Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Ori]

Yes, I believe we need a completely new coaching staff including PP, defense, new system, and a coach who are good at working with young players who prefer puck possession.

 

[ClutchTom]

I think a clean slate is in order and my feeling is that is what will be delivered at the end of the season.

What Ruff has done this year hasn't exactly been a ringing endorsement for his HC candidacy.

I'd much prefer to hire a young guy in the mold of Keefe. I tend to agree it doesn't seem to be a hire in the traditional Ranger mold, but, then again, I think we're heading into some largely unfamiliar territory as a franchise. Additionally, I think, given free reign, Gorton has a distinct MO from Sather - and because of that, maybe a hire out of the NCAA or AHL wouldn't ultimately be so surprising

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Time to wake up.

A+ Post.

 

[mrmel329]

Jeff Gorton with Boomer this morning

"rebuild this thing"

"build a new core"

Gorton wants to build a team.

Missed that. Did AV come up in convo by any chance?

 

[Kovalev27]

It wouldn’t have made sense for two years when we didn’t have the center depth though lol.

If you had a Tavares with the kids and Hayes it would make sense.

If Chytil Andersson Hayes Howden becomes legit then you could do t as well. Big righty shot down the right wing would be real interesting

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Missed that. Did AV come up in convo by any chance?

Yes. Basically avoided that question with Boomer.

Was on with Kay later in the day and basically said that they are going to go in a different direction with out actually saying it.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

If they get Tavares, I'm gonna say,. "SHIT!"

 

[Richard Banger]

We're really in what is, for Ranger fans, uncharted territory. I've seen it happen with the Rangers maybe 3X: when Francis rebuilt a truly horrid team during the mid-60s and had it emerge as a power in the late 60s; the fairly quick rebuild that occurred after the end of the Francis era under John Ferguson (Duguay, Murdoch, Davidson, et al), and at the start of the most recent era after the long dark ages (Lundqvist, Staal, everyone else; 3 excellent coaches each adding something to the mix).

But what we have to realize is that there is no magic formula here. It is not as simple as "do this, do that, then do this, then do that" and, presto, an elite team! You can do everything right (including getting high draft picks for a few years in a row, have the right developmental coaches in place, etc) and it still may not work. We've seen, all to often, first round picks get hurt or worse. Projecting 18 year olds is not a science, as much as scouts would like it to be. Outside events impinge on players' lives. Personality plays a part (I always remember a photo of Ranger prospects during developmental camp in the year JT Miller was drafted. Maybe they were on the Circle Line or going to the Statue of Liberty, some group bonding activity. Everyone was smiling and happy except for JT, who just looked dour and upset: was this a harbinger of things to come?). Having the right vets around as mentors is important. Obviously the right coach. So many factors, many often out of a team's control.

Things look quite promising right now: Andersson, Chytl, all the guys we've acquired, the ones we are going to draft. But you just never know. We've seen teams with the best intentions fall into losing ruts that last for years and sometimes decades.

But we need to be realistic. We need not to rush the process. This is an exciting time if you are a hard core fan. It is something so many of year have wished for over and over again. It's going to be exciting watching kids come up and process. It is going to be upsetting watching some guys with high upsides wither and not make it. We seem to have the right GM. Coaching remains problematic. It's going to be bumpy. Hey, I'm 70 years old and have Ranger memories going back to 1958 and have been a hard core fan since 1962 but I'm excited to see what the future will bring.

Grandfather...is that you?

 

[Off Sides]

Zbad clause does not kick in until the 19-20 season, I wonder if they Stepan him before hand, bernmeister style, should his game not improve?

At this or next draft, since he has term left and is pretty good I wonder if he could be used to get top 5 or 7 pick too?

 

[Off Sides]

....

 

[mrmel329]

I think you're wrong.

They're going to pull someone out of the AHL or NCAAs IMO.

Sheldon Keefe please!!!

 

[MarkMessyay11]

On a serious note, I don't really disagree much with this, but would hardly give McD more than a C. Like what is a "worse" deal than what we got? Its really ugly. Gorton got rental value for him. Should have been more, but its not a disaster. The JT Miller trade is of course E minus. The problem is, volume-weighted those two trades overshadows the rest.

I also think its a huge mistake to go so hard after these LD's. Think its bad management. First of all, to develop these Ds you need to give them a strong environment and let them play to their strength. It takes time to develop them too. They are also easy to get a hold of, there is a reason everyone is trading them, its a area of strength for everyone. Would definitely have preferred some good prospect wingers instead of -- only -- LDs. Cept Howden of course.

The direction we are going into -- like it or not, if we are going there lets go there. No half arsed attempt. And Gorton seems deadbent on doing it properly. That is great.

