I remember hearing that earlier in the season as well but it seemed to widen a bit as the year went on. A few kids had better seasons than expected while others sort of stalled a bit.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV
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I remember hearing that earlier in the season as well but it seemed to widen a bit as the year went on. A few kids had better seasons than expected while others sort of stalled a bit.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
In that same vein, I fully expect the Rangers to ping Montral, Chicago and Calgary to at least gauge their mood on the draft. If they have not done so already.
Well it could certainly be a guy nobody is expecting. It could also be for a guy nobody thinks has that kind of value a la JT Miller to Vancouver or Kapanen to Pittsburgh. All it takes is the internal belief that a player is the right fit and can out-perform the value dealt and suddenly Jake Virtanen goes for the 22nd pick and everyone outside that room loses their minds.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
And that's always a looming possibility over the next few weeks.
While I personally would not go that route, it's also not my decision.
Now for anyone having heartburn over the possibility of the Rangers trading the 22nd pick for Virtanen, I don't believe that's going to be a prime target for the Rangers.
If this Virtanen had a few 20 goal/50 point seasons under his belt, and had run afoul of coaches, perhaps it would. But I'm not sure he fits the profile of a guy the Rangers would pay a premium for.
We've certainly hashed out the latter two ad nauseam but Montreal is an interesting one. They're the odd-man in that list in terms of a trade-up with Georgiev. I know Bergevin advertised his pick as being available but that was more for immediate help, IIRC.
SA16
Sixstring
I've long thought the drop off in this draft class was right before pick 1 and then right after pick 21.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
And I'm curious as to what he may be thinking. I mentioned Lemieux as someone who I strongly suspect would be of interest for them. I don't think it's the Rangers first choice, but with Barron coming in, it may not be an automatic "no" either.
Yeah and I don't want people to interpret that as being my target either. Just throwing it out there as something that could happen. We all have our hopes when it comes to what player might come back for that pick but it's really up to the Rangers to determine who they want and where they see potential. If we move that pick there's no telling who the target will be but it's not a guarantee that we as fans will see it as the right move in the short term.
Yeah I could see that as a landing spot for Lemieux. Can't say I would love it at first glance but I guess it really depends on who is on the board.
Agent: Ottawa Senators D Mark Borowiecki set to test free agency - TSN.ca
should the Rangers target Borocop???
provides more grit leadership and much needed toughness, would be a good mentor for Lindgren since they play a similar style.
should the Rangers target Borocop???
provides more grit leadership and much needed toughness, would be a good mentor for Lindgren since they play a similar style.
NYRangers16
Registered User
Re: Getting great contracts - the answer is to stop doing these stupid bridge deals.
definitely would be an option for cheap depth on the blueline and he played 53 games last year so he'd only need to get into 17 games to hit 70 to cover our exposure requirements for the expansion draft...
it depends on the player....you can get into even more trouble by giving out long term deals instead of bridge deals to the wrong guys. And the player and agent are aware of the fact that signing long term deals benefits the team if they become stars therefore it is bad for them. the player has a say in this too
I feel like I’ll get blowback on this, but again, I feel this is the time you start making tough decisions on the actual shape of the roster. We want to keep and slot everyone in, but with the unexpected additions of Kakko and Lafreniere, that’s most likely not feasible. Things got more crowded. We now know what our weaknesses are. We can take a more targeted approach.
Kravstov, for instance... is he going to be as good as Buch? Do we trust that he’ll adjust to NA and reach that potential? Is his value still high as a prospect and potential trade chip?
Chytil... is he going to get a shake at center? Will it be 3C all year with Strome glued to Panarin? Can he ever really breakout as a 3C? Is he even viewed as a center or is his future here on the wing? Do we have room on the wings if that’s the case?
DeAngelo, can we convince other GMs that he’s beyond his earlier faux pas and get full value for what he actually brings if we decide to shop him, or is he viewed as damaged goods despite his performance this season and would we be fielding low ball offers? What kind of extension is it gonna take to keep him and are we ready to commit to 3 RD or do we want to shop him for balance elsewhere? Similar conversation regarding Buch and value to us versus what GMs would offer and whether or not someone internally can fill his spot.
You look at all of these questions, you have the #22 pick, you aggressively work the phones... rather than moving up in the draft, could:
#22 + Strome +
#22 + DeAngelo +
Chytil/Krav/Buch/Howden/Georgie/Hajek
Land us something like a legitimate 23-28 year old 2C or 2LD plus a good 4th line PK guy (preferably center)?
