Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2019/2020) - Tick Tock

[redwhiteandblue]

I think it’s pretty obvious he’s sending a message to the Jets. Wasn’t a malicious tone or anything but the message is clear I think.

 

[Chaels Arms]

This is the NHL in 2019. The league is run by young players now. They're all on social media. They're all friends. They're all talking to each other. They're all hanging out together. This isn't the NHL in the 70's where Bobby Clarke is going to call up a young player and say "hey, rook, take the 20k they're offering you and get into camp, or else."

I've listened to almost 200 interviews with various current and former NHL'ers on Spittin Chiclets. Say what you want about Barstool, I don't really care, but when these guys go on Chiclets it's the most straightforward and honest interviews you will ever hear with NHL personnel. And do you know one common theme you can take away whenever you hear current NHL players getting interviewed? Whether it's Hall, Hayes, MAF, Mackinnon, etc.? They all want to see other get PAID. They love seeing their colleagues get PAID. That's how it should be.

Does anyone here think Willie Nylander was ostracized when he joined the team last season? Who in that lockerroom of any importance is going to say something to him? John Tavares coming off a 7 year, 11 million dollar contract? Auston Matthews at 5 years, 11.6 mil? Mitch Marner who knows he's going to be looking for his own big payday in under 12 months?

These guys have short careers. It can end at any time. By the time many of these players are 35 there won't be an owner in the league that even wants to talk to them. They need to get every last dollar they can get and they need to get it right now. I'll never hate on another man trying to get paid.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

This is the NHL in 2019. The league is run by young players now. They're all on social media. They're all friends. They're all talking to each other. They're all hanging out together. This isn't the NHL in the 70's where Bobby Clarke is going to call up a young player and say "hey, rook, take the 20k they're offering you and get into camp, or else."

I've listened to almost 200 interviews with various current and former NHL'ers on Spittin Chiclets. Say what you want about Barstool, I don't really care, but when these guys go on Chiclets it's the most straightforward and honest interviews you will ever hear with NHL personnel. And do you know one common theme you can take away whenever you hear current NHL players getting interviewed? Whether it's Hall, Hayes, MAF, Mackinnon, etc.? They all want to see other get PAID. They love seeing their colleagues get PAID. That's how it should be.

Does anyone here think Willie Nylander was ostracized when he joined the team last season? Who in that lockerroom of any importance is going to say something to him? John Tavares coming off a 7 year, 11 million dollar contract? Auston Matthews at 5 years, 11.6 mil? Mitch Marner who knows he's going to be looking for his own big payday in under 12 months?

These guys have short careers. It can end at any time. By the time many of these players are 35 there won't be an owner in the league that even wants to talk to them. They need to get every last dollar they can get and they need to get it right now. I'll never hate on another man trying to get paid.

I agree with your points about Chiclets, you won’t find better quality, insight and candid knowledge on what’s really happening. They’re comfortable with those guys and it’s like sitting in the locker room taping your sticks and tying your skates. It’s truly great, especially if you love hockey.

As far as the getting paid point, yeah hockey players are one of a kind. They’re very selfless people. They shouldn’t be idiots though. I knew that Crosby interview would kinda sway me on him, still hate the guy as a rival but he’s a pretty good dude who’s a bit of a cry baby and very competitive. Either way he made the point, like RA said, that you have to take less to keep it together and it doesn’t work when everyone’s not taking less. The thing is too you know these guys listen so will that message from the horses mouth resonate?

In all honesty, what the hell is wrong with these guys? You don’t have to be a genius to see that after adding Tavares and AM getting paid and Marner looming and then Nylander holding out all while having considerable pieces to pay as part of your depth. I get getting paid, I’m a huge believer in these guys taking advantage of their pay days (any athletes, especially NFL), but are these guys stupid? Marner is clearly asking for north of $12 and he clearly knows more guys are about to get paid. This is all on the players IMO. And it’s like they don’t even realize that getting JT was almost hinging on the fact that the team was planning on having considerably better deals for at least the next 2-3 maybe 4 years and then could ship someone out when the time came. They’re just dismantling their team salary cap and ruining this little window they have.

Not to mention I think the players are a little out of their element too. Demanding top dollar before they even get to UFA.

 

[nyr2k2]

A/60 isn't really a great way of looking at it in this context. His minutes went up with the Rangers, but his career average before last season was ~24 assists per 82 and last year with the Rangers it was 19 per 82.

...right. That's borne out in the numbers I provided.

His career A/82 is 23. With us, it was 19.5.
His career G/82 is 15. With us, it was 23.5.

And that was my point. His assist rate may have been down, but not nearly to the extent that his goal scoring rate was up (due to his 17%+ SH%, 22.5% with us).

