Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[SA16]

Option C: Mika Zibanejad

He would already be on the ice in either scenario.

 

[NYR Viper]

The team needs a 4C that can come in for those face-offs and win them. Zibanejad is also very good. Strome played C last year but had mainly been a winger for more than a couple of years. Chytil needs to improve. Andersson, if he makes the team, has been good on draws elsewhere. So has Howden at lower levels.

I'm not overly concerned with face-offs as I am in sliding Strome over to play wing and finding a good 2-way center who can augment that Panarin-_____-Strome line. That would be my goal this off-season if I could find that guy. Someone like a younger Hanzal or Anisimov.

 

[bigdog16]

Bet that Bozak would put up the same numbers, if not better, next to Panarin.

And if the idea is to just have them as a placeholder 2C/3C to swap with Chytil if he's not ready, then there is zero reason to not want Bozak.

Strome isn't a long-term solution. Bozak isn't either. But in the short-term, Bozak is a better solution than Strome.

You honestly think Bozak would put up a career high year as a 35 year old? Stop

He played with JVR and Mitch Marner in Toronto. Dont act like hes never had a chance to put up numbers. Hes just not a good player

Who would you rather have on the ice at the end of the game when you're losing and need to win a big faceoff to even have a chance? One guy gives you a chance to win 55% of the time. The other only 47%.

This would be assuming they are equal players, they arent. I would rather have the player who puts us in that situation less. And Ryan Strome is that player

 

[SA16]

You honestly think Bozak would put up a career high year as a 35 year old? Stop

He played with JVR and Mitch Marner in Toronto. Dont act like hes never had a chance to put up numbers. Hes just not a good player



This would be assuming they are equal players, they arent. I would rather have the player who puts us in that situation less. And Ryan Strome is that player

He put up better numbers (2.14 pts/60) in Toronto in 16-17 playing mostly with Marner/JVR than Strome (2.09) did this year playing mostly with Panarin. His totals were lower since he got over 3 mins/game less since Babcock spreads out the ice time much more than Quinn.

So who is acting like he never had a chance to put up numbers? He's been in that role before and has put up numbers. He's not in that role in STL since they have Schenn and ROR ahead of him on the depth chat.

 

[True Blue]

The team needs a 4C that can come in for those face-offs and win them. Zibanejad is also very good. Strome played C last year but had mainly been a winger for more than a couple of years. Chytil needs to improve. Andersson, if he makes the team, has been good on draws elsewhere. So has Howden at lower levels.

I'm not overly concerned with face-offs as I am in sliding Strome over to play wing and finding a good 2-way center who can augment that Panarin-_____-Strome line. That would be my goal this off-season if I could find that guy. Someone like a younger Hanzal or Anisimov.

But again, why look for a center when you already have one that works well with Panarin? Are you that worried about Strome's defensive play?

 

[bigdog16]

He put up better numbers (2.14 pts/60) in Toronto in 16-17 playing mostly with Marner/JVR than Strome (2.09) did this year playing mostly with Panarin. His totals were lower since he got over 3 mins/game less since Babcock spreads out the ice time much more than Quinn.

So who is acting like he never had a chance to put up numbers? He's been in that role before and has put up numbers. He's not in that role in STL since they have Schenn and ROR ahead of him on the depth chat.

If you truly think that a 35 year old Tyler Bozak is an improvement over Ryan Strome than there is no convincing you otherwise. Bozak has regressed significantly the past 3 years leading up to this past season where he posted his worst career year yet.

......But hes an improvement compared to a 26 yr old coming off a 60 point career year. Ok

 

[NYR Viper]

But again, why look for a center when you already have one that works well with Panarin? Are you that worried about Strome's defensive play?

I am that concerned with his defensive play, yes. I also think his 'issues' stem more from him playing center than if he played wing. Augment his strengths and limit his weaknesses.

