Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2021 Offseason) - “Simple Jack”, "Will over Skill", "Drury in a Hurry"?

[Lone Ranger]

Maybe it's time to rebuild.

I'll start working on the new fan letter since Gorton's no longer here to write it.

 

[Fitzy]

And that center depth didn't win the Rangers the cup either.

It did not. The 14-15 Rangers went into the playoffs cup favorites, I genuinely don't remember what went wrong, partly because I was coaching youth hockey games while a lot of the Tampa series was showing live.

I do know that MSL had taken a huge step back that year and that Boyle was a serious downgrade from Stralman, but we won the presidents trophy.

 

[jay from jersey]

Kreider and Trouba are already going to be bullshit contracts. Tack on another one and this rebuild Hindenburgs before it reaches its height.

Trouba will be fine. He will just turn 32 in the last year of his deal. He’s still going to be a big mobile minute eater in his last year. That deal is 100% movable, that’s why they had to overpay 1 to1.5. They bought some of him prime UFA years.
Kreider, not so much. Even if he is still and effective player hovering around 25-30 goals and playing strong in front of the net, teams aren’t going to be lining up for 6.5 mill 3rd liner.
Trouba at least plays a position that is always in demand for a player with his skill set. And at 32, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t still be a top notch Defenseman

look at Marc savard returning a 1st at 30 years old. Teams won’t mind that cap hit for a year or 2

 

[CLW]

Zibby was one of the top 5 rangers in CF% in 19-20, top 6 in 18-19 and was bottom half in the team this season.

Machine is right that the Power Play saved Mika's stats this year. At even strength he was objectively poor.

The vets checked out on Quinn. Panarin was going though the motions too but, he is Panarin so he can do Panarin things just like Zib was doing Zib things in the offensive zone. Zib sits quite prettily, he will get paid either by the Rangers or elsewhere. He did make it clear he loves the organization and the city, so obviously he prefers to stay, but that doesn't mean it will be easy to come to terms especially not with the longevity concerns. Maybe a frontloaded contract that tapers off significantly in the later years is one solution.

Also let's hope our kids at the WHC's have good tournaments, that will help clarify their value to the Rangers and the rest of the NHL.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Zibanejad's 5 on 5 numbers this year in every other dimension besides finishing were just bad. And it wasn't the case of this starting off poor and recovering throughout the year...that really only happened with his headline production.

Here is Zibanejad's percentile ranking this season at 5v5 relative to the top 131 centers by minutes played (~4 / team on avg):

CF/60 - 8th percentile
CA/60 - 33rd
SF/60 - 9th
SA/60 - 30th
GF/60 - 81st (as the headline stats confirm the NYR scored a lot when he was on the ice...)
GA/60 - 38th
xGF/60 - 10th
xGA/60 - 44th
SCF/60 - 14th
SCA/60 - 44th
HDCF/60 - 13th
HDCA/60 - 18th
On-Ice Shooting % - 97th (...in large part due to a very high shooting %...though no doubt Zibanejad is a GREAT shooter)


In many cases these numbers represent a significant decline from where he previously was performing. Was the drop off due to COVID? Coaching? Aging? Something else?

A big contract extension for him right now carries significant risk, there's no way around it. If he is making $8-9M for 5-7 years and plays like he did last season, it could throw a huge wrench into the entire rebuild.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I’d like to rehash another letter for the retool of the rebuild....

 

[bobbop]

Bobbop- I see Josi and Ellis have to be protected, but who is the third guy if not Ekholm? Fabbro?

Fabbro

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Zibanejad's 5 on 5 numbers this year in every other dimension besides finishing were just bad. And it wasn't the case of this starting off poor and recovering throughout the year...that really only happened with his headline production.

Here is Zibanejad's percentile ranking this season at 5v5 relative to the top 131 centers by minutes played (~4 / team on avg):

CF/60 - 8th percentile
CA/60 - 33rd
SF/60 - 9th
SA/60 - 30th
GF/60 - 81st (as the headline stats confirm the NYR scored a lot when he was on the ice...)
GA/60 - 38th
xGF/60 - 10th
xGA/60 - 44th
SCF/60 - 14th
SCA/60 - 44th
HDCF/60 - 13th
HDCA/60 - 18th
On-Ice Shooting % - 97th (...in large part due to a very high shooting %...though no doubt Zibanejad is a GREAT shooter)


In many cases these numbers represent a significant decline from where he previously was performing. Was the drop off due to COVID? Coaching? Aging? Something else?

A big contract extension for him right now carries significant risk, there's no way around it. If he is making $8-9M for 5-7 years and plays like he did last season, it could throw a huge wrench into the entire rebuild.

Yeah but his DJing has improved dramatically

 

[RangersFan1994]

Faksa at 55.8% would lead our team in faceoffs and the next would be Colin Blackwell at 48.4%. Get him at the draft please.....

