d be better off looking to trade elsewhere.

You are right...Chevy ponders these things forever.

This could/would create a lot of moving parts for Winnipeg but Laine is getting more expensive by the day. Zibanejad would give them cost certainty for three years and slots in perfectly as a second line center. Trouba may be to rich for Winnipeg’s future payroll. (Guessing $6.5-7MM)

Chevy is on record saying he will not trade for a rental center this year

 

[Mac n Gs]

Even if I agreed with your premise, Trouba will be 27 in two years.

It's a good deal in a vacuum, but it's hard to ignore how Trouba has essentially played a full season once in his career. I'd be ok trading for him because he's a stud top-pairing guy, but I'm still leery of giving up Mika unless we're keeping Hayes. We can't trade both of them.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

You are right...Chevy ponders these things forever.

This could/would create a lot of moving parts for Winnipeg but Laine is getting more expensive by the day. Zibanejad would give them cost certainty for three years and slots in perfectly as a second line center. Trouba may be to rich for Winnipeg’s future payroll. (Guessing $6.5-7MM)

Chevy is on record saying he will not trade for a rental center this year

I don’t really believe Trouba is worth Zbad straight up especially with the value Mika’s contract brings. And this is coming from a guy who had reservations of him because of injuries but as of now he’s elevated his game and value just as Hayes. I think their best course of action is quite honestly staying course, sell all assets, make a decision on Hayes and hold off on any trade that is a “win now” move for a bit longer.

Also that’s fine for Chevey but I don’t see too much they have that’s going to intrigue Gorton to be honest. The list of suitors for Mika or Hayes, if it comes to it, is going to be plentiful.

 

[Fvital92]

Even if I agreed with your premise, Trouba will be 27 in two years.

And is made of glass.

 

[Kupo]

I’m sooo torn on Trouba.

He’s definitely someone that can shoulder big minutes and big responsibility on the right side for many, many years...

He’s physical, smart, and has size. It’s just the cost + his contract demands. If I knew what what possible then I’d be more comfortable. But as an outsider without specific details, it’s hard to commit.

He’s not an 8M dmen that’s for damn sure. Not yet, anyway...

 

[RGY]

Even if I agreed with your premise, Trouba will be 27 in two years.

We werent supposed to even be relevant this year and yet we are. How can one say we wont compete next year or the year after that. Those rosters will be different

 

[Lion Hound]

I’m sooo torn on Trouba.

He’s definitely someone that can shoulder big minutes and big responsibility on the right side for many, many years...

He’s physical, smart, and has size. It’s just the cost + his contract demands. If I knew what what possible then I’d be more comfortable. But as an outsider without specific details, it’s hard to commit.

He’s not an 8M dmen that’s for damn sure. Not yet, anyway...

I like his game for sure, but 6 years in and he's yet to play a full season.

 

[offdacrossbar]

As much as I like jake trouba I see some McDonough in him.

He’s gonna be expensive and his body might fail before his performance does.

Then again mcd seems to be having himself a year so far.

If healthy, trouba is a top pair righty d with some snarl. He’s legit.

 

[egelband]

L. Brooks: "I’m sorry. When you tell me that your team won’t be ready to win for five years, I hear nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy, at best, and a plea not to be held accountable, at worst. The Rangers, to be sure, have never said anything of the sort."

https://nypost.com/2018/11/25/kevin-hayes-is-more-to-rangers-than-a-potential-trade-chip/

Word.

 

[egelband]

As much as I like jake trouba I see some McDonough in him.

He’s gonna be expensive and his body might fail before his performance does.

Then again mcd seems to be having himself a year so far.

If healthy, trouba is a top pair righty d with some snarl. He’s legit.

I’m tired of hearing about “Trouba”. “No” to“Trouba”.

 

[Roo Returns]

Mason Appleton who has been discussed here as part of a return for either Hayes or Zuc was just called up. Let's see how he does at this level.

Knowing Chevy he'll try him at 3C with the hopes that he turns into a 2C and can justify not making a move and going into the playoffs with him. That dude is so stingy.

 

[RangerBoy]

I am checking in after a Rangers win. Just tell that Machinehead that I was here. I know he is concerned about my frequency of posts after a Rangers win.

Hextall got fired yesterday.



Hextall tried to walk the rebuild and competitive tightrope. He was a little too conservative. He never made any trades. The Flyers were mediocre. Their goaltending is atrocious. Good forwards. He inherited most of those forwards. So so D. Hextall drafted so many D but those players need time to develop. They made the playoffs a few times.

The world is black and white.

Either bottom out or go for it. Pick a direction.

