Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV

[NYR Viper]

Here's a couple of deals that would make sense to me:

To EDM:
Pavel Buchnevich

to NYR:
14th overall pick


To ARI:
22nd overall pick
Libor Hajek
Brett Howden
Brendan Smith

to NYR:
Christian Dvorak
Michael Grabner


I think Gorton will need to get creative if he wants to bring in a center and move out a winger. It may not be possible to do both things in the same deal due to team needs and circumstances.

 

[n8]

Christian Dvorak

I like Dvorak. He started to turn it on at the end of the season but 22nd OA is not enough to land him. If you add players, they'll want our young salary controlled players.
He also adds a player we have to protect/expose.

 

[mas0764]

I feel like I’ll get blowback on this, but again, I feel this is the time you start making tough decisions on the actual shape of the roster. We want to keep and slot everyone in, but with the unexpected additions of Kakko and Lafreniere, that’s most likely not feasible. Things got more crowded. We now know what our weaknesses are. We can take a more targeted approach.

Kravstov, for instance... is he going to be as good as Buch? Do we trust that he’ll adjust to NA and reach that potential? Is his value still high as a prospect and potential trade chip?

Chytil... is he going to get a shake at center? Will it be 3C all year with Strome glued to Panarin? Can he ever really breakout as a 3C? Is he even viewed as a center or is his future here on the wing? Do we have room on the wings if that’s the case?

DeAngelo, can we convince other GMs that he’s beyond his earlier faux pas and get full value for what he actually brings if we decide to shop him, or is he viewed as damaged goods despite his performance this season and would we be fielding low ball offers? What kind of extension is it gonna take to keep him and are we ready to commit to 3 RD or do we want to shop him for balance elsewhere? Similar conversation regarding Buch and value to us versus what GMs would offer and whether or not someone internally can fill his spot.

You look at all of these questions, you have the #22 pick, you aggressively work the phones... rather than moving up in the draft, could:

#22 + Strome +
#22 + DeAngelo +

Chytil/Krav/Buch/Howden/Georgie/Hajek

Land us something like a legitimate 23-28 year old 2C or 2LD plus a good 4th line PK guy (preferably center)?

Is it a lot to give up? Absolutely. I’m not saying the package would have to be that big. It all depends on what you actually discover when you start making calls and what decisions you make on some of these guys regarding the shape this roster is going to take. If you could add a legit 26 year old 2C and a veteran middle pair LD on decent contracts or a solid top pair LD and a 3C with grit for that type of package would it make the team better while leaving enough still in the pipes to have depth? I think so.

Panarin - Kreider - Lafreniere - Lemieux/Barron
Kakko - Buchnevich - Chytil/Kravstov - Gauthier

If Strome, one of Buch/Chyt/Krav and that 1st allowed you to acquire a significant upgrade on Strome and either a bottom six depth C of quality or a middle pair LD of quality, it would make the team better without taking a large hit to the wing depth.

Personally, aside from #1OA, I’m not interested in adding more futures. I think we need to make a shopping list from:

Georgiev
DeAngelo maybe
Strome maybe
One of Chytil/Krav/Buch
Howden
Hajek
Rykov
Jones
#22

And see what could be shaken free that addresses the areas the team obviously needs to improve. To me, Strome is fine for now and can still have value (depending on his contract) if he is shifted to 3C or the wing but isn’t a 2C I’m comfortable going to war with when the window opens. That makes a top six C one priority. We have a lot of defensive prospects coming who can make an impact and potentially be very, very good but, likewise, I’d rather a rookie Miller be an over achiever who we can shelter on the third pair (as opposed to just penciling him as a top four solution immediately) and who can step up if we get hit with injuries or poor play, than have to take big minutes by default when we’re ready to go to war, so that makes a top 4 LD another obvious priority. After that it’s just about finding a balance of tenacity and PK and energy for the bottom six.

I’m willing to ship off “high value” packages to shake the right pieces into our laps.