 

[Machinehead]

Trouba will be fine. He will just turn 32 in the last year of his deal. He’s still going to be a big mobile minute eater in his last year. That deal is 100% movable, that’s why the had to overpay 1 to1.5. They bought some of him prime UFA years.
Kreider, not so much. Even if he is still and effective player hovering around 25-30 goals and playing strong in front of the net, teams aren’t going to be lining up for 6.5 mill 3rd liner.
Trouba at least plays a position that is always in demand for a player with his skill set. And at 32, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t still be a top notch Defenseman

look at Marc savard returning a 1st at 30 years old. Teams won’t mind that cap hit for a year or 2

Trouba has a NMC

 

[I Eat Crow]

I'm thinking Mika's ask is 50 million for six years, plus an additional 100k in premium DJ equipment.

I sign him to that offer yesterday if he'd accept it. I think he wants more, though.

 

[Ruggs225]

Why are people still wanting to move trouba?

In case u havent noticed we really need him, and our defense fell apart without him. He is instrumental on our defense, and we have nobody to replace his style.

 

[I Eat Crow]

It did not. The 14-15 Rangers went into the playoffs cup favorites, I genuinely don't remember what went wrong, partly because I was coaching youth hockey games while a lot of the Tampa series was showing live.

I do know that MSL had taken a huge step back that year and that Boyle was a serious downgrade from Stralman, but we won the presidents trophy.

The Rangers did not have a single healthy defenseman by the time they got to the conference finals and Zuccarello almost died.

The Rangers beat Tampa and mop the floor with Chicago in the Cup Finals with a healthy McDonagh and Zuccarello.

 

[Machinehead]

Why are people still wanting to move trouba?

In case u havent noticed we really need him, and our defense fell apart without him. He is instrumental on our defense, and we have nobody to replace his style.

The cap and no other reason. 90% of the posts in these threads are tiptoeing around the stupid f***ing cap.

 

[jay from jersey]

Trouba has a NMC

Not after the 1st 3 years

 

[Machinehead]

Not after the 1st 3 years

I think the ship has sailed on how we're building our team by then.

 

[jay from jersey]

The vets checked out on Quinn. Panarin was going though the motions too but, he is Panarin so he can do Panarin things just like Zib was doing Zib things in the offensive zone. Zib sits quite prettily, he will get paid either by the Rangers or elsewhere. He did make it clear he loves the organization and the city, so obviously he prefers to stay, but that doesn't mean it will be easy to come to terms especially not with the longevity concerns. Maybe a frontloaded contract that tapers off significantly in the later years is one solution.

Also let's hope our kids at the WHC's have good tournaments, that will help clarify their value to the Rangers and the rest of the NHL.

I said the team basically didn’t respond to him anymore. The vets and rookies both. They were playing so uninspired at times. Never came out of the gate like a bullet, never played a full 60 minutes. This I think is one of the main reasons he’s out. The Quinn supporters throughly rebuffed my assessment and praised Quinn for doing an outstanding job, smh.
This is also where the team toughness comes in. If you don’t have a tight knit group of players that are close, and love going into battle together, sometimes when you just go thru the motions you look like a bunch of p***y cats. I think a new coach with his new mandate will help in that department. Also, the more years our young guys play together and grow together will do wonders to build a more cohesive scrappy unit

 

[CLW]

If you don't want to shell out the years for Danault or the assets for Hertl, Paul Stastny would be a great stopgap.

He's gotten great defensively in his old age and is outstanding on faceoffs.

Yes, he's 35, but that's good. That means he signs for something reasonable and then goes away.

People underestimate the good value you can get out of signing mid-30's players. They already got paid and they're not going to sign for 5+ years because they don't have that left.

It's the players about to be mid-30's in the second half of contracts that are the bad ones.

Does this logic apply to Zib too? Signing Zib is a gamble on his health and longevity, but so is trading for Eichel. Danault I have no interest in, too much money for a 2/3C shut down center.

I'm kinda hoping for a playoff disaster for Montreal. The real target is not Danault but Kotkaniemi, who would be a really good fit on the Rangers - a young, big, physical two-way player with good IQ and upside. Now's the time to get him if/when the Habs loose their marbles and make him available, later on when he has outgrown the bambi stage he'll go nowhere. The Habs want Kotkaniemi to be more Chytil (more offense), while the Rangers want Chytil/Strome to be more Kotkaniemi (more allround).

 

[Off Sides]

I think he wants playoff revenue.


I think it means he's looking for a team that can get him playoff revenue.


He's looking for playoff revenue.