 

[SA16]

But again, why look for a center when you already have one that works well with Panarin? Are you that worried about Strome's defensive play?

Maybe because every Center who is ever played with Panarin has worked with Panarin? Here are the ones with 200+ minutes and his results:

Anisimov: 1650 mins, 2.14 pts/60, 52.9 CF%
Toews: 320 mins, 1.31 pts/60, 57.9 CF% (low pts simply due to a smaller sample containing a 6.13 on ice sh% which for reference is about what Tanner Glass generally put up. Going to say that is not significant)

Dubois: 1700 mins, 2.58 pts/60, 56.1 CF%
Wennberg: 350 mins, 2.58 pts/60, 58.2 CF%

Strome: 700 mins, 3.6 pts/60, 50.7 CF% (higher sh% than crosby/kucherov/ovechkin/mcdavid have ever had in a full year)
Zibanejad: 230 mins, 1.8 pts/60, 51.1 CF% (also FYI when on ice they had a 3.9 GF60. He and Strome had a 4.1. So they were scoring a lot he just didn't get points on all of them)

So basically every center he's played with has worked with him. The two with his worst individual production happen to also be the two best players and two with less minutes more prone to variance. Also kind of irrelevant since if you make the argument that he doesn't work well with elite players like that well that doesn't matter since whoever he plays with wouldn't be that level anyway.

 

[SA16]

If you truly think that a 35 year old Tyler Bozak is an improvement over Ryan Strome than there is no convincing you otherwise. Bozak has regressed significantly the past 3 years leading up to this past season where he posted his worst career year yet.

......But hes an improvement compared to a 26 yr old coming off a 60 point career year. Ok

Bozak had a good year this season. Not sure what you're talking about. He scored 1.8 pts/60 playing in a third line role mostly with Robert Thomas and Alex Steen. The team performed well with him on the ice too. The reason he scored less points is as easy as his decreased linemate quality, the least TOI of his career, and a severe decrease in PP time entirely on the 2nd unit.

 

[Kovalev27]

I feel so disinterested right now it’s a weird feeling. The lockouts i was right here talking. If it were the off-season I’d be here talking about the team daily. But there’s just like a feeling that this isn’t the off-season I don’t know what it is feels like there just isn’t even a league right now. I just have little interest in roster discussions prospects the standings just very weird. And don’t get me wrong I miss it dearly. Just can’t get my head into it

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I feel so disinterested right now it’s a weird feeling. The lockouts i was right here talking. If it were the off-season I’d be here talking about the team daily. But there’s just like a feeling that this isn’t the off-season I don’t know what it is feels like there just isn’t even a league right now. I just have little interest in roster discussions prospects the standings just very weird. And don’t get me wrong I miss it dearly. Just can’t get my head into it

I feel exactly the same way.

Once there's a plan for next steps – whether they be resuming the season, jumping right into the playoffs, holding the draft – I have no doubt I'll reengage. But until then, I only casually peruse HF, the Athletic, and hockey twitter very occasionally.

 

[Avery16]

If you truly think that a 35 year old Tyler Bozak is an improvement over Ryan Strome than there is no convincing you otherwise. Bozak has regressed significantly the past 3 years leading up to this past season where he posted his worst career year yet.

......But hes an improvement compared to a 26 yr old coming off a 60 point career year. Ok

I think that those calling for Bozak are probably thinking that two seasons of Bozak at 5 million per might be just about as good as two seasons of Strome at 5 million per and much much better than Strome at 4 or 5 years x 7. I would agree.

 

[Irishguy42]

I think that those calling for Bozak are probably thinking that two seasons of Bozak at 5 million per might be just about as good as two seasons of Strome at 5 million per and much much better than Strome at 4 or 5 x 7. I would agree.

One year. Bozak has one year left on his contract. UFA in '21.

But yes, the rest of this is correct. In the short-term, as a stop-gap for Chytil at 2C, Bozak is a superior option to Strome.

