Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

[True Blue]

You are throwing bumper stickers out there that I already said people like to do, but can't properly explain what they mean or how they help. How is he holding players accountable by scratching five players? How does that specifically help the players, the hockey team and the rebuild?

By taking away playing time or not dressing for the game, that tells the players that if they do things the way that they have been and not the way that he wants, then they will be held accountable and not play. Thought that was pretty simple.

It helps the players make a decision if they want to do things their way or his way. It helps the team because once the players are all moving in the same direction, things naturally get smoother. It helps the rebuild by instilling a culture of accountability.

 

[RangerBoy]

So, catching up on the last 5-6 pages, and the overall impression I get is...

The Rangers are a rebuilding team with a new coach.

Do I have that about right?

The Rangers are a rebuilding team with new rookie coach.

The roster stinks and the coach has no idea what he is doing.

 

[True Blue]

So, catching up on the last 5-6 pages, and the overall impression I get is...

The Rangers are a rebuilding team with a new coach.

Do I have that about right?

Quinn is confused and has no idea of what he is doing. Oh, and he is benching the wrong players.

Somewhere out there, Trottier is similing.

 

[Riche16]

That article doesn't do Buch any favors... makes him look pretty awful actually. If the effort isn't there, I have ZERO issue with him watching the game in a suit and tie. Say what you want about Quinn but he hasn't changed that message from day 1. Effort in practice AND in games. NON negotiable

 

[Webster]

Is this coach going to survive the season, or is Gorton going to call AV?

 

[Edge]

The reality is that everyone came into this season with a clean slate as far as the head coach is concerned.

If they are finding themselves the focal point of his question's and lack of trust, that's squarely on them. Especially the guys who should've viewed this as their golden opportunity to make a name for themselves.

We can play favorites with whoever we want and talk about certain guys deserving to be benched, but the reality is that if someone like Buch isn't jumping to the forefront of "go-to" players for Quinn, that's a Buch problem more than it's a Quinn problem.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Is this coach going to survive the season, or is Gorton going to call AV?

I might resign if AV is brought back in any capacity. It's like the Knicks bringing back Isaiah Thoma....oh wait...

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Is this coach going to survive the season, or is Gorton going to call AV?

No he’s gonna turn your boy into the modern day Reggie Dunlop.

 

[Off Sides]

How do we know everyone had a clean slate? I mean I am sure he said that just as every other new coach does but he's been around hockey for a long time.

 

[True Blue]

Say what you want about Quinn but he hasn't changed that message from day 1. Effort in practice AND in games. NON negotiable

This is the part that confuses me. He has made it crystal clear what is demanded and expected. Clearly Buch is not living up to that expectation. Why is it then a surprise to people if he is scratched?

 

[GAGLine]

This is the part that confuses me. He has made it crystal clear what is demanded and expected. Clearly Buch is not living up to that expectation. Why is it then a surprise to people if he is scratched?

Because it's hard for people to be objective.

 

[Edge]

How do we know everyone had a clean slate? I mean I am sure he said that just as every other new coach does but he's been around hockey for a long time.

I think Quinn has been pretty consistent in his expectation from the get-go.

I think he also knows who has more to give. In Buch's case, the talent is there.

 

[McRanger]

The reality is that everyone came into this season with a clean slate as far as the head coach is concerned.

If they are finding themselves the focal point of his question's and lack of trust, that's squarely on them. Especially the guys who should've viewed this as their golden opportunity to make a name for themselves.

We can play favorites with whoever we want and talk about certain guys deserving to be benched, but the reality is that if someone like Buch isn't jumping to the forefront of "go-to" players for Quinn, that's a Buch problem more than it's a Quinn problem.

I am all for benching Buch if it serves to actually help improve his game.

But if it doesn't then at some point coaches and management are going to have to either accept what he is, continue to scratch him for inferior players or trade him.

And scratching a guy like Buchnevich, who will probably sleepwalk into ~50 points a year, in favor of the McLeods of the world might make Quinn feel great about being accountable, but it wont do much else. And scratching him and then trading him will do even less.

Just think of how foolish benching Kovalev for Shane Churla or swapping him with Bill Berg onto the 4th line, all in some misbegotten attempt to make him into a different and more consistent player, while ultimately trading him anyway, looks 20 years later.

 

[mrmovies779]

I think Quinn has been pretty consistent in his expectation from the get-go.

I think he also knows who has more to give. In Buch's case, the talent is there.

Talent is there,but the real question... is the hunger/drive?

 

[Edge]

I am all for benching Buch if it serves to actually help improve his game.

But if it doesn't then at some point coaches and management are going to have to either accept what he is, continue to scratch him for inferior players or trade him.

And scratching a guy like Buchnevich, who will probably sleepwalk into ~50 points a year, in favor of the McLeods of the world might make Quinn feel great about being accountable, but it wont do much else. And scratching him and then trading him will do even less.

Just think of how foolish benching Kovalev for Shane Churla or swapping him with Bill Berg onto the 4th line, all in some misbegotten attempt to make him into a different and more consistent player, while ultimately trading him anyway, looks 20 years later.

I think the first step in the process is to see if you can light a fire under him and get him to be that consistent top six forward he should be.

