Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXXVI - On the Brink of Wasteland

[duhmetreE]

Watching the press conference after last night’s game, Kreider appeared to be very upset. He pulled his hat down over his eyes and took several seconds to answer the first question. Words measured very carefully.

I thought my stream froze.

Hes been a great lead off the ice and in the off season... I really was hoping he would take command of the locker room. This team needs some Alpha personalities... unfortunately one of them was a ticking time bomb.. and even worse he may have been the only one. Maybe Laf in some time. Where does Trouba fit in all of this?

At least we have KAM to look forward to.

 

[Levitate]

Umm maybe being scratched, taken off the PP and limited ice time all for supposedly 1 penalty.

He was benched not just for 1 penalty but for all the stuff that started going on in the back ground as well.

Like, we're not exactly getting it spelled out for us in a flashing neon sign but we did at least get handed a nicely worded letter that tell us a story about Dany T'Angelo and his no good very bad locker room interactions that started 6 weeks ago...

 

[Off Sides]

Upon reflection I'm sure there was some level of optimism that last season he had "put everything behind him." Additionally his production last year was just too rich, and I'm sure they thought the additional term would be seen as beneficial with any potential suitors given they were 99% looking to move him anyway due to Trouba/Fox/Lundqvist.

It would also not be surprising if the last year was not especially good for DeAngelo's "personality." This thread is all the evidence you need that tensions are at an all time high across the entire country and world. This fits with what Edge mentioned, that the situation appears to have deteriorated drastically in the last 6 weeks or so.

Just to address the bolded in particular, @Edge did mention that the problems had experienced a meaningful exacerbation in recent weeks.

Why that might be, we can only guess...

All due respect and I have much of it for the inside info, there are going to be at least three sides to this story and only one of them will be the truth, and again that is not to say I am defending ADA, more so, that would mean the Rangers foresight towards this situation was faulty one way or another.

 

[Edge]

If the team didn't want him and wasn't committed to him then he should have been moved for something. What is happening now is a disgrace and much worse than being upset with the return.

The team was not looking to push him out there door until or unless it made sense.

And what’s happening now is all on ADA and no one else. Period.

 

[Sayba]

Take your benching and demotions like a man and not a GD baby and try to fight your goalie and teammates directly after a f***ing game perhaps?

Do you know exactly what happened? I don't but I don't disagree with most of what you said honestly. I'm upset that we had a good young offensive defenseman gone with no return.

 

[B17 Apricots]

I mean this is kinda lame reasoning because it's saying that a coach should/could never try to hold a player accountable for anything because if the players acts like a child about it then there might have to be MORE consequences.

Thats not what im saying by any means. Its a matter of perspective. And it doesnt matter how I view it or any of us view it, but how his choices effect how players view things. It brings up the topic of DQs selective accountability, irrational line up choices and ice time usage, amongst a number of other things. It sends mixed signals in the lockeroom. Im glad someone posted that clip of DQs penalty. DQ can curse off a ref in a 4-0 game as a professional NHL coach and get penalized for it but when one his players does it he'll scratch him. Theres a laundry list of things like that which contributes to unsettling guys in the lockeroom. So my point isnt hey dont discipline a guy for being a mutt but rather when you pick and choose when to do so, limit players ice time, gift ineffective players ice time, your gonna start losing the lockeroom... and ultimately I think what happened with TDA was just the natural progression of that

Edit: Like I said, I'm not absolving Tony from responsibility. BUT, do I think this happens under a seasoned coach with experience dealing with professional athletes with egos and big personalities, I'm not so sure. I think such a coach could've harnessed Tonys brash personality effectively. As it sits right now DQ has not done a very good job getting the most out of his players

 

[JohnC]

I'm upset that we had a good young offensive defenseman gone with no return.

It’s not ideal but how long are you supposed to let the situation fester?

It literally came to blows within minutes of walking off the ice.

Why let an already out of control situation get more out of control?

I have no love for this coach but I don’t blame him for this one bit. It ain’t easy managing a malignant malcontent.

 

[duhmetreE]

No, not really.

This issue is an ADA thing and now a DQ thing. I suspect the captains basically said, “enough is enough, we can’t do this anymore.”

As for the okay of the team - the feeling within the organization (and in most parts of the league) is that this was an already suspect, transitional roster that is now dealing with 2 of its 4 center either being hurt or dealing with lingering issues, and a defense that was always suspect.