Trying to serve two masters only leads to mediocrity.

The Rangers are doing the same thing. They want to rebuild but they want to be competitive. You never hear the word "championship". Brooks writes column after column about "an accelerated remodel" featuring Hayes and Zibanejad but you never hear the anything about winning a championship.

It's about winning a championship.

Stanley Cup

Love seeing

Panarin-Elite center

Where are the Rangers getting the elite center from? Those players are found at the top of the draft.

How are the Rangers improving their D? They need to find a #1 D who can play in all situations. Where are they getting him from? They are found at the top of the draft too.

Buffalo has both of the boxes checked off with Eichel and Dahlin.

The Rangers don't have an elite center and #1 D in their system.

Let's be relevant. Sounds like a great plan.

 

[RangerBoy]

Word.

Brooks is the same guy who pounded the table for the Rangers to sign Kovalchuk.

Kovalchuk would become a core player for the Rangers.

Marty Brodeur vouched for him.

All of the bullshit.

Kovalchuk is barely playing in LA. The coach called him a power play specialist.

I like Brooks very much but he is the last guy to be offering advice on how to build a team.

He thought Bobby Holik was going to bring "accountability" back to the Rangers. Yeah that happened.

Brooks loves that word "accountable".

 

[RangerBoy]

We werent supposed to even be relevant this year and yet we are. How can one say we wont compete next year or the year after that. Those rosters will be different

Getting back to discussion from yesterday. They closed that thread.

I am condescending?

Go look in the mirror.

How many times did someone including you write

So we are trading Brassard

So we are trading Zuccarello

So we are trading this guy,etc.

That’s not being condescending and dismissive of someone’s opinion? The only thing missing is the eye roll and shaking head emoji.

Love the irony. That’s all. The same people who had such a major issue with trading a certain player are now the same people advocating that player being traded.

 

[Tawnos]

Hextall didn’t make any bold moves to shore up the problems in Philly. Including the goaltending, which is mystifying how any Philly GM, much less a former goalie himself, could let happen given their history.

Does anyone really think Gorton won’t be bold? Hell, he’s already made 3 bold moves to put the team in a better position for the rebuild or remodel or whatever. It was his MO in his short time in Boston too.

For the Rangers to really be bad, they’re going to have to trade every vet, Tonya-Harding Lunqvist’s knee, send most of Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Pionk, and DeAngelo to Hartford, fire Quinn, and field a team of waiver pickups. It’s completely unreasonable to expect this team to purposely be a bottom-feeder.

 

[RGY]

Getting back to discussion from yesterday. They closed that thread.

I am condescending?

Go look in the mirror.

How many times did someone including you write

So we are trading Brassard

So we are trading Zuccarello

So we are trading this guy,etc.

That’s not being condescending and dismissive of someone’s opinion? The only thing missing is the eye roll and shaking head emoji.

Love the irony. That’s all. The same people who had such a major issue with trading a certain player are now the same people advocating that player being traded.

Ok RB. Whatever you need to believe. You’re the smartest guy in the room who loves being right more than whatever actually happens with this team. You constantly belittle everyone here if they don’t agree with your one way approach to how things must happen with each player. It has been going on for awhile now. I don’t have to look in the mirror. I know how I have felt about certain players but I also was open to the idea of the way in which things transpired with the timing of decisions. You want to trade everyone immediately and I disagreed that they all can’t go at once while maybe we need to consider keeping some.

Its a sport with so many moving parts, things change on a day to day, month to month basis. Get a grip

 

[RGY]

Hextall didn’t make any bold moves to shore up the problems in Philly. Including the goaltending, which is mystifying how any Philly GM, much less a former goalie himself, could let happen given their history.

Does anyone really think Gorton won’t be bold? Hell, he’s already made 3 bold moves to put the team in a better position for the rebuild or remodel or whatever. It was his MO in his short time in Boston too.

For the Rangers to really be bad, they’re going to have to trade every vet, Tonya-Harding Lunqvist’s knee, send most of Howden, Chytil, Andersson, Pionk, and DeAngelo to Hartford, fire Quinn, and field a team of waiver pickups. It’s completely unreasonable to expect this team to purposely be a bottom-feeder.

Great post. Pretty much sums it up Tawnos.

I mean we basically shouldn’t have even shown up this year. Should have forfeited every game. Why have any honor and pride in icing a hockey team, its much better to lose on purpose. Who needs to watch hockey while being a fan of the team.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Brooks is the same guy who pounded the table for the Rangers to sign Kovalchuk.

Kovalchuk would become a core player for the Rangers.

Marty Brodeur vouched for him.

All of the bull****.

