Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2019/2020) - Tick Tock

[NYRFANMANI]

Is it me or does it feel like these living up to the entitled generation stereotype?

Kinda torn on that, but it wouldn't be a "generational" issue, ti would simply be as always entitled individual/family (or middleman agent).

I rather see a worrisome salary inflation, producing lots of bad contract. Like hype is factoring way too much into contracts now. Laine looking at what, 11 million lmao? Like pure skill wise, his offence is an A, his defense is idk C to D, athleticism is a B- or C and then there is character and leadership, too young to tell (C or D). I'd love to bridge a guy like that 2x6 or 2x7. But noooo, it has to be a 8x11 or something maniacal like that. Marner for example has waaay more leverage than Laine. It makes me fear the RFAs in three years, I really hope we can sign Krava and Kappa more easily than the other clubs with their respective elite RFAs.

 

[Tawnos]

The word "entitled" most often implies that a person doesn't have a good reason to be that way... but if someone is acting that way after reaching the pinnacle of their profession at 18 years old, I feel like some of that sense of entitlement is justified.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The word "entitled" most often implies that a person doesn't have a good reason to be that way... but if someone is acting that way after reaching the pinnacle of their profession at 18 years old, I feel like some of that sense of entitlement is justified.

That's a rough premise. In most professions it's just impossible to get there at 18 years old. There are certain metrics we can use to determine if someone actually is acting entitled in the justified or unjustified way. If Laine is asking 11m/y, he is, Marner isn't.

I don't see any proof that Laine or 99.9% of hockey players for that matter were at the pinnacle of this sport at 18. Hasek is the pinnacle of goaliedom, ain't no 18 year old getting there. Same goes for so many others. Malkin, Crosby, Ovi and McJesus, pretty much the only players that come to my mind, being close to the pinnacle at 18 and they got payed accordingly.


PS: too bad the GS vs fiat discussion only lasted 7 posts

 

[Tawnos]

That's a rough premise. In most professions it's just impossible to get there at 18 years old. There are certain metrics we can use to determine if someone actually is acting entitled in the justified or unjustified way. If Laine is asking 11m/y, he is, Marner isn't.

I don't see any proof that Laine or 99.9% of hockey players for that matter were at the pinnacle of this sport at 18. Hasek is the pinnacle of goaliedom, ain't no 18 year old getting there. Same goes for so many others. Malkin, Crosby, Ovi and McJesus, pretty much the only players that come to my mind, being close to the pinnacle at 18 and they got payed accordingly.


PS: too bad the GS vs fiat discussion only lasted 7 posts

I don't think you understand what I meant by pinnacle of the profession. Playing in the NHL is the pinnacle of professional hockey. Yes, relative within the NHL, there are players who are better than others, but the NHL represents the best 1% of hockey players in the entire world (broad stroke... obviously there are some players in Europe that are better than some players in the NHL... just talking overall).

Most hockey players don't get to play at this level at 18. Laine did, AND he's played at a high level despite his youth even during a down year like last year. We can get into the nuances of his play with metrics and such, particularly last year, but bottom line is that he was still a top-10 goal scorer in the 3 years he's been in the league. Show me a 21-year old kid in that situation who ISN'T entitled, and I'll show you a very special personality. And like I said, I feel like it's somewhat justified.

PS: I didn't really want to have that conversation. I was being sarcastic in my response to Ola.

 

[egelband]

Is it me or does it feel like these living up to the entitled generation stereotype?

I hear ya. But I also think the article/blurb is pitched that way. No idea what this guy's really all about.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

As far as Strome goes, someone just mentioned him again, I really think he’s the perfect tweener center for this team this year.

Good pedigree as a top pick, responded well after a change of scenery, can flex between the 2nd and 3rd line, little commitment currently. He doesn’t have many games where he stands out head and shoulders above everyone, if really at all, but you don’t see him stand out in bad ways. Kinda perfect to insulate that middle six IMO.

