Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XV: Trading up or down? - Mod Warning post #450

[DanielBrassard]

Honestly I'd want something better.

That would be a ridiculous overpay by Edmonton.

 

[GregSirico]

That would be a ridiculous overpay by Edmonton.

Maybe I just like Kreider too dang much.

 

[AKA Chief]

i dont understand why there is so much love to keep Namestikov and deal spooner. From the 10-15 games i watched spooner, his passing and play making skills were quite noticable and quite good. Namestnikov was absolutely worthless in my opinion. Vlad was nothing short of a by-product of playing wth stamkos and kucherov......a'la Kyle Okposo, Matt Molson, PA Parentau and so on......playing with Tavres. All flopped the day they left the isalnders and didnt have JT as their center.

So what you're saying is we should sign Tavares and keep Namestnikov! I'd be down with that!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Agreed....10th puljujarvi and klefbom hehe

I'd consider 10 Yamamoto and Benson.

 

[Lays]

I'd consider 10 Yamamoto and Benson.

That’s a huge overpayment. I’m willing to take 10th straight up at this point honestly. Imagine coming out of this draft with 2 of Wahlstrom/Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes/Kotka/Bouchard/Tkachuk? 2 of these guys will be there at 9 and 10. That’d be insane even if I’m not high on Boqvist or Bouchard. If we grab Tkachuk with one of those picks we get a younger (probably) better Kreider.

 

[GregSirico]

That’s a huge overpayment. I’m willing to take 10th straight up at this point honestly. Imagine coming out of this draft with 2 of Wahlstrom/Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes/Kotka/Bouchard/Tkachuk? 2 of these guys will be there at 9 and 10. That’d be insane even if I’m not high on Boqvist or Bouchard. If we grab Tkachuk with one of those picks we get a younger (probably) better Kreider.

The 10th for Kreider alone is not enough. You're vastly under valuing Kreider at this point.

 

[Lays]

The 10th for Kreider alone is not enough. You're vastly under valuing Kreider at this point.

no I think we over value Kreider. I love Kreider but thinking about it more, we don’t need him as much as we need one of those prospects. That immediately accelerates this rebuild. It’d suck to see Kreider go and I know I’m probably going to get shit for saying it but if 10th overall is up for Kreider. I do it.

 

[GregSirico]

no I think we over value Kreider. I love Kreider but thinking about it more, we don’t need him as much as we need one of those prospects. That immediately accelerates this rebuild. It’d suck to see Kreider go and I know I’m probably going to get **** for saying it but if 10th overall is up for Kreider. I do it.

It's a vast over payment IMHO. Now if you're getting back an asset plus the 10th, that's another story.

 

[Kakko]

Erik Karlsson will probably become the 2nd highest payed player in the league next summer, but he's also a generational talent. Assuming there's no major red flags this season, money should not be a reason for the Rangers not to pursue him.

 

[bl02]

no I think we over value Kreider. I love Kreider but thinking about it more, we don’t need him as much as we need one of those prospects. That immediately accelerates this rebuild. It’d suck to see Kreider go and I know I’m probably going to get **** for saying it but if 10th overall is up for Kreider. I do it.

It would sure hurt our only semblance of a number one line that we have right now. Good luck to Mika trying to carry the number one line on his own. When Kreider came back from injury that line looked legit. we need a line like that for the next 4-5 years IMO to help guys like Chytil, Howden and Lias develop without having the pressures of trying to carry the team.

 

[bl02]

The 10th for Kreider alone is not enough. You're vastly under valuing Kreider at this point.

I agree. I know you have to give to get but it will hurt seeing Kreider score 30-35 goals with McDavid while The devils and islanders raked Chiapet over the coals for immediate and long term benefit.

 

[egelband]

The 10th for Kreider alone is not enough. You're vastly under valuing Kreider at this point.

Yeah. Second this opinion.

 

[RangerBoy]

Most of the time you are correct.

History has shown that this doesn't really apply for the elite of the elite though.

Elite players don't slow down? You're the one assuming Karlsson is an elite player.

 

[RangerBoy]

Ottawa Senators captain Erik Karlsson made it clear Thursday that he won’t be taking any hometown discount simply to stay with the club beyond next season.

“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going,” Karlsson said following the club’s practice here Thursday, as the Senators aim to end a seven-game losing streak Friday against the New York Islanders.

“That’s the business part of it. That’s the way every player has been treated ever since this league has started, and I think the players have been a little bit on the other side of things when it comes to negotiations. I think it’s time to realize that when we go to the table, it’s business on both parts, not just (owners).”

Karlsson, who is generally considered to have been the NHL’s top defenceman for the past five seasons, is in position to almost double his current salary, potentially earning as much as $11 million or $12 million annually on a long-term extension.

It’s just business: Karlsson won’t accept anything less than fair market value

This player will be under contract between the ages of 29-36 at a huge number. What can go wrong?