 

[Avery16]

Bozak wouldn't be my first choice, but term and cost-control are also big factors in the decision for 2C, besides ability.

 

[Avery16]

One year. Bozak has one year left on his contract. UFA in '21.

But yes, the rest of this is correct. In the short-term, as a stop-gap for Chytil at 2C, Bozak is a superior option to Strome.

One year is even better.

Whats more, in an expiring contract at 5 million, Bozak wouldn't be horrible as 3C as he's been with St. Louis, should Chytil take the reins at 2C mid-season.

 

[True Blue]

Maybe because every Center who is ever played with Panarin has worked with Panarin? Here are the ones with 200+ minutes and his results:

Anisimov: 1650 mins, 2.14 pts/60, 52.9 CF%
Toews: 320 mins, 1.31 pts/60, 57.9 CF% (low pts simply due to a smaller sample containing a 6.13 on ice sh% which for reference is about what Tanner Glass generally put up. Going to say that is not significant)

Dubois: 1700 mins, 2.58 pts/60, 56.1 CF%
Wennberg: 350 mins, 2.58 pts/60, 58.2 CF%

Strome: 700 mins, 3.6 pts/60, 50.7 CF% (higher sh% than crosby/kucherov/ovechkin/mcdavid have ever had in a full year)
Zibanejad: 230 mins, 1.8 pts/60, 51.1 CF% (also FYI when on ice they had a 3.9 GF60. He and Strome had a 4.1. So they were scoring a lot he just didn't get points on all of them)

So basically every center he's played with has worked with him. The two with his worst individual production happen to also be the two best players and two with less minutes more prone to variance. Also kind of irrelevant since if you make the argument that he doesn't work well with elite players like that well that doesn't matter since whoever he plays with wouldn't be that level anyway.

Points per 60 is an extrapolated amount. Which of those players were effectively 70 point players when playing with him?

With which of those players was Panarin on his way to shattering his own marks?

 

[True Blue]

I am that concerned with his defensive play, yes. I also think his 'issues' stem more from him playing center than if he played wing. Augment his strengths and limit his weaknesses.

But did those weaknesses limit what was essentially a very strong line even with Fast as RW?

 

[True Blue]

I feel exactly the same way.

As do I but force myself to come here as a way to take mind off things and talk about something other than the friggin' virus (only to be sucked into a thread about it).

Arguing about the merits of Strome is a refreshing enough diversion.

 

[SA16]

Points per 60 is an extrapolated amount. Which of those players were effectively 70 point players when playing with him?

With which of those players was Panarin on his way to shattering his own marks?

I did not extrapolate anything.

 

[True Blue]

I did not extrapolate anything.

When you quote points per 60 minutes that is exactly what it is

 

[NYR Viper]

But did those weaknesses limit what was essentially a very strong line even with Fast as RW?

In the regular season, maybe not. But come playoff time, yes, I think they would.

 

[Irishguy42]

When you quote points per 60 minutes that is exactly what it is

...that's not what extrapolating is.

Points/60 is known data. Extrapolation is all about unknown data/values based on trends of known data/values.

 

[NYR Viper]

I wonder if Arizona would consider trading Dvorak. That would be an intriguing player to put between Panarin and Strome. 24 years old and had 38 points in 70 games this season. Perhaps Arizona would be looking to shake things up a bit and create some cap room to re-sign Hall.

 

[SA16]

When you quote points per 60 minutes that is exactly what it is

You may want to brush up on your statistics.

 

[effen]

I wonder if Arizona would consider trading Dvorak. That would be an intriguing player to put between Panarin and Strome. 24 years old and had 38 points in 70 games this season. Perhaps Arizona would be looking to shake things up a bit and create some cap room to re-sign Hall.

He seems pretty integral considering Stepan is badly declining and they're losing Soderberg, he's their 4th leading scorer, and just turned 24 at the start of a 6/27M deal.