Unfortunately, there's not many teams that can scratch a 23 year old skill forward and replace him with an equally skilled young player. So in most cases, you end up going with the less talented plug-in player.

I don't believe the idea is to turn him into a different player. I think the idea is to make him tap into the player he is capable of being. I don't think the Rangers expect Buch to be a defensive wiz, who dives to block shots and causes turnover with his checks.

 

[Edge]

Talent is there,but the real question... is the hunger/drive?

Frankly, I get the sense that is one of the major questions that has brought us to this point as an organization.

Not just Buchnevich, but with several guys. In some cases, I think the Rangers recognize the immense talent that certain guys possess and so those guys are getting a chance to take the bull by the horns. But I don't for a minute doubt that there is a degree of dissatisfaction with the approach of certain guys. They mindset is, "Okay we changed coaches. Now that excuse is off the table, show us what you've got."

I also think it's a big reason why they've set out to create a core that they're hoping consists of some combination of guys like Andersson, Howden, Lindgren, and Miller. I think they expect them to set not only contribute their skills to the team, but also set the tone for other guys.

 

[Riche16]

I am all for benching Buch if it serves to actually help improve his game.

But if it doesn't then at some point coaches and management are going to have to either accept what he is, continue to scratch him for inferior players or trade him.

And scratching a guy like Buchnevich, who will probably sleepwalk into ~50 points a year, in favor of the McLeods of the world might make Quinn feel great about being accountable, but it wont do much else. And scratching him and then trading him will do even less.

Just think of how foolish benching Kovalev for Shane Churla or swapping him with Bill Berg onto the 4th line, all in some misbegotten attempt to make him into a different and more consistent player, while ultimately trading him anyway, looks 20 years later.

Well that's the real issue yeah?

If Buch isn't willing to work then he's a part of the problem and not the solution... ESPECIALLY after just a few games. We're not in the dog days of winter here... he shouldn't have burned out his motivation yet. Yes he has what 3 points but he hasn't looked great out there IMO.

I was expecting and hoping to see more from him this season.

 

[Off Sides]

I am all for benching Buch if it serves to actually help improve his game.

But if it doesn't then at some point coaches and management are going to have to either accept what he is, continue to scratch him for inferior players or trade him.

And scratching a guy like Buchnevich, who will probably sleepwalk into ~50 points a year, in favor of the McLeods of the world might make Quinn feel great about being accountable, but it wont do much else. And scratching him and then trading him will do even less.

Just think of how foolish benching Kovalev for Shane Churla or swapping him with Bill Berg onto the 4th line, all in some misbegotten attempt to make him into a different and more consistent player, while ultimately trading him anyway, looks 20 years later.

Correct, then eventually poor roster moves are made in order to provide the coaching with more players they like, and in turn usually that translates to lower talent levels. We already see it, DeAngelo is more talented but he does not play, they do not like him.

 

[NYR]

I’m all for benching certain players that aren’t performing as expected but this is becoming a revolving door at this point and the mere fact that this many players show up to camp in such piss poor condition is beyond pathetic.

With that said, It’s completely OK to lose if you’re putting in an honest effort but if you’re just going through the motions at such an early stage in the season?

I’d send some people packing just to make a point...

 

[Edge]

Correct, then eventually poor roster moves are made in order top provide the coaching with more players they like, and in turn usually that translates to lower talent levels. We already see it, DeAngelo is more talented but he does not play, they do not like him.

Likewise, we have to be careful that we don't buy into the narrative that even higher talents who half-ass their game will translate to success.

Ideally, you have a balance between guys who are skilled and driven. I think that's what the Rangers are trying to put together.

 

[Webster]

To be honest, I think Buchnevich is about to hit the trade block, Rangers had enough of his inconsistency and lack of effort. Perhaps he'll have more success elsewhere.

 

[Edge]

To be honest, I think Buchnevich is about to hit the trade block, Rangers had enough of his inconsistency and lack of effort. Perhaps he'll have more success elsewhere.

I'd be surprised if they are there yet. I think they're still focused on getting the most out of him. I mean he does have two guys and an assist in 5 games, so it's not like he's been completely invisible.

While everyone could be fair game come December or January, I'll venture a guess that the priority will probably be on players with more pressing contract factors.

 

[Off Sides]

To be honest, I think Buchnevich is about to hit the trade block, Rangers had enough of his inconsistency and lack of effort. Perhaps he'll have more success elsewhere.

It's possible and if so they will get back a lesser talented player they like more. How that roster building technique ends up with them beating the more talented teams who do not run things by consulting their like-a-meter I do not know.

“Pionk is going to play a lot of hockey for us,” Quinn said. “He and I have talked. I don’t want to reveal our lineup for our next game, but he’s a guy I like an awful lot, and he’s going to play a lot for us.”

Nothing against Pionk, but once they start down the like/do not like train it kind of becomes predestined that players they do not like, even if they are more talented, are going to be cast aside.

 

[NewLife]

Plus he’s near the top in scoring, 4 pts in 5 games.

How did we get this kid?

I know thinking out loud in digital letters is stupid when Google exist btw. Though I had no clue that Graves had been traded.

 

[silverfish]

I think we should bench everyone tonight. Forfeit the game. That way we get all the 'kicks in the asses' out of the way, and we can start playing better again.