 

[RangerBoy]

If the Rangers decide to trade Kreider at the 2019 trading deadline or next summer or the 2020 trading deadline, are they getting better than the 10th pick in the draft? We saw what the Rangers got for McDonagh. Hajek and/or Howden could end up being quality NHL players. We will see what happens with Namestnikov and the draft picks. That 10th pick has a better chance of being a core player.

There are a million wingers available. Kane got $49M. That changes the dynamics. Kreider will want a similar contract. He will be 29 at the start of his next contract.

People draw these lines in the sand. Zuccarello can't be moved unless the Rangers get a windfall in return. Really? If the Rangers can't move Zuccarello in the next couple of weeks and he still on the team to begin the season. The Rangers couldn't get enough for him. It's not that they want to keep him. They are too many wingers available. The 2019 trading deadline would their next pressure point to move Zuccarello. What are they getting for him? A late 1st and a prospect.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Buyouts start today. Roster moves are going to start early next week. More trades usually happen on draft day and the week before free agency. An increasing salary cap will mean a less active trade market and more bidders for free agents.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Elite players don't slow down? You're the one assuming Karlsson is an elite player.

He isn't one? Thats news to me.

They do slow down, but history shows that they usually stay elite past the 30-31 age marker that you came up with.

 

[Ori]

Erik Karlsson will probably become the 2nd highest payed player in the league next summer, but he's also a generational talent. Assuming there's no major red flags this season, money should not be a reason for the Rangers not to pursue him.

I`m sceptical about his leg injury two years ago in the playoffs, and he is soon 28 now.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Elite players don't slow down? You're the one assuming Karlsson is an elite player.

Assuming? lol.

If Karlsson was signed long term, you wouldn’t question someone calling him elite. But since he’s an upcoming UFA, he’s overrated and won’t be good for the duration of his next contract. That’s how this works, right?

 

[Ori]

It’s just business: Karlsson won’t accept anything less than fair market value

This player will be under contract between the ages of 29-36 at a huge number. What can go wrong?

Injury history - legs is a weak spot for hockey players especially defenders. He might retire long before his next contract is played out. I`m speculating here, but I doubt it benefit the Rangers if our GM went all in on Erik K. At least don`t give up future assets to acquire him in a new direction which is a rebuild. (A major or minor rebuild we will see in the next couple of years, but we need talented draft picks.)

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

That’s a huge overpayment. I’m willing to take 10th straight up at this point honestly. Imagine coming out of this draft with 2 of Wahlstrom/Dobson/Boqvist/Hughes/Kotka/Bouchard/Tkachuk? 2 of these guys will be there at 9 and 10. That’d be insane even if I’m not high on Boqvist or Bouchard. If we grab Tkachuk with one of those picks we get a younger (probably) better Kreider.

I’d stake my reputation that Kreider will be better than tkachuk. I think he’s massively overrated

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

HA

Wasn’t expecting to see the “Karlsson isn’t elite” argument but an interesting hill to chose to die on

 

[DutchShamrock]

Karlsson is a transcendent talent. I can understand concerns with his age and injuries but to outright dismiss signing him because of the cap hit is ridiculous in my opinion. Makes me think some don’t realize just how good the guy is.

I personally think he’s going to age like fine wine and be at the least a top 10 D for virtually his whole career.

If you believe he will hold up for at least the first half of his contract then money shouldn’t be any obstacle you pay the man and get him on Broadway.

Its not dismissing karlsson. Quite the opposite. His career just isn't lining up with our window. He will instantly make us a playoff team. But the rest of the skaters and an aging lundqvist is a false hope. The brass will have to ship out young assets to fill the ranks to win now.

Karlsson isn't coming here to wait for the 9th OA to make an impact. Gorton isn't signing karlsson and then suddenly letting the team become contenders organically. It's abandoning this plan 3 months in.

I've had my share of teams built from the star ufa on out. I no longer crave doing whatever it takes to get the best player. I want the best team and a cup, but karlsson's window doesn't seem to align with this path.

 

[Edge]

The challenge with signing EK to a massive contract is that you’re likely paying him more for what he did for Ottawa than what he is likely to do for your team.

Even if he holds up reasonably well, you’re still paying the premium dollars for past accomplishments. That’s fine if you’re talking about 3 or 4 years — you suck it up. But you start getting into the 5-7 year range and I just don’t know if you ever quite get the ROI.

And, as I’ve stated, with the direction the game is going, just in the last 4 years or so, I’m not sure the elite talents playing into their mid-30s at a reasonably high level is a given anymore.

 

[DutchShamrock]

A mid level 1st line wing like Kreider is worth more than the 10th any year.

Are the posters here the same people i see buying lottery tickets and then driving away in their beat up taurus? A chance at a player that *might* be top 6 in 2-4 years, still have a startlingly high rate of never playing in the league, is not worth more than a guy that is playing on the 1st.