There’s a general feeling that the team to this point has basically been a .500 team. While not great, there is a feeling they’re better than the record.

I’ve yet to hear a single concern about the play of the Rangers younger talent or the way they are being brought along.

So right now, regardless of fan opinion, DQ really isn’t on the hot seat. Now that could certainly change, and change fairly quick, but we aren’t there yet.

If ADA was really an issue and dividing the room or 'moping', I'm glad it was dealt with.. I was just hoping for a nice return.

I do not know full details but once again, we need someone to step up and take control of the room. IMO it should not have come to this

 

[Edge]

Umm maybe being scratched, taken off the PP and limited ice time all for supposedly 1 penalty.

To clarify, ADA’s on ice play is the least of the reasons he is in his current situation.

It is his approach behind the scenes, which has gone from a non-issue to a major source of contention within the organization.

ADA is not waived because he was scratched and the Rangers don’t feel he’s talented.

ADA is waived because his teammates no longer trust him or want him around right now.

 

[Sayba]

The team was not looking to push him out there door until or unless it made sense.

And what’s happening now is all on ADA and no one else. Period.

Maybe so, but bottom line is it hurts the team in the end to lose him for nothing. I don't think you can say it's all him. The coach messed with him the first game of the season. Yes he handled it very poorly as we are seeing now. I guess it's just a complete loss at this point.

 

[Edge]

If ADA was really an issue and dividing the room or 'moping', I'm glad it was dealt with.. I was just hoping for a nice return.

I do not know full details but once again, we need someone to step up and take control of the room. IMO it should not have come to this

On the contrary, I think this IS them stepping up.

Unfortunately, stepping up doesn’t always result in a nice clean resolution or a happy outcome.

 

[Levitate]

All due respect and I have much of it for the inside info, there are going to be at least three sides to this story and only one of them will be the truth, and again that is not to say I am defending ADA, more so, that would mean the Rangers foresight towards this situation was faulty one way or another.

I think they always knew they were taking a gamble with a bit of a wildcard in DeAngelo but the talent was too enticing and he rewarded them last year with a pretty quiet distraction free year and putting up a lot of points, BUT they obviously weren't super sold on him long term either with the defensive issues, another great RD prospect in the works, and the continued distractions with the podcasts and social media stuff

I don't think they expected him to go off the rails over a political election and for it to become an issue

 

[duhmetreE]

On the contrary, I think this IS them stepping up.

Unfortunately, stepping up doesn’t always result in a nice clean resolution or a happy outcome.

I was hoping they stepped up and checked him before it came to this

If it means it happened now, great.

 

[Levitate]

Thats not what im saying by any means. Its a matter of perspective. And it doesnt matter how I view it or any of us view it, but how his choices effect how players view things. It brings up the topic of DQs selective accountability, irrational line up choices and ice time usage, amongst a number of other things. It sends mixed signals in the lockeroom. Im glad someone posted that clip of DQs penalty. DQ can curse off a ref in a 4-0 game as a professional NHL coach and get penalized for it but when one his players does it he'll scratch him. Theres a laundry list of things like that which contributes to unsettling guys in the lockeroom. So my point isnt hey dont discipline a guy for being a mutt but rather when you pick and choose when to do so, limit players ice time, gift ineffective players ice time, your gonna start losing the lockeroom... and ultimately I think what happened with TDA was just the natural progression of that

again, TDA didn't get benched just for a dumb penalty, he got benched for that and all the other shit that's been going on in the background.

 

[Edge]

Maybe so, but bottom line is it hurts the team in the end to lose him for nothing. I don't think you can say it's all him. The coach messed with him the first game of the season. Yes he handled it very poorly as we are seeing now. I guess it's just a complete loss at this point.

It has nothing to do with the coach messing with him.

It sucks, but when someone falls as far as they do, this quick, and nearly fights at least three of his teammates, there is no “salvaging” a situation.

This is 100 percent an ADA thing. And maybe the problem is that once again there is a damn near desperate, Hail Mary attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But this time, he doesn’t have the cover of being a stupid teenager. He’s a grown ass man and that shit just isn’t gonna fly.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Umm maybe being scratched, taken off the PP and limited ice time all for supposedly 1 penalty.