We shouldn't necessarily be adding more players that require protection in the expansion draft right now either. I know some posters want to complain about futures but adding a safe prospect like Lundell has value because he doesn't need protection... trading for Elias Lindholm does. Dealing #22 and a prospect for Lindholm means you just have to expose yet another forward. Yes you can only lose one, but that's a better player you now have to expose that you wouldn't have had to expose before, meaning that better player is probably the one you lose.

 

[NYR Viper]

I like Dvorak. He started to turn it on at the end of the season but 22nd OA is not enough to land him. If you add players, they'll want our young salary controlled players.
He also adds a player we have to protect/expose.

I could see a deal for Dvoak being 2-3 for 1 with a couple of other young players who may be exposed being included.

Arizona doesn't have THAT much of an issue with the expansion draft and doesn't have much in the pipeline honestly.

Kessel
Keller
Schmaltz
Crouse
Garland
Fischer
Hinostrozza
Dvorak
Hall (will he re-sign?)

I could see them moving Kessel if Hall leaves. Why keep an aging player when the team is rebuilding? Moving Dvorak opens up another slot.

 

[Tawnos]

We shouldn't necessarily be adding more players that require protection in the expansion draft right now either. I know some posters want to complain about futures but adding a safe prospect like Lundell has value because he doesn't need protection... trading for Elias Lindholm does. Dealing #22 and a prospect for Lindholm means you just have to expose yet another forward. Yes you can only lose one, but that's a better player you now have to expose that you wouldn't have had to expose before, meaning that better player is probably the one you lose.

Not remotely worried about this. At the moment, there are only 5 forwards that I consider "must protect." Panarin, Kreider, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, and Chytil. I don't think of Strome, Lemieux, Howden, Gauthier, or Fast (if re-signed) as must protect just yet. Some of those guys could change my mind on that but, right now, I'd gladly expose any of them if it meant needing to protect Elias Lindholm.

We probably shouldn't be adding defensemen we need to protect, but forwards would be fine.

 

[mas0764]

Here's a couple of deals that would make sense to me:

To EDM:
Pavel Buchnevich

to NYR:
14th overall pick


To ARI:
22nd overall pick
Libor Hajek
Brett Howden
Brendan Smith

to NYR:
Christian Dvorak
Michael Grabner


I think Gorton will need to get creative if he wants to bring in a center and move out a winger. It may not be possible to do both things in the same deal due to team needs and circumstances.

Buch for 14 is great because then you get really aggressive for Lundell if he gets past like 9.

 

[n8]

Buch for 14 is great because then you get really aggressive for Lundell if he gets past like 9.

except I just can't see Buch pulling the 14th OA. We'd have to throw in a 3rd or something like that.
That might be enticing for EDM as they do no have a 2nd, 3rd, OR 4th round pick.

 

[QJL]

I think it depends on what you are trading futures for...trading picks and prospects for a 25 year old that can be part of the team for 8+ years is completely different than trading them for 30+ year old rentals to put the team over the top obviously.

collecting future talent isn't a phase of the rebuild, that is something that should never end. And why revamping player development, scouting staffs etc are possibly the most important thing for the long term of the franchise...like you said its about long term sustainability as a contender, and reality is that if things work out for the majority of our players we won't be able to keep the team together because of the cap. so you need to determine the core of the team that you spend on and then continue to develop talent to help replace the guys that you lose as support players.

The thing is... there are no 25 year olds we acquire now that fit into the 5 year cap situation for this team. That’s exactly why we constantly talk about trading Buch, Fast, DeAngelo, and Strome. The money just won’t work. We need 20-25 year olds filling roles, not 25-30 year olds doing the same thing for more money.

 

[NYR Viper]

except I just can't see Buch pulling the 14th OA. We'd have to throw in a 3rd or something like that.
That might be enticing for EDM as they do no have a 2nd, 3rd, OR 4th round pick.

