Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVII: On to Arbitration & the 2nd Buyout Window

[GoAwayPanarin]

healthy scratch Staal until he waives his NMC

Or just HS him until his contract runs out.

If he's the leader and presence everyone thinks he is, then he should have no issue sitting and providing guidance for better players.

 

[Tawnos]

Or just HS him until his contract runs out.

If he's the leader and presence everyone thinks he is, then he should have no issue sitting and providing guidance for better players.

Except that you can't be as effective at it when you're not in the lineup.

 

[GAGLine]

Colorado has a ton of cap space and their only RHD are Johnson and Makar. Without Barrie they don't really have anyone who can play on the 2nd unit either. Johnson plays there on and off but they prefer not to use him there and Girard has got some time there with adequate results. If anything happens to Makar/Johnson they have very little depth there unless you count Timmins who has never played a professional game and missed all of last year. There's almost no way they will have less than 6M in cap space after they sign their RFAs. They also can deal with a guy for two years as they have no important RFA/UFA next year and the UFA class in the league is terrible. I would rather try and trade them a retained Shattenkirk than Kreider as their prospect pool for Kreider is not particularly appealing.

Yeah, I guess they could be a possibility. I figured with the number of dmen they already have, that they wouldn't be looking to add another, particularly since they originally drafted Shatty and traded him away. Graves and Rosen are likely to be sent down, but that still leaves them with 7 dmen. Maybe we take back Barberio or Connauton as part of the deal.

They'll have to re-sign Jost and Zadorov next summer, but they've got 4.25 mil in dead cap coming off the books, plus 4 pending UFAs that may not be re-signed. If we trade him at 50% (2 years @ 3.325 mil) for Connauton (1 year @ 1.375 mil). that would save us 1.95 mil this year and 3.325 mil next year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Except that you can't be as effective at it when you're not in the lineup.

I don't believe this for a second. There have been plenty of guys who played sparingly who were on the roster because they brought a positive influence to the room.

Plus anything he brings leadership wise is less valuable than the negative impacts he has on the ice. No one is a good enough leader to justify dressing and putting your team at a major disadvantage when ever said player is on the ice.

 

[Kovalev27]

Just to be clear we’re entering shut it down summer mode and we still haven’t:

A hired a coaching staff in Hartford
B traded or extended Chris Kreider
C Bought anyone out
D signed Trouba Kakko Buchy ADA or Lemieux
E Havent traded anyone to make cap space to do D.

We’ve got ALOT to do. A whole heck of a lot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just to be clear we’re entering shut it down summer mode and we still haven’t:

A hired a coaching staff in Hartford
B traded or extended Chris Kreider
C Bought anyone out
D signed Trouba Kakko Buchy ADA or Lemieux
E Havent traded anyone to make cap space to do D.

We’ve got ALOT to do. A whole heck of a lot.

A. Is in the process of happening and really doesn't need to happen for another month or so
B. See A
C. Can't happen before D
D. Will all be sorted out in a few weeks
E. See A and B

 

[Tawnos]

I don't believe this for a second. There have been plenty of guys who played sparingly who were on the roster because they brought a positive influence to the room.

Plus anything he brings leadership wise is less valuable than the negative impacts he has on the ice. No one is a good enough leader to justify dressing and putting your team at a major disadvantage when ever said player is on the ice.

It depends on your goal. If your goal is to develop your young players and you aren't worried about the results on the scoreboard, then yes... players can have good enough intangibles to justify them having negative impacts on the ice (which are almost always vastly overstated in these discussions). It's not only about leadership. It's also about mentorship. And more importantly, we are talking about peer leadership and mentoring here... which is a different animal than top-down leadership and mentoring (i.e. coaching).

If you don't believe "for a second" that a person needs to be part of the group when things are actually happening to maximize the positive influence of their peer leadership and mentoring ability, then you have absolutely no handle on the way group dynamics work.

 

[Krams]

Just to be clear we’re entering shut it down summer mode and we still haven’t:

A hired a coaching staff in Hartford
B traded or extended Chris Kreider
C Bought anyone out
D signed Trouba Kakko Buchy ADA or Lemieux
E Havent traded anyone to make cap space to do D.

We’ve got ALOT to do. A whole heck of a lot.

It's July 9th.

 

[RGY]

Just to be clear we’re entering shut it down summer mode and we still haven’t:

A hired a coaching staff in Hartford
B traded or extended Chris Kreider
C Bought anyone out
D signed Trouba Kakko Buchy ADA or Lemieux
E Havent traded anyone to make cap space to do D.

We’ve got ALOT to do. A whole heck of a lot.

All 31 teams are doing the same thing. It is quiet. Not sure why there is a reason to be alarmed.

Its like the 31 teams went into a heavy long week battle from the draft through July 1st, retreated to their camps to regroup and strategize as they prepare to head back out for that same patch of land to come out victorious.

Part of the strategizing right now for every team involves their evaluation of the salary cap, looking at all options, all possible paths, and trying to determine what is the most viable solution.

This is different than years past because of the cap not rising as much and the extensive RFA class.

 

[Kovalev27]

A. Is in the process of happening and really doesn't need to happen for another month or so
B. See A
C. Can't happen before D
D. Will all be sorted out in a few weeks
E. See A and B

So none of those things have happened and we’ve got ALOt to do like I said

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It depends on your goal. If your goal is to develop your young players and you aren't worried about the results on the scoreboard, then yes... players can have good enough intangibles to justify them having negative impacts on the ice (which are almost always vastly overstated in these discussions). It's not only about leadership. It's also about mentorship. And more importantly, we are talking about peer leadership and mentoring here... which is a different animal than top-down leadership and mentoring (i.e. coaching).