The rate stats are the better way to look at it, but even if you use per 82 stats it's the same story.

 

[MrPodz]

Essentially, the three scenarios that happen are the kids are ready to take the role and we get some depth ,use strome or names to fill the 2c role, or find an out of house replacement, be it through trade or stop gaps. I think we all are going to drive ourselves crazy until we finally see the games and know how much work each player has done over the summer.

 

[Roo Returns]

Strome's assist rate with the Rangers was more or less where its been the last few seasons.

2 points in the first 18 games (his time in EDM) impacted his overall production. Still he played at a 43 point pace with the Rangers which would have been his best offensive output since his sophomore season.

Hes also most likely going to lose his spot on the PP.

Not until at least December unless Kakko is converted to center and wins draws.

If they're running a first PP unit of Ziba/Panarin/Kreider/Trouba/Buch they're not going to run one of Kakko/Chytil/Kravstov/Fox/TDA. Someone needs to take faceoffs on that second unit and be defensively responsible.

 

[SA16]

Not until at least December unless Kakko is converted to center and wins draws.

If they're running a first PP unit of Ziba/Panarin/Kreider/Trouba/Buch they're not going to run one of Kakko/Chytil/Kravstov/Fox/TDA. Someone needs to take faceoffs on that second unit and be defensively responsible.

He's very bad on faceoffs though so I am not sure having him out to take faceoffs serves much of a purpose.

 

[Roo Returns]

He's very bad on faceoffs though so I am not sure having him out to take faceoffs serves much of a purpose.

But he's done it which the other kids haven't. Remember, half the time unit two will get on the ice as an active switch. Who is playing C on that second PP unit?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A/60 isn't really a great way of looking at it in this context. His minutes went up with the Rangers, but his career average before last season was ~24 assists per 82 and last year with the Rangers it was 19 per 82.

Strome's TOI didn't really get a bump until after the ASB (after 30ish games with the NYR, his ATOI was 14:28 pre ASB, compared to 17+ after) and coincidentally, his numbers shot up as well (22 in 34 games Post ASB, his 10 assists in time time frame averages to around 24 over 82.) His average of 24 pre 2018-19 includes his outlier sophomore season (33, which he hasn't come close to matching.) His A/82 once his ice time went up actually eclipses his career averages sans sophomore season (which is to be expected with more ice time, but it's more or less in line with what he's always done per 60.)

To his credit, his most common line mates 5v5 were Fast and Namesnikov (I believe Chytil and Howden were 3 and 4, none of them lit it up on the score sheet last year.) However, his numbers were clearly influenced by his elevated shooting percentage (22.5 with the NYR is almost DOUBLE his career high.) A drop down to the norm+ a most likely reduced role on the PP will almost certainly cause his numbers over an 82 game season to fall more into the 25-30 point range, unless of course he is thrusted into that 2C role because one of the other kids couldn't grab it, and even then he may still have a ton of trouble replicating the raw production of last season points wise.

 

[SA16]

But he's done it which the other kids haven't. Remember, half the time unit two will get on the ice as an active switch. Who is playing C on that second PP unit?

The obvious solution is for Zibanejad to just play the entire PP. If not Chytil can play Center there considering they hope he is the C2 anyway.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not until at least December unless Kakko is converted to center and wins draws.

If they're running a first PP unit of Ziba/Panarin/Kreider/Trouba/Buch they're not going to run one of Kakko/Chytil/Kravstov/Fox/TDA. Someone needs to take faceoffs on that second unit and be defensively responsible.

Chytil can take them.

They're not going to put Strome on the PP because he's slightly better at FO's.

 

[Roo Returns]

I think it’s pretty obvious he’s sending a message to the Jets. Wasn’t a malicious tone or anything but the message is clear I think.

Winnipeg's situation got really weird in only two seasons. They're in danger of becoming one of those "pretty darn good but only won divisions" group that teams like Ottawa and the Sharks in the late 90s/early 2000s were.

If they get off to a slow start or have a roller coaster season, don't be surprised if there's a coaching change.

 

[Fitzy]

This is the NHL in 2019. The league is run by young players now. They're all on social media. They're all friends. They're all talking to each other. They're all hanging out together. This isn't the NHL in the 70's where Bobby Clarke is going to call up a young player and say "hey, rook, take the 20k they're offering you and get into camp, or else."

I've listened to almost 200 interviews with various current and former NHL'ers on Spittin Chiclets. Say what you want about Barstool, I don't really care, but when these guys go on Chiclets it's the most straightforward and honest interviews you will ever hear with NHL personnel. And do you know one common theme you can take away whenever you hear current NHL players getting interviewed? Whether it's Hall, Hayes, MAF, Mackinnon, etc.? They all want to see other get PAID. They love seeing their colleagues get PAID. That's how it should be.