Respectfully, I disagree on your valuation. The Yandle deal is the easiest comp in recent memory where a "top" defenseman with term was traded for futures...Duclair, Moore, 1st, 2nd. Eerily similar structure, but better value for the better defenseman - Howden > Duclair, Hajek > Moore, 1st = 1st give or take a couple draft spots, conditional 2nd >= 2nd.

The Miller/Namestnikov part of the deal is up for some more debate IMO.

I also don't think it's "bad management" per say, to go after LHDs so far. Obviously the preference would be a better balance, but we're not the only team & fans that covet RHD. If Foote could have been had, I have to think Gorton might have preferred him for that reason. Hajek is no slouch though...and I don't know enough about any of these guys, but maybe one or two are good on their off side. Plus, some may take longer to develop than others and some may not develop as planned. And worst case, you have expendable assets for future trades.

This thing is far from over anyway. If additional trades & draft picks yield only more LHD, then yes I'll agree with you. But for now, I think it's a great start.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I don’t think the Rangers are going to this solely through the draft, but I don’t think they will be players in the upcoming UFA market, either. The rest of the league always thinks the worst of the Rangers.

They have to be unless they're on a 5-6-year plan.

 

[Blueblood9]

I picked up on it... just wordsmithing... lol

I gathered but as a proud pork chop(my avy is tattooed on my leg) I'm also stubborn and never wrong so I needed to ensure my point was taken

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don’t see the issue with adding all the LD. Our current crop really isn’t that good or impressive outside of Skjei and maybe Gilmour. Who’s gonna be an NHLer out of Pedrie, Crawley, Day, Tarmo, Beargloves, or Graves? Day I can see making is as a RD so they can maximize his offensive output, since it sure as hell won’t be his defense that helps him make it in the NHL. I don’t see it with the rest of them, except Graves, but they traded him for Bigras. The writing was on the wall for him when they chose O’Gara over him. O’Gara is a warm body who’ll most likely be gone next year.

So I look at it as Hajek/Rykov/Lindgren vs Pedrie/Crawley/Tarmo. Give me the first crop every single time.

They can add some good RD in the draft or through a trade. Go wing heavy in the first round to build up that pipeline. They’re set down the middle and in goal. We have some good pieces in place to start this rebuild.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Are there any top flight coaches out there? Or ones ready to take the next step who are good with developing kids?

 

[Savant]

Are there any top flight coaches out there? Or ones ready to take the next step who are good with developing kids?

Keefe. Maybe Groulx.

Maybe they can get Knoblauch out of Philly. But we saw what happened last time that Philly didn’t want to let the Rangers have one of their coaches.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

@EdJovanovski

Returns aside how excited and what was your reaction when you heard Miller was traded. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Avery16]

Miller was my second favorite current Ranger, but we’re a better team up front right now with Spooner and Namestnikov than we were with Miller and Nash. Then there’s all those picks/prospects for the future. On D? There’s a hole at the moment. To put it lightly.

 

[Edge]

Zbad clause does not kick in until the 19-20 season, I wonder if they Stepan him before hand, bernmeister style, should his game not improve?

At this or next draft, since he has term left and is pretty good I wonder if he could be used to get top 5 or 7 pick too?

I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

I’m sure in their ideal world — where everything is coming up Milhouse — Chytil, Andersson, Howden, TBD, gives them the ability to move Z and Hayes.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

I’m sure in their ideal world — where everything is coming up Milhouse — Chytil, Andersson, Howden, TBD, gives them the ability to move Z and Hayes.

I agree, but I don't think get moved until the 2019 draft.

 

[Alluckks]

Zbad clause does not kick in until the 19-20 season, I wonder if they Stepan him before hand, bernmeister style, should his game not improve?

At this or next draft, since he has term left and is pretty good I wonder if he could be used to get top 5 or 7 pick too?

I think we would have to see one of our prospect centers break out in a big way to feel comfortable doing that.

 

[Alluckks]

Keefe. Maybe Groulx.

Maybe they can get Knoblauch out of Philly. But we saw what happened last time that Philly didn’t want to let the Rangers have one of their coaches.

Quennville could be available

 

[Savant]

Quennville could be available

The Rangers are rebuilding. I want a developement coach. I don’t think they need a Q/Sutter type at this stage.

 

[Avery16]

The Rangers are rebuilding. I want a developement coach. I don’t think they need a Q/Sutter type at this stage.

A developmental coach still needs to be successful at the NHL level. Unless you want to do the whole Dallas Eakins approach. I think we can spare ourselves that. Coach Q would be fine. The hate for AV is strong on here, but he’s a successful coach. Not too many out there with better records. We also will have vets next season, and the season after that in core positions/roles.