Is it a lot to give up? Absolutely. I’m not saying the package would have to be that big. It all depends on what you actually discover when you start making calls and what decisions you make on some of these guys regarding the shape this roster is going to take. If you could add a legit 26 year old 2C and a veteran middle pair LD on decent contracts or a solid top pair LD and a 3C with grit for that type of package would it make the team better while leaving enough still in the pipes to have depth? I think so.
Panarin - Kreider - Lafreniere - Lemieux/Barron
Kakko - Buchnevich - Chytil/Kravstov - Gauthier
If Strome, one of Buch/Chyt/Krav and that 1st allowed you to acquire a significant upgrade on Strome and either a bottom six depth C of quality or a middle pair LD of quality, it would make the team better without taking a large hit to the wing depth.
Personally, aside from #1OA, I’m not interested in adding more futures. I think we need to make a shopping list from:
Georgiev
DeAngelo maybe
Strome maybe
One of Chytil/Krav/Buch
Howden
Hajek
Rykov
Jones
#22
And see what could be shaken free that addresses the areas the team obviously needs to improve. To me, Strome is fine for now and can still have value (depending on his contract) if he is shifted to 3C or the wing but isn’t a 2C I’m comfortable going to war with when the window opens. That makes a top six C one priority. We have a lot of defensive prospects coming who can make an impact and potentially be very, very good but, likewise, I’d rather a rookie Miller be an over achiever who we can shelter on the third pair (as opposed to just penciling him as a top four solution immediately) and who can step up if we get hit with injuries or poor play, than have to take big minutes by default when we’re ready to go to war, so that makes a top 4 LD another obvious priority. After that it’s just about finding a balance of tenacity and PK and energy for the bottom six.
I’m willing to ship off “high value” packages to shake the right pieces into our laps.
Kravstov, for instance... is he going to be as good as Buch? Do we trust that he’ll adjust to NA and reach that potential? Is his value still high as a prospect and potential trade chip?
Chytil... is he going to get a shake at center? Will it be 3C all year with Strome glued to Panarin? Can he ever really breakout as a 3C? Is he even viewed as a center or is his future here on the wing? Do we have room on the wings if that’s the case?
DeAngelo, can we convince other GMs that he’s beyond his earlier faux pas and get full value for what he actually brings if we decide to shop him, or is he viewed as damaged goods despite his performance this season and would we be fielding low ball offers? What kind of extension is it gonna take to keep him and are we ready to commit to 3 RD or do we want to shop him for balance elsewhere? Similar conversation regarding Buch and value to us versus what GMs would offer and whether or not someone internally can fill his spot.
You look at all of these questions, you have the #22 pick, you aggressively work the phones... rather than moving up in the draft, could:
#22 + Strome +
#22 + DeAngelo +
Chytil/Krav/Buch/Howden/Georgie/Hajek
Land us something like a legitimate 23-28 year old 2C or 2LD plus a good 4th line PK guy (preferably center)?
Is it a lot to give up? Absolutely. I’m not saying the package would have to be that big. It all depends on what you actually discover when you start making calls and what decisions you make on some of these guys regarding the shape this roster is going to take. If you could add a legit 26 year old 2C and a veteran middle pair LD on decent contracts or a solid top pair LD and a 3C with grit for that type of package would it make the team better while leaving enough still in the pipes to have depth? I think so.
Panarin - Kreider - Lafreniere - Lemieux/Barron
Kakko - Buchnevich - Chytil/Kravstov - Gauthier
If Strome, one of Buch/Chyt/Krav and that 1st allowed you to acquire a significant upgrade on Strome and either a bottom six depth C of quality or a middle pair LD of quality, it would make the team better without taking a large hit to the wing depth.
Personally, aside from #1OA, I’m not interested in adding more futures. I think we need to make a shopping list from:
Georgiev
DeAngelo maybe
Strome maybe
One of Chytil/Krav/Buch
Howden
Hajek
Rykov
Jones
#22
And see what could be shaken free that addresses the areas the team obviously needs to improve. To me, Strome is fine for now and can still have value (depending on his contract) if he is shifted to 3C or the wing but isn’t a 2C I’m comfortable going to war with when the window opens. That makes a top six C one priority. We have a lot of defensive prospects coming who can make an impact and potentially be very, very good but, likewise, I’d rather a rookie Miller be an over achiever who we can shelter on the third pair (as opposed to just penciling him as a top four solution immediately) and who can step up if we get hit with injuries or poor play, than have to take big minutes by default when we’re ready to go to war, so that makes a top 4 LD another obvious priority. After that it’s just about finding a balance of tenacity and PK and energy for the bottom six.