Next year's presumed team, given a full year, expected development and a modicum of normalcy is likely a playoff team. I think JD/G and felt that way and Drury knew better than to come out and say it. I think the playoffs next year was basically on schedule for the timeline that JD/G had. Part of that timeline coincides with guys like Rooney, PDG, and Blackwell being replaced by cheaper and younger internal candidates like Barron and possibly Richards and/or Rueschhoff comprising the fourth lines. Rooney and the like were just fillers who allowed the team the flexibility not to rush guys and bought the team some time at a point when this future was hard to see playing out. The same was true for Jack Johnson.

All this is a reason why I find the dismissal of JD/G dubious. Add in that Dolan thinks the team is ready to compete, while Drury says there is no timetable for the playoffs.

This year playoff revenue was not really gate playoff revenue

I can certainly entertain the idea that Dolan was impulsive, yet I'm not sure he was wrong. The team looked like a perimeter team who was not willing to do hockey stuff required to beat teams who do hockey stuff, We can all assign blame wherever yet, GM, president have the ultimate responsibility there I'd think whether it was roster or coaching.

And that is not to say I think they were doing it all wrong, more so I think they attached themselves to the wrong horses. Panarin being the biggest one, he is great, yet not in the way others can replicate. Much like say Gaborik he is great in what he can do, which is not what others can do, yet they all lean toward trying to.

Panarin was 27-28 when signed, they were drafting kids who were 18. It never made much sense unless they were going to build around players also in their prime.

Anyway I know we will not agree on much of this, it's all good. I would not have fired JD and Gorton due to the Islanders or Caps, I would have fired them because this was two separate teams being built, and I do not think that is why Dolan did so. He likely thinks, I paid a lot of money to see those players and this team not compete, and/or get crushed while not even making the playoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

Does this logic apply to Zib too? Signing Zib is a gamble on his health and longevity, but so is trading for Eichel. Danault I have no interest in, too much money for a 2/3C shut down center.

I'm kinda hoping for a playoff disaster for Montreal. The real target is not Danault but Kotkaniemi, who would be a really good fit on the Rangers - a young, big, physical two-way player with good IQ and upside. Now's the time to get him if/when the Habs loose their marbles and make him available, later on when he has outgrown the bambi stage he'll go nowhere. The Habs want Kotkaniemi to be more Chytil (more offense), while the Rangers want Chytil/Strome to be more Kotkaniemi (more allround).

I've expressed very little interest in a Zibanejad extension and less in trading for Eichel.

 

[bobbop]

I'm thinking Mika's ask is 50 million for six years, plus an additional 100k in premium DJ equipment.

That’s probably close and doable. Throw in some of the money in bonus, front-loaded salary and modified MTC over the last half and you have a deal.

 

[bobbop]

I've expressed very little interest in a Zibanejad extension and less in trading for Eichel.

Where are your top two centers coming from? What happened to increased and improved?

 

[bobbop]

Zibanejad's 5 on 5 numbers this year in every other dimension besides finishing were just bad. And it wasn't the case of this starting off poor and recovering throughout the year...that really only happened with his headline production.

Here is Zibanejad's percentile ranking this season at 5v5 relative to the top 131 centers by minutes played (~4 / team on avg):

CF/60 - 8th percentile
CA/60 - 33rd
SF/60 - 9th
SA/60 - 30th
GF/60 - 81st (as the headline stats confirm the NYR scored a lot when he was on the ice...)
GA/60 - 38th
xGF/60 - 10th
xGA/60 - 44th
SCF/60 - 14th
SCA/60 - 44th
HDCF/60 - 13th
HDCA/60 - 18th
On-Ice Shooting % - 97th (...in large part due to a very high shooting %...though no doubt Zibanejad is a GREAT shooter)


In many cases these numbers represent a significant decline from where he previously was performing. Was the drop off due to COVID? Coaching? Aging? Something else?

A big contract extension for him right now carries significant risk, there's no way around it. If he is making $8-9M for 5-7 years and plays like he did last season, it could throw a huge wrench into the entire rebuild.

But that hair!

 

[Fitzy]

You could bargain bin sign Stepan and Stastmy for a season and field the slowest center ice core since the 01 02 red wings...

Edit- can’t forget Anisimov!

 

[Kupo]

Does this logic apply to Zib too? Signing Zib is a gamble on his health and longevity, but so is trading for Eichel. Danault I have no interest in, too much money for a 2/3C shut down center.

I'm kinda hoping for a playoff disaster for Montreal. The real target is not Danault but Kotkaniemi, who would be a really good fit on the Rangers - a young, big, physical two-way player with good IQ and upside. Now's the time to get him if/when the Habs loose their marbles and make him available, later on when he has outgrown the bambi stage he'll go nowhere. The Habs want Kotkaniemi to be more Chytil (more offense), while the Rangers want Chytil/Strome to be more Kotkaniemi (more allround).

Danault isn’t just a shutdown center. He’s been a 45 point center over the last 5 seasons with practically no PP time.

I don’t see the Habs moving KK even if they get swept.