Does anyone here think Willie Nylander was ostracized when he joined the team last season? Who in that lockerroom of any importance is going to say something to him? John Tavares coming off a 7 year, 11 million dollar contract? Auston Matthews at 5 years, 11.6 mil? Mitch Marner who knows he's going to be looking for his own big payday in under 12 months?

These guys have short careers. It can end at any time. By the time many of these players are 35 there won't be an owner in the league that even wants to talk to them. They need to get every last dollar they can get and they need to get it right now. I'll never hate on another man trying to get paid.

If we're going that direction, the league needs to start doing away with mandatory guaranteed contracts and look more like the NFL's structure.

 

[Roo Returns]

Chytil can take them.

They're not going to put Strome on the PP because he's slightly better at FO's.

It's also about not exposing kids and having a vet with them. DQ is not running a unit with Chytil as a 'veteran" with potentially three rookies.

 

[Roo Returns]

The obvious solution is for Zibanejad to just play the entire PP. If not Chytil can play Center there considering they hope he is the C2 anyway.

Ziba also PKs, plays in the final five minutes, etc. DQ won't have him do that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's also about not exposing kids and having a vet with them. DQ is not running a unit with Chytil as a 'veteran" with potentially three rookies.

I don't think you can really get "exposed" on the PP. At least not on the regular when you're at an advantage like that.


Or if you aren't comfortable with that, mix up the units. We have enough fire power to run 2 really, really good units.

 

[Roo Returns]

I don't think you can really get "exposed" on the PP. At least not on the regular when you're at an advantage like that.


Or if you aren't comfortable with that, mix up the units. We have enough fire power to run 2 really, really good units.

They do but it's all based on logic and what DQ did in his first year. Ziba is the #1C and will play with Panarin who just got signed to a massive deal who will both play with Trouba who they also signed to a massive deal and is the 1D. Kreider has done the screening. So that leaves one spot and it's not going to a rookie right away. Buch.

 

[SA16]

Ziba also PKs, plays in the final five minutes, etc. DQ won't have him do that.

Ok so then take him off the PK and let the more defensive guys do that (Andersson/Howden/Strome whatever) and have our best center play in the more offensive role.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Zibanejad sucks at killing penalties and shouldn't be doing it.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Winnipeg's situation got really weird in only two seasons. They're in danger of becoming one of those "pretty darn good but only won divisions" group that teams like Ottawa and the Sharks in the late 90s/early 2000s were.

If they get off to a slow start or have a roller coaster season, don't be surprised if there's a coaching change.

Yeah for me I’m keeping a close eye on Winnipeg this year. I’m certainly not knocking Laine for being in this position as an RFA, clearly having world class ability, and seeing a new trend in contracts and waiting for dominoes to fall, I get going back home and saying ”hey I’ll be here working out and skating and here’s what we’re looking for right now.” But things have gotten weird there a bit and really outside of these last two years where they’ve come on more so but fallen short it’s hard to say where they’re going. I could see them missing the playoffs. I like Scheifle though so I hope he does well.

 

[egelband]

But it was never even a consideration. He played well for the Rangers and management liked him.

We don't really know that for sure but I would echo your point that it's not just contract and cap that decide how the team proceeds. The coach also has a say. Which is why guys like Staal remain with the team despite fan protest. You all know this, I'm not pretending this is news. But I don't see it mentioned much so figured I would highlight your point.

 

[egelband]

He's very bad on faceoffs though so I am not sure having him out to take faceoffs serves much of a purpose.

Faceoffs are one of the few skills that can be improved greatly over a players career. Kevin Hayes was so bad his first couple seasons. For example.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

This whole RFA thing is like Machado/Harper on steroids. So many stars playing a chess game waiting for the bar to be set.

 

[NYR94]

This whole RFA thing is like Machado/Harper on steroids. So many stars playing a chess game waiting for the bar to be set.

I keep making the mistake of checking out the Marner thread on the trade board but I have to tap out after reading just a few posts. The league should make the deadline to sign RFAs the beginning of the season instead of whatever it was last year when Nylander finally signed.

 

[bobbop]

Winnipeg's situation got really weird in only two seasons. They're in danger of becoming one of those "pretty darn good but only won divisions" group that teams like Ottawa and the Sharks in the late 90s/early 2000s were.

If they get off to a slow start or have a roller coaster season, don't be surprised if there's a coaching change.

I agree but I’d also rate Winnipeg as the team most likely to have a GM change this year.