It was rumored Edmonton offered their pick last year for Buch. Now was that one for one? Who knows. That was pick #8. So even though some drafts have varying values of picks based on depth, etc I'd think that the #14 would be something that would be discussed IF Edmonton was still looking at Buch.

 

[Leetch3]

Christian Dvorak

how is dvorak on the defensive side of things? I see he doesn't kill penalties...

 

[NYR Viper]

how is dvorak on the defensive side of things? I see he doesn't kill penalties...

He's very good

 

[Fitzy]

how is dvorak on the defensive side of things? I see he doesn't kill penalties...

People I've talked to seem to think that this is simply because Arizona has so many good penalty killers as it is.

 

[Fitzy]

Here's a couple of deals that would make sense to me:

To EDM:
Pavel Buchnevich

to NYR:
14th overall pick


To ARI:
22nd overall pick
Libor Hajek
Brett Howden
Brendan Smith

to NYR:
Christian Dvorak
Michael Grabner


I think Gorton will need to get creative if he wants to bring in a center and move out a winger. It may not be possible to do both things in the same deal due to team needs and circumstances.

I like it except for Grabner. Between Panarin, Laf, Kreider, Lemieux, and Barron, there's just no room on the left.

 

[Leetch3]

The thing is... there are no 25 year olds we acquire now that fit into the 5 year cap situation for this team. That’s exactly why we constantly talk about trading Buch, Fast, DeAngelo, and Strome. The money just won’t work. We need 20-25 year olds filling roles, not 25-30 year olds doing the same thing for more money.

I was talking in general not specifically a deal that could happen right now...to me trading a prospect for a guy that can be part of the team for 8+ years isn't really trading away a future cause that is part of a long term plan. of course assuming you are talking 1 for 1. if you are giving up 4-5 futures for 1 guy that becomes a different conversation. but no futures for rentals.

 

[Trxjw]

It was rumored Edmonton offered their pick last year for Buch. Now was that one for one? Who knows. That was pick #8. So even though some drafts have varying values of picks based on depth, etc I'd think that the #14 would be something that would be discussed IF Edmonton was still looking at Buch.

If memory serves, I believe there were other pieces involved from either side as well. I think it was something like Buch and Namestnikov for 8 and Puljujarvi. I might be mixing up info though.

I don't really see anything from Edmonton's side that would mean they were no longer interested in a winger. Yamamoto took off but they're still short on top-six wings. However the Rangers desire to move a body for a pick seems to have changed. There could be multiple moves that work out to no NHL bodies really lost in the aggregate but it's tough to make that many trades in succession. Once one deal is signed off on it could easily change the dynamics of another.

 

[LokiDog]

the big issue with this is the lack of cap space...we now have elite talent both current and future so I agree that its time to figure out where everyone fits and look to build a complete team. But unless hank/staal retire suddenly giving us a ton of cap space we might be a year away from having the space to make these maneuvers.

Strome is going to get 4.5-5M, ADA 5-6M, Geo 2-3M, Buch makes 3.5M. If 1-2 of them is going the other way, that’s the cap space.

 

[LokiDog]

I think it depends on what you are trading futures for...trading picks and prospects for a 25 year old that can be part of the team for 8+ years is completely different than trading them for 30+ year old rentals to put the team over the top obviously.

collecting future talent isn't a phase of the rebuild, that is something that should never end. And why revamping player development, scouting staffs etc are possibly the most important thing for the long term of the franchise...like you said its about long term sustainability as a contender, and reality is that if things work out for the majority of our players we won't be able to keep the team together because of the cap. so you need to determine the core of the team that you spend on and then continue to develop talent to help replace the guys that you lose as support players.

Exactly. We’re not talking about spending futures for 6mo or even 2 year stop gaps at the end of/past their primes. Continuing to add 18 year olds doesn’t get us any closer while Panarin, Trouba, Zib and Kreider are still positive assets. There is a middle ground where moving a late 1st and a prospect whose getting crowded out of a roster spot makes sense to add a mid-20s guy to be a piece of larger picture.