And on that note, the team needs to not fool themselves about what kind of season this is. Use Strome at 2C to start, give Fil the 3C and tell him we’re going to go 20 games with you here to give you a shot to really mold your game at the center ice position. Hopefully when that starts coming along, simply swap them and give Fil more responsibility.

Really feels like a pretty easy win for the Rangers this year. Not like they need a better 2C to make a Cup run. Also don’t hate that he’s a more veteran player now but still young. He’s had a tough time in the league but managed to stick. I’m guessing he’s got some valuable locker room presence in that regard.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

As far as Strome goes, someone just mentioned him again, I really think he’s the perfect tweener center for this team this year.

Good pedigree as a top pick, responded well after a change of scenery, can flex between the 2nd and 3rd line, little commitment currently. He doesn’t have many games where he stands out head and shoulders above everyone, if really at all, but you don’t see him stand out in bad ways. Kinda perfect to insulate that middle six IMO.

And on that note, the team needs to not fool themselves about what kind of season this is. Use Strome at 2C to start, give Fil the 3C and tell him we’re going to go 20 games with you here to give you a shot to really mold your game at the center ice position. Hopefully when that starts coming along, simply swap them and give Fil more responsibility.

Really feels like a pretty easy win for the Rangers this year. Not like they need a better 2C to make a Cup run. Also don’t hate that he’s a more veteran player now but still young. He’s had a tough time in the league but managed to stick. I’m guessing he’s got some valuable locker room presence in that regard.

Agree with all of this, but for the bolded. Let training camp dictate who plays where; if Chytil wins the 2C, let him take it. Then, adjust in season as needed.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Agree with all of this, but for the bolded. Let training camp dictate who plays where; if Chytil wins the 2C, let him take it. Then, adjust in season as needed.

Well absolutely but I just anticipate that Chytil has the talent to be a good 2C in this league and he has enough experience to try the move, but I think it might take him a while to piece it all together.

 

[nyr2k2]

Strome's shooting percentage will fall this year. I hope everyone understands that. Doesn't mean he's not a decent little player, but he's not going to continue to shoot at such a high rate.

 

[Avery16]

Carolina signs Priskie:

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Which is absolutely fine. That would only be an issue if this team was competing for a Cup. I don’t think Gorton is going to fool himself it is either.

In my opinion he’s perfect for this team this year. I’d say he’s a bit more than “a little nice player” too. How many games can you honestly say he stood out and was anything close to a liability. I think on most teams he’s a pretty darn good 3C. If he can keep things shored up like he has since coming to New York, regardless of shooting%, I think he cements himself as one of the better 3Cs in the league.

I’m sure some sort of fancy stats would prove me wrong though.

Guys gotta be elated he’s not on the Isle or up in Edmonton anymore.

 

[Tawnos]

Strome's shooting percentage will fall this year. I hope everyone understands that. Doesn't mean he's not a decent little player, but he's not going to continue to shoot at such a high rate.

He won't... but his assist rate with the last year was also down compared to his assist rate prior to last season. His offensive output overall was pretty normal.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Strome's assist rate with the Rangers was more or less where its been the last few seasons.

2 points in the first 18 games (his time in EDM) impacted his overall production. Still he played at a 43 point pace with the Rangers which would have been his best offensive output since his sophomore season.

Hes also most likely going to lose his spot on the PP.

 

[nyr2k2]

He won't... but his assist rate with the last year was also down compared to his assist rate prior to last season. His offensive output overall was pretty normal.

Really? His A/60 with us was .9, and in previous years it had been 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.6 and 1.2. 1.6 was his outlier year. Meanwhile his G/60 was 1.1, previously .8, .6, .4, .8, .7. So his goal rate was far more out of whack than his assist rate. Reflected in his P/60 of 2.0, previously 1.6, 1.8, 1.5, 2.4 and 1.9. I think he's much more likely to be the guy who scores 1.5-1.8 P/60 than the guy who scored at 2.0 P/60 for us. And probably closer to 1.5 than 1.8.