If you don't believe "for a second" that a person needs to be part of the group when things are actually happening to maximize the positive influence of their peer leadership and mentoring ability, then you have absolutely no handle on the way group dynamics work.

Again, all things that can happen with out him being a part of the every day roster.

I'm sorry, I don't buy FOR A SECOND that his mentoring on the bench during games is that valuable (if it even occurs), especially when his actual performance is so much worse than his peers. The argument that I've seen for keeping Staal is that hes essentially a 5th coach, he doesn't need to play to do that.

Most development and progress really happens between games anyway. Staal can still take part in practice and all the video meetings and all the non game stuff that occurs.

If you want to talk about group dynamics, there is no better way to kill positive development of a team than to reward someone for doing everything wrong.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So none of those things have happened and we’ve got ALOt to do like I said

Yeah but it's still early in the offseason, the season hasn't even been over for a month yet.

R-E-L-A-X.

 

[Kovalev27]

Oh I’m relaxed. Very relaxed. But when you get to mid July with that much to do that means you’re going to have to have a very busy end of July and August to get things done and when was the last time anyone had a busy August? Most teams have their rosters and cap money spent and or penciled. Hard to make trades when it gets this late.

I also heard the same thing about Hayes and zucc last summer and they ended up staying

Heard same thing about spooner and namestnikov and they ended up getting two terrible deals for multiple years when they should have been dealt.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

All they have to do is sign their RFA's and deal 2 players/1 player and buy someone out.

It isn't as hectic as you're making it out to be.

 

[RGY]

Teams with the most cap space right now are:

Colorado
Winnipeg
Ottawa

The first two teams could absolutely see value in having a veteran defenseman like Smith on the roster. Colorado just shipped out Barrie, they have Makar and potentially Byrum. Obviously Byrum might not make the team this year but still.

Attach a 3rd or 4th round pick to him and you could entice those teams to take him on for only 2 more seasons.

Those are also teams that could be interested in Vlad Namestnikov. A solid depth winger who can also take some faceoffs.

Other teams that may like Names:

LAK
MIN
CAR
CGY

The Rangers probably have their feelers out there and are waiting on what those teams decide

 

[Kupo]

So none of those things have happened and we’ve got ALOt to do like I said

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Byram is almost certainly going to get a long look with the Avs.

Shattenkirk is the more obvious fit there if they're in need of a veteran presence. They only have 2 RHD on the roster and Makar is very green.

 

[Tawnos]

Again, all things that can happen with out him being a part of the every day roster.

I'm sorry, I don't buy FOR A SECOND that his mentoring on the bench during games is that valuable (if it even occurs), especially when his actual performance is so much worse than his peers. The argument that I've seen for keeping Staal is that hes essentially a 5th coach, he doesn't need to play to do that.

Most development and progress really happens between games anyway. Staal can still take part in practice and all the video meetings and all the non game stuff that occurs.

If you want to talk about group dynamics, there is no better way to kill positive development of a team than to reward someone for doing everything wrong.

This post conveys a deep, deep misunderstanding on how teams and group dynamics work in the real world.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This post conveys a deep, deep misunderstanding on how teams and group dynamics work in the real world.

Lmao what ever helps you sleep at night.

I can't think of a single team, athletics or otherwise, who benefit from rewarding underperforming employees, and in this case, an underperforming employee who is significantly worse than 8 or 9 of his peers in a position that only has 6 open slots.

You must have loved AV.

 

[GAGLine]

Teams with the most cap space right now are:

Colorado
Winnipeg
Ottawa

The first two teams could absolutely see value in having a veteran defenseman like Smith on the roster. Colorado just shipped out Barrie, they have Makar and potentially Byrum. Obviously Byrum might not make the team this year but still.

I don't think Winnipeg would be interested. They've still got to sign Laine, Conner, Copp and Pionk, with Morrisey due a raise next summer.

Ottawa is too cheap. Smith is still owed 7.875 mil. Maybe next year after his bonus is paid. He'll only be owed 2.35 mil then.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think Winnipeg would be interested. They've still got to sign Laine, Conner, Copp and Pionk, with Morrisey due a raise next summer.

Ottawa is too cheap. Smith is still owed 7.875 mil. Maybe next year after his bonus is paid. He'll only be owed 2.35 mil then.

If their cap wasn't a complete cluster f***, Toronto may have been an option.

How did Ken Holland feel about Smith?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Looks like the team has another roster spot to fill...

how much cap space did this clear?

 

[QJL]

Just to be clear we’re entering shut it down summer mode and we still haven’t:

A hired a coaching staff in Hartford
B traded or extended Chris Kreider
C Bought anyone out
D signed Trouba Kakko Buchy ADA or Lemieux
E Havent traded anyone to make cap space to do D.

We’ve got ALOT to do. A whole heck of a lot.

Minus Hartford, trades or buyouts need to happen first. There’s really no way around it. I trust Gorton and have no problem with him working the phones for the right deal.

 

[Leetch3]

Teams with the most cap space right now are:

Colorado
Winnipeg
Ottawa

The first two teams could absolutely see value in having a veteran defenseman like Smith on the roster. Colorado just shipped out Barrie, they have Makar and potentially Byrum. Obviously Byrum might not make the team this year but still.

Attach a 3rd or 4th round pick to him and you could entice those teams to take him on for only 2 more seasons.

Those are also teams that could be interested in Vlad Namestnikov. A solid depth winger who can also take some faceoffs.

Other teams that may like Names:

LAK
MIN
CAR
CGY

The Rangers probably have their feelers out there and are waiting on what those teams decide

jets really don't have much space after they resign laine & connor...plus if they had interest in smith I'm sure we would have gladly including him in the trouba deal

 

[RangerBoy]

July 29 for Buchnevich

2019 Salary Arbitration schedule