Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2021 Offseason) - “Simple Jack”, "Will over Skill", "Drury in a Hurry"?

[Machinehead]

i assume you mean the Mika with Covid and not the guy averaging over a PPG since he got over it right?

He cheated around the ice playing a video game even after he started scoring.

I'd like to see if a new coach can get him playing again. Either he quit on Quinn or these are long-term effects of the mileage on his body.

 

[jay from jersey]

They really can't afford to wait and see. It's highly unlikely that they'd go into next season without making a decision on him. The time for selling significant players at the deadline is behind us, and we can't let him walk for nothing. The last thing we need is to be pressured into signing him as a UFA. Make the choice this summer. Sign him and trade him.

Yea the Decision has to be made by the deadline next year

 

[Machinehead]

Panarin also spent the whole season just doing one-timers and dangles and Kreider looks like he wants to die all the time, so it may have just been the coaching.

 

[McRanger92]

Panarin also spent the whole season just doing one-timers and dangles and Kreider looks like he wants to die all the time, so it may have just been the coaching.

I still think its possible the veteran players were making business decisions at points this year, knowing management didnt care if they made the playoffs. Not saying its right, but it would explain a lot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Rangers are thinking they might not sign Zibanejad then they’re definitely going to make a big play for Eichel. You need at least one top center. We can’t go back to those days

It doesn't have to be Eichel though.

 

[egelband]

I think it’s safe to say the first six weeks were an aberration. The rest of the season is pretty representative. Streaky for sure and certainly not the fiery leader we want and need. And there’s also lingering injury worries, I guess. But extremely talented. A great number two center. What is the going rate for an elite 2C or a solid 1C? If he takes $7.5m x 5, what’s the consensus? Just wondering where the bar is set. 8x5? Would they do six years?

 

[egelband]

Panarin also spent the whole season just doing one-timers and dangles and Kreider looks like he wants to die all the time, so it may have just been the coaching.

Thought Mika was game, not missing any games despite coming off serious illness. But he definitely was avoiding contact too.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Yea the Decision has to be made by the deadline next year

The decision on Mika needs to happen before the season.
He’s got a nmc so you can’t be stuck not moving him and letting him walk.
This seasons expectations will be set by what we have at center, it’s easier to answer to ownership and say that we have to push a year because Mika wanted a number that would handicap us and then use those assets to build up the middle better. Rather than thinking we’ve got a contender, be in a playoff spot and Mika hasn’t extended and forced to move him at the deadline, and miss out.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Thought Mika was game, not missing any games despite coming off serious illness. But he definitely was avoiding contact too.

He didn't have the strength to do anything early on. He was getting pushed off the puck like he was Howden.

 

[Machinehead]

I still think its possible the veteran players were making business decisions at points this year, knowing management didnt care if they made the playoffs. Not saying its right, but it would explain a lot.

I could see that but then again, Panarin and Kreider won't be negotiating a contract for several years.

I just think there wasn't any accountability for veteran players. That sounds good for them because they're not getting yelled at, but they're also at the age where they know they're playing well, they don't need their confidence at this level stroked, and a bit of adversity with the coach builds rapport.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

In terms of "now" players? Yeah.

We don't know what Buffalo's ask is. If they want guys who can step in and help right now, the Flyers can put together a pretty competitive offer while still warding off Farabee.

Ehh I’m not convinced on Phillys now players being traded that doesn’t include Farabee. Courtier? He’s a UFA after next season. I doubt Nolan Patrick is gonna tip the scales either. Their D also not fantastic to trade from. Prospects York or Forester? Not seeing much there.

 

[Machinehead]

Thought Mika was game, not missing any games despite coming off serious illness. But he definitely was avoiding contact too.

I think he was hurt in addition to the covid, and even when he was better, somewhere in the back of his mind is "if I don't give 110% here, I'm still playing 22 minutes" (and yes, as @McRanger92 said, knowing the goal isn't necessarily the playoffs factors in, that makes the coach's job even more important). That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or a bad teammate. He's human and playing in a league that tests you every night.

 

[GAGLine]

Why can't we just make the decision at the next dealdine?

He'll have less term, but teams offer more at the deadline, so it probably breaks even anyway.

Because trading him for futures would set us back. You think Dolan will be okay with that? If we are in a position to make the playoffs, there's no chance we trade Mika. Maybe we could find a deal that helps us now and long term, but that would be very hard to pull off.

 

[Off Sides]

They really can't afford to wait and see. It's highly unlikely that they'd go into next season without making a decision on him. The time for selling significant players at the deadline is behind us, and we can't let him walk for nothing. The last thing we need is to be pressured into signing him as a UFA. Make the choice this summer. Sign him and trade him.

Tough trade to make on Zbad, not out of the realm of possibilities, yet with a NMC, he is probably going to want to pick his destination at the very least. And that may tie into where he thinks he could get an extension. If not imperative that he negotiates one first. Plus if they have not changes the rules, he can't sign one until I think July 1st.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ehh I’m not convinced on Phillys now players being traded that doesn’t include Farabee. Courtier? He’s a UFA after next season. I doubt Nolan Patrick is gonna tip the scales either. Their D also not fantastic to trade from. Prospects York or Forester? Not seeing much there.