Kovalchuk is barely playing in LA. The coach called him a power play specialist.

I like Brooks very much but he is the last guy to be offering advice on how to build a team.

He thought Bobby Holik was going to bring "accountability" back to the Rangers. Yeah that happened.

Brooks loves that word "accountable".

I said it yesterday...Brooks sounded like an old fart in that article yesterday. If you’re okay with just another run like the last one to ultimately fall short, yes, go ahead and re-sign Hayes long term. If the goal is to win multiple Cups, you don’t settle for Zibanejad/Hayes as your top two centers.

However, in your patience for a rebuild, you’re also showing great impatience. Yes, the Rangers have performed better than I personally expected. But, they have benefited from a favorable schedule and haven’t played all that many good teams at the moment. Look what happened this past weekend for a better gauge of where this team will be at season’s end. Last night, they had five rookies in the lineup. And, at least two of those rookies, (Chytil and Howden), are proving that they are in the long term solution, and is evidence that a Gorton has been right in his approach so far. And Kravtsov and Miller are showing that they can potentially be impact players when they get here. Do they provide the instant gratification of Dahlin or Svechnikov? No, but, that doesn’t mean they won’t be high end players. The Rangers should have another first round with multiple picks in the upcoming draft. While you have been facetious about which role player the Rangers are going to draft with their picks, the truth is, they have likely taken three high impact players, (Chytil, Kravtsov and Miller), with at least three of those firsts. Even in dealing Stepan, he’s come away with another rookie in Andersson who’s likely to end up getting a lot of ice time this year, and DeAngelo, who by most metrics has been the Rangers’ best Dman this year. The season is going to play out in ways we cannot foresee. So far, Gorton has followed through on what he’s said he would do. Despite what Brooks has to say, I expect Gorton to continue following the plan and deal both Hayes and Zuccarello. (For the record, I’ve been with you the whole time on moving him,). The only two players I’ve disagreed with you about are Kreider and Zibanejad, and even those came with qualifiers. If we saw the same Kreider that we did before his breakout year two years ago, I’d say yes, move him and maximize his value. But, IMO, he’s taken the next step productively, and has emerged as team leader in the void created by the deals. He is a unique player in the organization. As for Zibanejad, we’re looking at potentially 30-40-70 with much improved defense on a great contract at age 25, with the opportunity to get even better. Franchise center? Not likely. Legitimate 1st liner. Definitely.

From the beginning, some of us have said there are no guarantees about this rebuild. But, so far, so many signs are pointing in the right direction. I expect the season and schedule to wear this team down and still expect them to be in the 5-7 range of the upcoming draft. There still a lot of pain to come. But, don’t overlook the important successes we’ve seen so far, either.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Mason Appleton who has been discussed here as part of a return for either Hayes or Zuc was just called up. Let's see how he does at this level.

Knowing Chevy he'll try him at 3C with the hopes that he turns into a 2C and can justify not making a move and going into the playoffs with him. That dude is so stingy.

Well if you can fill that role with a cheap in-house option why not?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Ok RB. Whatever you need to believe. You’re the smartest guy in the room who loves being right more than whatever actually happens with this team. You constantly belittle everyone here if they don’t agree with your one way approach to how things must happen with each player. It has been going on for awhile now. I don’t have to look in the mirror. I know how I have felt about certain players but I also was open to the idea of the way in which things transpired with the timing of decisions. You want to trade everyone immediately and I disagreed that they all can’t go at once while maybe we need to consider keeping some.

Its a sport with so many moving parts, things change on a day to day, month to month basis. Get a grip

Care to refute that the Rangers need an elite #1 center and #1 defenseman to get where we all want them to be? There's no argument against this. And there's seemingly no realistic scenario where the Rangers obtain even one of these pieces anytime soon.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Care to refute that the Rangers need an elite #1 center and #1 defenseman to get where we all want them to be? There's no argument against this. And there's seemingly no realistic scenario where the Rangers obtain even one of these pieces anytime soon.

Too be fair and because I dislike hyperbolic statements, taking Byram with their first or second pick (depending on how the chips fall) would probably get them a #1 Dman. So yeah, there's a realistic scenario. Hell they could get their 1C in the same manor. I'd say those are very realistic scenarios.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Care to refute that the Rangers need an elite #1 center and #1 defenseman to get where we all want them to be? There's no argument against this. And there's seemingly no realistic scenario where the Rangers obtain even one of these pieces anytime soon.

I care to refute that the only way to get either is the #1 pick, putting your entire strategy into the hands of a lottery and that spending this season crying about the team's play because it's not bad enough is stupid.