Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VI: Gorton's Way

[Machinehead]

haircut or not, do we really want rick nash lumbering around the ice for another year or 2 after this one ?

too many people here are sentimental or looking for reasons to keep him around besides minor things like oh, i dont know.... scoring ? good with the young guys ? cant we have a younger more productive guy be a good role model too ?

at 34 yrs old, i dont want rick nash taking minutes from any of our young core forwards.

its been a good run rick, see ya.

More productive...

More productive...

Hm...not Crosby, not Ovechkin. I'm going to need something bigger.

Oh, there's one!!

I found one. One.

Now all we have to do is get St. Louis on the phone and we'll have the "more productive" goal-scoring winger you wanted.

 

[Ola]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=135362321&postcount=1

Lou and Babcock flew to Moscow to have dinner with a solid (far from outstanding) KHL RD who can become a UFA next season.

I've said this before -- getting the young free agent is everything but just putting in an offer and waiting to see who is chosen. It's a long process and all about establishing trust and a relationship with these guys. A lot of work can be done.

I am definitely impressed with Gortons work in NY. But I do think we could do a lot more. Are our front office market leading? No, I think Toronto currently would blow us off the map. They are attacking desperately on all fronts to improve as much as possible. My big concern, who have ever sent their icon GM and legandary coach to Moscow, Russia to have dinner with an OK defensemen who could be signed and play in 14 months? Nobody before Toronto. They are taking it a step further, and this is just one example, I've seen indications of this several times the last year. Have we ever done something nobody else haven't don't before?

You cannot out smart people. The best saying I ever heard was that there are no smart people, only dumb people which are the people who think they are smarter than anyone else. Only hard work matters, doing more things than the rest. Finding new ways.

I think we are truly excellent in one area, probably more so than Toronto, and that is doing right by our players. I think really helps us and our reputation. But if you look at -- any -- other area really, I think you would see that Toronto is doing more than us. Of course not always "better", but in the long run the hard work/utilized resources will pay off.

 

[nyr2k2]

And Pionk who was a good get, and Georgiev who most didn't seem to think was even interested but was also a nice add.

I understand Ola's point. I just don't think that we need to devote all our resources to covering every potential option when we could take all those resources and devote them to a smaller amount of guys we think will actually be impact players.

 

[Ola]

how long is Shest signed for?

 

[Irishguy42]

how long is Shest signed for?

Contract ends in 2019.

 

[Mac n Gs]

how long is Shest signed for?

Two more years IIRC. I believe his three year contract extension included overriding the final year of his first contract

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

how long is Shest signed for?

Through the end of next season

 

[Ola]

And Pionk who was a good get, and Georgiev who most didn't seem to think was even interested but was also a nice add.

I understand Ola's point. I just don't think that we need to devote all our resources to covering every potential option when we could take all those resources and devote them to a smaller amount of guys we think will actually be impact players.

Of course, but with pushing it on all fronts I of course didn't refer to every single free agent out there. Free agent, amature scouting, how they run their farm team, how they these metrics and analyze games and so forth and so forth, all those fronts.

This is obviously a kid they like a lot and really want, doubt Lou and Babs are dining with many players in Europe this summer...

To put it like this, coming to the decision to send Lou and Babs to Moscow is obviously a part of a bigger strategy in which they have acknowledged the importance of getting younger UFAs and really are pursuing that area.

This is obviously an area Gorton/Slats was and is tremendously successful in too. And I don't think we are mishandled in any area of how this organization is run -- my impression is the opposite. With that said -- Toronto seems dead set to take things even another step. I would love for us to pick it up another notch and compete with them in that race. Being second best isn't enough.

BTW, thx for the info on Shest!

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Chiasson is the guy the Rangers should look to sign. Guy has been played I think too much out of the role that suits him, which means a good season may be in store in the same way that Pouliot had a good year once put in the right role. 11 even strength goals last year would have tied him with Vesey on the Rangers. He's 26 and will come cheap.

You don't need to twist my arm--they should be looking for all the tweener forwards they can. It looks like there will be a need for rotating depth for 1-3 spots until November.

I think Vesey was actually 16G 11A.

 

[bernmeister]

More productive...

More productive...

Hm...not Crosby, not Ovechkin. I'm going to need something bigger.

Oh, there's one!!

I found one. One.