Or maybe the being scratched, taken off the PP, and limited ice time came after the problems had already started outside of games...?

Also, I think we can all agree that his on ice performance to this point in the season certainly didn’t merit any rewards.

 

[Edge]

I was hoping they stepped up and checked him before it came to this

If it means it happened now, great.

From reports, it really wasn’t an issue prior until six weeks ago. But unfortunately the last six weeks have gone from bad to worse to broken.

I’m told attempts were made, and it didn’t help. Last night was the end point, not the beginning.

 

[duhmetreE]

We really need a 6-0 win next game

 

[mas0764]

It boggles the mind that folks are still working SO hard to try to defend Tony. Or some part of Tony. Or one specific act of Tony’s even though yeah he probably did some stuff but at least not this one thing so how dare you accuse him of that let’s focus on that stupid blogger what about him huh you guys what about him.

His actions, in private, out of view of cameras and reporters, were such that they inspired the team to cut bait on him 8 games into a brand spanking new 2 year, $9.6MM contract.

If you’re arguing in favor of that guy, you’re on the wrong side of the argument. Period.


FFS, people.

For the record I think it seems to me most people are saying that if he got into a fistfight with a teammate that would certainly seem to be the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak, and people would understand that.

Frankly I think a lot of the pushback over the possible racism narrative is that there is a larger undercurrent brewing that centers on a lack of trust for Quinn’s deployment, development, and/or usage of his young talent. I suspect DeAngelo is not a MANAGEMENT favorite, and thus they are ready to part with him cause he doesn’t tow the line while good soldier Jack Johnson will continue to get chances to suck. That is management’s prerogative but it’s a much more troubling situation for the team’s future if they can’t develop talent.

For me I just see no evidence he’s done anything racist, and I view that as sort of an overused crutch to impugn someone without a more nuanced analysis.

The discussion of “Management doesn’t think he’s racist at all but was tired of him mouthing off to Quinn and so they cut him but Jack Johnson is friends with them on weekends so he will get run back out there again,” is a much more plausible yet frustrating possibility IMO.

 

[mas0764]

Sometimes it only takes one team.

But let’s also remember that 3 months ago much of this board wanted little to do with notion of moving ADA for someone like Monahan, or wanted a big return for him.

So even if we assume the Rangers had an offer of a first rounder floating around out there, the reality is that a significant section of this board would’ve crucified Gorton.

For only a late first, yeah, I would have been pissed.

Then again I argued against people who told me they wouldn’t take a top 8 pick for DeAngelo (ie to get Lundell) which was basically craziness.

 

[JohnC]

There is a very obvious difference between the current events of a year ago vs the current events of today that explain what happened here.

I can’t fathom how people are making this about the coaching.

A crazy person becoming increasingly crazy is being blamed on a mediocre hockey coach? Come on now...

 

[Avery16]

We really need a 6-0 win next game

We probably spend some amount of time In the Wasteland before emerging from it. It was only yesterday that we were on the brink.

 

[mas0764]

Take your benching and demotions like a man and not a GD baby and try to fight your goalie and teammates directly after a f***ing game perhaps?

Think this is the fairest thing you’ve said on this subject...

 

[Sayba]

It has nothing to do with the coach messing with him.

It sucks, but when someone falls as far as they do, this quick, and nearly fights at least three of his teammates, there is no “salvaging” a situation.

This is 100 percent an ADA thing. And maybe the problem is that once again there is a damn near desperate, Hail Mary attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But this time, he doesn’t have the cover of being a stupid teenager. He’s a grown ass man and that shit just isn’t gonna fly.

You have more information than I do, I'll take your account as accurate, ADA messed up and didn't handle this well. I was a fan of his game and remember you were/ are as well. It sucks that it came to this because we need everything to go right to turn this team around.

 

[Edge]

For only a late first, yeah, I would have been pissed.

Then again I argued against people who told me they wouldn’t take a top 8 pick for DeAngelo (ie to get Lundell) which was basically craziness.

To that last point, if a deal like that was on the table, I think Gorton would’ve brought a mask and suitcase to Tony’s home and driven him to the trae destination himself.

The general feeling around the league seemed to be “Tony posted some great numbers last year, but let’s see him so it again in a lineup where Fox is expected to surpass him.”

Well, we can say f***-all to doing it again this season for the Rangers, and the value goes with it.

And all of this was completely avoidable.