 

[LokiDog]

However, I may have to rescind comments about Buch’s availability. Loving this guys new look.

 

[NYR Viper]

I like it except for Grabner. Between Panarin, Laf, Kreider, Lemieux, and Barron, there's just no room on the left.

Fair, I was thinking removing Grabner from Arizona alleviates a large salary for them, not so much that I am enamored with him. And he only has 1 year left

 

[LokiDog]

Fair, I was thinking removing Grabner from Arizona alleviates a large salary for them, not so much that I am enamored with him. And he only has 1 year left

He’s played both sides and is decent bottom six depth if a kid falters or we decide to make another move at the deadline. Could also be flipped at the deadline. I don’t mind Grabner being involved.

 

[Ola]

View attachment 366802 However, I may have to rescind comments about Buch’s availability. Loving this guys new look.

Love is not a strong enough word.

 

[jay from jersey]

We shouldn't necessarily be adding more players that require protection in the expansion draft right now either. I know some posters want to complain about futures but adding a safe prospect like Lundell has value because he doesn't need protection... trading for Elias Lindholm does. Dealing #22 and a prospect for Lindholm means you just have to expose yet another forward. Yes you can only lose one, but that's a better player you now have to expose that you wouldn't have had to expose before, meaning that better player is probably the one you lose.

Does anyone think 1 of Trouba Fox or Tony D will be tried on the left side this year? Just to see if that experiment can work? I know Trouba played there with Buff and fans said it was one of his main reasons for leaving however I think he was just saying whatever he could to try and be a good soldier for the jets after the contract dispute. It was very amusing after he signed his deal all jets fans thought he and Chevy had worked out their problems and he was going to sign there long term. If you want a laugh go look at the old Trouba to NYR threads. Some of the things said in there were hilariously ridiculous. A lot of us had him being traded pegged from the beginning. ( no pun intended).

 

[jay from jersey]

He’s played both sides and is decent bottom six depth if a kid falters or we decide to make another move at the deadline. Could also be flipped at the deadline. I don’t mind Grabner being involved.

sorry broski but grabs is done. He is not the same player he was here since his injury. He is not worth the roster spot on a young hungry team at his contract quite frankly. I bet the Yotes would love to off load him somewhere. Would love Dvorak here though. He’s a damn good center. Defensively responsible, good contract, right age, has some untapped offense in his game. If Chytil busts out this year and emerges as the 2C many think he will you can drop DVO down to third line in a more defensive role and not miss a beat. He would be a great trade target. But the Yotes are thin at center and I have no idea what their ask would be. Probably a lot. I d do Buch plus 22 plus a D prospect for him for sure. But I doubt that gets it done

 

[Fitzy]

Fair, I was thinking removing Grabner from Arizona alleviates a large salary for them, not so much that I am enamored with him. And he only has 1 year left

I just think Smith is far too important to this team right now (Unfortunately) to flip him for Grabner.

Smith playing even 3rd pairing level for us next year will make a huge difference.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Does anyone think 1 of Trouba Fox or Tony D will be tried on the left side this year? Just to see if that experiment can work? I know Trouba played there with Buff and fans said it was one of his main reasons for leaving however I think he was just saying whatever he could to try and be a good soldier for the jets after the contract dispute. It was very amusing after he signed his deal all jets fans thought he and Chevy had worked out their problems and he was going to sign there long term. If you want a laugh go look at the old Trouba to NYR threads. Some of the things said in there were hilariously ridiculous. A lot of us had him being traded pegged from the beginning. ( no pun intended).

Its not ideal, Trouba didn't like doing it in Winnipeg but that was before he signed a contract so maybe that was his issue with it. Fox for me would likely have the easiest transition, i think Tony has enough issues defensively that he should stay on his normal side, it would be nice if it could work but we won't likely see it much this year without Lindqvist