They can dip into the Konecny/Sanheim/Provorov (unlikely) group and tie in someone from the York/Frost/Forester group and a draft pick.

Those teams that have those 2nd contract guys locked in a longer honestly seem like a better fit. We don't really have that player. Our guys are either locked in long term, are a year away from UFA or are on/just getting off of their ELC.

 

[Machinehead]

Because trading him for futures would set us back. You think Dolan will be okay with that? If we are in a position to make the playoffs, there's no chance we trade Mika. Maybe we could find a deal that helps us now and long term, but that would be very hard to pull off.

If we trade him, it's going to be for futures. Nobody is giving us a better center unless we pull off another miracle trade like the one that got us Zibanejad in the first place.

If we decide we want to keep him for a run, we'll just extend him.

Drury is not going to let Dolan self-rent Zibanejad to lose in the second round.

There's no urgency to make a decision right now.

 

[Fitzy]

If we trade him, it's going to be for futures. Nobody is giving us a better center unless we pull off another miracle trade like the one that got us Zibanejad in the first place.

If we decide we want to keep him for a run, we'll just extend him.

Drury is not going to let Dolan self-rent Zibanejad to lose in the second round.

There's no urgency to make a decision right now.

Well, it could be a Marian Gaborik type trade where we get several guys who are current NHL players, just not at the current level of the guy we are dealing.

Something like Zibanejad at 50% retained for Jost, Timmins, Newhook (That would be quite the haul)

Also- I'm almost certain that this offseason is the right time. If Zibby has a poor season, his value drops at the deadline, and probably would be below what it would be for a full season at 50% anyways. A 1C to a contender for effectively 2.75 million is... mad value.

If he has a great season, NYR have to pay even more to lock him up.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If we trade him, it's going to be for futures. Nobody is giving us a better center unless we pull off another miracle trade like the one that got us Zibanejad in the first place.

If we decide we want to keep him for a run, we'll just extend him.

Drury is not going to let Dolan self-rent Zibanejad to lose in the second round.

There's no urgency to make a decision right now.

There is if you can get him signed for cheaper than you will a year from now.

But Zibanejad and his peeps also know that he can basically set his own price with a big year next season. He has every reason to hold off on signing and I expect him to have a huge year in 2021-22.

 

[egelband]

I think he was hurt in addition to the covid, and even when he was better, somewhere in the back of his mind is "if I don't give 110% here, I'm still playing 22 minutes" (and yes, as @McRanger92 said, knowing the goal isn't necessarily the playoffs factors in, that makes the coach's job even more important). That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or a bad teammate. He's human and playing in a league that tests you every night.

I have no issue with Mika. Very few players are perfect. Mika is a great scorer and a great play driver and also really good on special teams.
But if I’m building a roster and a team, I’m “offsetting” Mika’s quiet personality with a more rah-rah type. That’s all. The team in general just needs some more balance, in that respect.

 

[Off Sides]

Why can't we just make the decision at the next dealdine?

He'll have less term, but teams offer more at the deadline, so it probably breaks even anyway.

I think that is what it will probably come down to, unless he is willing to bend versus what he could get on the open market to sign with the Rangers.

I'm not even sure how the Rangers would approach a Zbad trade. Like if they ask him if he's willing he then knows he is not really in their A plan, from there why would he budge on any contract negotiation should a trade fall though.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

It's such a dumb HFBoards-y thing that no one talks about it, but I definitely feel like the Eichel-Zibanejad three way trade can happen.

 

[GAGLine]

If we trade him, it's going to be for futures.

Probably, but making that deal in the offseason enables us to make other deals to replace him. If we're in a playoff spot at the deadline next year, do you honestly believe we're going to trade Zib for futures? Who are we bringing in at the deadline to replace him?

Dolan isn't going to accept a deadline sell off, and if we are in a playoff spot, neither are the players.

 

[Machinehead]

There is if you can get him signed for cheaper than you will a year from now.

But Zibanejad and his peeps also know that he can basically set his own price with a big year next season. He has every reason to hold off on signing and I expect him to have a huge year in 2021-22.

Realistically, how much cheaper? Probably a number that's still not worth it if we go into next year and "uh oh, Zibanejad stinks again!"

 

[Machinehead]

Probably, but making that deal in the offseason enables us to make other deals to replace him. If we're in a playoff spot at the deadline next year, do you honestly believe we're going to trade Zib for futures? Who are we bringing in at the deadline to replace him?

Dolan isn't going to accept a deadline sell off, and if we are in a playoff spot, neither are the players.

It's not necessarily a sell-off. You just don't self-rent to squeeze into the playoffs. I would hope the guy we just hired to be GM knows that.

 

[Machinehead]

Well, it could be a Marian Gaborik type trade where we get several guys who are current NHL players, just not at the current level of the guy we are dealing.

Something like Zibanejad at 50% retained for Jost, Timmins, Newhook (That would be quite the haul)

Also- I'm almost certain that this offseason is the right time. If Zibby has a poor season, his value drops at the deadline, and probably would be below what it would be for a full season at 50% anyways. A 1C to a contender for effectively 2.75 million is... mad value.

If he has a great season, NYR have to pay even more to lock him up.

But I think the worst outcome, and the one I'm willing to take a smaller loss to avoid, is that you extend him $7m x 8 (which would be a huge discount!) and this is what he is.