Now all we have to do is get St. Louis on the phone and we'll have the "more productive" goal-scoring winger you wanted.

great post, loved the gif!


Nash.
highest priority is to use that salary to repurpose cap space for our young core next year, offer max-ish term contracts to minimize-ish annual cap hit.

AFTER THAT, if Nash prefers the Gotham option, and he has enough bucks already and will play here for super cheap, we can do that on a 1 yr basis with an idea to renew if he still has enough in the tank.

But as for this year, follow example of Yankees and Chapman.
Rented him out for balance of year for profit, then resigned as UFA

Although it may be possible to squeeze more out of a partner in terms of assets obtained for Nash, especially if we eat part of his salary, I think we should go the other way.

Take less in picks/prospects, but enjoy max cap benefit. And do it now, before anybody gets injured or trading partner's situation changes.

While Marleau is gone, SJ still has Thornton. Nash is an ideal fit as a player and as to term.

We upgrade from 2 NYR 4s this year and next [2018+19] + Nash
in exchange for
first two available Shark 2nds [2019 +2020, I believe]

as part of this, SJ immediately eats all of Nash's 7.8.

Gorton and Clark know how to draft, the picks are good future value and the cap savings will be useful.

atm I am strongly in favor of keeping Miller and Hayes; however, if we don't keep, having them under longer term at more reasonable annual salary improves our bargaining position IF we decide to move them.

 

[nyr2k2]

We're in on and recruiting more players than we know. Pionk in particular was a high-profile free agent and I don't recall anything linking us to him prior to his signing. And again Georgiev was a guy I don't think anyone was aware was considering signing in North America, and then one day out of nowhere we sign him.

I think we just operate more under the radar. Maybe the Leafs want to advertise the fact that they're scouting and recruiting everywhere. I don't know. We always play it close to the vest.

We also get our fair share of mid-tier guys. Pedrie and Nell, for example, are unheralded signings that actually have the potential to become something substantially more down the road.

 

[Levitate]

I'm actually unsure as to whether flying the GM and coach out to wine and dine a guy overseas is worth it at all unless it's a big talent. Rangers probably had their scouts and team representatives talk to guys like Bereglazov and Georgiev and then talked to them directly via phone etc

Flying all the way out to personally meet with a guy comes across as a little bit desperate especially if we're not talking about a big talent

 

[Ola]

I'm actually unsure as to whether flying the GM and coach out to wine and dine a guy overseas is worth it at all unless it's a big talent. Rangers probably had their scouts and team representatives talk to guys like Bereglazov and Georgiev and then talked to them directly via phone etc

Flying all the way out to personally meet with a guy comes across as a little bit desperate especially if we're not talking about a big talent

Yeah thought so too. He is a good D, can become a top 4 maybe. But not Panarin II.

We actually got Bereglazov thanks to Mike Keenan who tipped us of him. We wasn't mentioned as a strong candidate for Zaitsev and Panarin, but who would have helped us a lot.

Just saying, you can always improve. Dolan spent 80m on salaries in 2003, the cap is still under that. We should have an unlimited budget when it comes to all areas of management of this team.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah I'd rather they be spending a lot of money on scouts and contacts around the hockey world in order to identify and contact possible players

 

[NickyFotiu]

More productive...

More productive...

Hm...not Crosby, not Ovechkin. I'm going to need something bigger.

Oh, there's one!!

I found one. One.

Now all we have to do is get St. Louis on the phone and we'll have the "more productive" goal-scoring winger you wanted.

I'm not bashing Nash but do we really want to compare him to Crosby, AO, and Tarasenko at this point in time?

 

[RGY]

Why havent we seen Jagr signed yet to play next to Miller...

 

[Miamipuck]

I'm not bashing Nash but do we really want to compare him to Crosby, AO, and Tarasenko at this point in time?

No we don't but it's better than an intellectually deficient narrative from the same poster over and over and over and over and over as if that perpetuated crap is going to somehow be true?

 

[Do you want ants]

Any idea when they'll release the traverse city roster?

 

[Irishguy42]

Any idea when they'll release the traverse city roster?

Next weekend at the earliest, I'd think. TCT isn't for another two weeks, and I feel like the Rangers usually announce their rosters for these things at the last minute or like...the day before.

 

[Avery16]

Training camp really can't come soon enough for this thread

 

[kovazub94]

There are people in Nash's age group who have signed Marleau deals and there are people who have signed for less. I would consult with all examples before coming to a conclusion.