I’m willing to ship off “high value” packages to shake the right pieces into our laps.
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
Off Sides
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It's risky either way, however even when the gamble goes just average, Skjei for example, the player can still have value.
The organization should have a pretty good idea of what the player is by the end of his entry level. If they are pretty confident there should be no reason not to offer something longer term.
Sure the player too needs to want to go that route, yet it seems like some teams have figured it out better than others in terms of being able to sign what are generally considered bargain contracts. I feel as if the Rangers are headed more towards the Leafs and less towards Tampa, Boston in that regard.
Amazing Kreiderman
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The trick here is to bridge the right players. Gorton avoided a bridge deal with Skjei and that didn't work out well.
the big issue with this is the lack of cap space...we now have elite talent both current and future so I agree that its time to figure out where everyone fits and look to build a complete team. But unless hank/staal retire suddenly giving us a ton of cap space we might be a year away from having the space to make these maneuvers.
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Skjei's contract was not really such a great bargain from the get go and they still moved him for a 1st. While that was not ideal, that is better than them bridging him, still thinking he was good after two years, and then extending him to an even bigger contract off his bridge or deciding he was not worth the next contract off the bridge and selling him for less than a 1st like they did with JT Miller.
The goal here should be building a dynasty, not a short term sprint at the cup for 1-2 years. I think there’s a middle ground of selling for NHL-ready assets and keeping our 1st round picks and top prospects to build long-term. The first year I’d consider actively selling off futures is 2022.
I think it depends on what you are trading futures for...trading picks and prospects for a 25 year old that can be part of the team for 8+ years is completely different than trading them for 30+ year old rentals to put the team over the top obviously.
collecting future talent isn't a phase of the rebuild, that is something that should never end. And why revamping player development, scouting staffs etc are possibly the most important thing for the long term of the franchise...like you said its about long term sustainability as a contender, and reality is that if things work out for the majority of our players we won't be able to keep the team together because of the cap. so you need to determine the core of the team that you spend on and then continue to develop talent to help replace the guys that you lose as support players.
NYR Viper
Registered User
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
I posted this earlier. It has a lot to do with who you keep, what role they'll play and who you replace and how you replace them.
We assume we're keeping Panarin/Kreider/Lafreniere
We assume we're keeping Zibanejad, Chytil
We assume we're keeping Kakko
We assume we're keeping Trouba, Fox, Lindgren, Miller
We assume we're keeping Shesterkin
Keeping but could be move, Lemiuex, Strome, Buchnevich, Howden, Gauthier, Kravtsov, Deangelo, Lundkvist, Georgiev
X Factor - Fast
One example of how you might replace a player is analyzing the loss of Fast. How do you replace him? What are you replacing? His 12 goals and 17 assists shouldn't be too hard to replace.
Our top 4 penalty killers last season were Fast, Strome, Zibanejad, and Howden. Their PPGA/60 were respectively (9.23, 6.89, 8.83, 9.39)
If we lose Fast to UFA, we will need to replace his ice time but we can certainly improve on those poor PPGA/60 numbers. If Barron was a lock, he'd be a serious contender for that ice time but since he isn't we should plan for that.
We ranked 23rd in PK this season at 77.4% so I think you can make a case for improving our PK team as well. Among our top PK defensemen, Trouba/Skjei actually had a worse PPGA/60 (10.28/8.3) than Smith/Staal (7.49/7.19). Lindgren was the best at 6.95
For comparison, SJS had the best PK last season
Their best 4 PPGA/60 were Burns (3.81), Vlasic (4.59), Dillon (5.51), and Karlsson (6.24)
Forwards PPGA/60 were Kane (2.07), Goodrow (4.75), Couture (4.78), Sorensen (5.55), M.Karlsson (5.55)
But they finished 3rd to last in the league. But then again Boston finished 3rd in PK and they were first in the league.
And maybe it was all Ruff's fault and Martin will fix our numbers good. Pittsburgh's PK ranked 10th in the league.
I keep seeing this name as if for some reason AZ would make him avail? I don’t see why they would.
the only names I’ve seen that intrigue me so far (and I’m talking about names we’ve seen not mystery names obviously hence why I said in my post I haven’t seen anything out there that makes me want to deal that pick)
Are:
Danault- id rather send them Buchy and even so we’d have to know what it would look like to sign him to an extension. Can’t be big money.
Dunn-intriguing but only if we are serious about moving Tony. Not paying them both but I might give up the 22 for him.
Lindholm- I would give up the pick MAYBE but not even sure he’s really avail.
SA16
Sixstring
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