It's up to Nash.

Definitely up to Nash to decide whether to take a paycut here or go after another payday elsewhere (where he might actually be happy as well).

From the Rangers perspective we already have Kreider and Zuke ahead of Nash even if by tiniest of margins (to not get into an argument). Buch hopefully will pass or match soon and with some decline from Nash in the coming years maybe also Miller or Vesey. And that's it. The Rangers do not have anyone to challenge Nash until probably Chytil is ready, likely a few seasons away. Still other than Zuke and Kreider, there are no sure things as none of the others ever played top6 in the NHL for any notable length of time. There clearly would be a desire to retain Nash if his willing to sign a team friendly contract.

 

[NickyFotiu]

No we don't but it's better than an intellectually deficient narrative from the same poster over and over and over and over and over as if that perpetuated crap is going to somehow be true?

I just think a more rational comparison would do a better job of making a point. If Nash at this time was anywhere close to equal to those 3 guys our phones would have been ringing off the hook with trade offers last off-season.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not bashing Nash but do we really want to compare him to Crosby, AO, and Tarasenko at this point in time?

At even strength? He's probably better than those first two.

Yes, the powerplay is a thing, and Nash is shockingly bad on the powerplay. Because of that, he doesn't really compare as an overall player.

But 5v5 he DOES compare to them, quite favorably. And I think it's ludicrous to suggest that he isn't worth bringing back at a discount when he's among the cream of the crop at even strength.

It's also ludicrous to suggest Nash doesn't produce as the poster in question has done many times, considering Nash has scored goals at a more efficient rate over the past 2-3 years than literally everyone but Tarasenko.

If there's anyone to blame here, it's AV. Nash essentially plays on the third line at even strength and is overused on the powerplay - the polar opposite of what the numbers say you should be doing.

But, you know, AV is smarter than math.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=135362321&postcount=1

Lou and Babcock flew to Moscow to have dinner with a solid (far from outstanding) KHL RD who can become a UFA next season.

I've said this before -- getting the young free agent is everything but just putting in an offer and waiting to see who is chosen. It's a long process and all about establishing trust and a relationship with these guys. A lot of work can be done.

I am definitely impressed with Gortons work in NY. But I do think we could do a lot more. Are our front office market leading? No, I think Toronto currently would blow us off the map. They are attacking desperately on all fronts to improve as much as possible. My big concern, who have ever sent their icon GM and legandary coach to Moscow, Russia to have dinner with an OK defensemen who could be signed and play in 14 months? Nobody before Toronto. They are taking it a step further, and this is just one example, I've seen indications of this several times the last year. Have we ever done something nobody else haven't don't before?

You cannot out smart people. The best saying I ever heard was that there are no smart people, only dumb people which are the people who think they are smarter than anyone else. Only hard work matters, doing more things than the rest. Finding new ways.

I think we are truly excellent in one area, probably more so than Toronto, and that is doing right by our players. I think really helps us and our reputation. But if you look at -- any -- other area really, I think you would see that Toronto is doing more than us. Of course not always "better", but in the long run the hard work/utilized resources will pay off.

Maybe they just wanted to make a pee pee movie?

 

[NickyFotiu]

At even strength? He's probably better than those first two.

Yes, the powerplay is a thing, and Nash is shockingly bad on the powerplay. Because of that, he doesn't really compare as an overall player.

But 5v5 he DOES compare to them, quite favorably. And I think it's ludicrous to suggest that he isn't worth bringing back at a discount when he's among the cream of the crop at even strength.

It's also ludicrous to suggest Nash doesn't produce as the poster in question has done many times, considering Nash has scored goals at a more efficient rate over the past 2-3 years than literally everyone but Tarasenko.

If there's anyone to blame here, it's AV. Nash essentially plays on the third line at even strength and is overused on the powerplay - the polar opposite of what the numbers say you should be doing.

But, you know, AV is smarter than math.

I'm not going to debate cherry picked stats or play the blame AV game. I'm not bashing Nash. I'm not saying Nash is a bad player. I'm just not going to pretend Nash is comparable to the other 3 players you named at this point in time. Zooks is probably comparable to many great players in terms of 5 on 5 first assists but that does not make him a comparable player. Players are judged on their whole games not cherry picked aspects of their games.