 

[bobbop]

The only interest I have in Patrick Laine is that he stays in Finland long enough to miss opening night in New York.

 

[SA16]

Strome will score 10 or fewer goals this year provided that he does not completely change his game.

 

[Irishguy42]

The only interest I have in Patrick Laine is that he stays in Finland long enough to miss opening night in New York.

That's fine. Still ain't gonna change the fact that Pionk is going to turnstile Trouba and score the GWG

 

[Kupo]

Strome will score 10 or fewer goals this year provided that he does not completely change his game.

I predict 14 G. 24 A. 72 Points.

Come At Me Bro.

 

[kovazub94]

He's just conveying to Winnipeg that he's in no hurry. He's creating more leverage for himself. I would bet he is champing at the bit to get signed.

Anyway, "entitled" professional athletes have existed forever.

Smug tone of that tweet is bothering. We understand the business aspect and in contract negotiations Laine does needs to protect his interests but stating publicly that he’ll fine missing the training camp and potentially more, and not being with the team... Bad optics that will not help make Jets FO negotiate in good faith or ease on a hard stand.

 

[nyr2k2]

Smug tone of that tweet is bothering. We understand the business aspect and in contract negotiations Laine does needs to protect his interests but stating publicly that he’ll fine missing the training camp and potentially more, and not being with the team... Bad optics that will not help make Jets FO negotiate in good faith or ease on a hard stand.

That's the thing, though, you can't really detect tone in a tweet. Was he truly being smug? Was he joking? Was he being serious, but innocent in his intentions? You can't tell. I can envision a scenario where he's giving an interview and being just pleasant, saying yeah, I have no news, I will wait and see, I'm content waiting here in my homeland, it's beautiful here right now. The tweet is intentionally meant to inflame with the text they put in bold. The tweet doesn't even link to the rest of the quote or the interview. It's all really poorly done, IMO, which is why I'm not batting an eye.

 

[Avery16]

I think we can take a couple things from the Rangers’ reported interest in Ben Hutton:

Decision to not QO Claesson had more to do with their appraisal of him than of the rest of the D squad.

The Rangers don’t think Smith is all so versatile, more likely just can’t move him. If we sign Hutton, Smith is in Hartford unless he wins a job as 13F or 4LW.

 

[Roo Returns]

The buyout talk surrounding Strome was simply based on money. He didn't turn 26 until July 11th, which means his buyout would be as a 25 yo and only 1/3rd instead of 2/3rds. The caps hits were minimal.

Once July 1st hit though, that ship sailed, since he doesn't make enough to qualify for a buyout within the 2nd window.

But it was never even a consideration. He played well for the Rangers and management liked him.

 

[Fitzy]

Strome's shooting percentage will fall this year. I hope everyone understands that. Doesn't mean he's not a decent little player, but he's not going to continue to shoot at such a high rate.

The thing I like about Strome and Namestnikov for this year is that they can play up and down the lineup, anywhere from line 2 to line 4, and aren't a defensive liability.

If certain rookies or players are struggling for a bit, that gives us better flexibility in drawing up new lines, and in my view is much better than seeing Fast/Lemieux type players in the top 6.

 

[Tawnos]

Really? His A/60 with us was .9, and in previous years it had been 1.0, 1.0, 1.1, 1.6 and 1.2. 1.6 was his outlier year. Meanwhile his G/60 was 1.1, previously .8, .6, .4, .8, .7. So his goal rate was far more out of whack than his assist rate. Reflected in his P/60 of 2.0, previously 1.6, 1.8, 1.5, 2.4 and 1.9. I think he's much more likely to be the guy who scores 1.5-1.8 P/60 than the guy who scored at 2.0 P/60 for us. And probably closer to 1.5 than 1.8.

A/60 isn't really a great way of looking at it in this context. His minutes went up with the Rangers, but his career average before last season was ~24 assists per 82 and last year with the Rangers it was 19 per 82.

 

[kovazub94]

That's the thing, though, you can't really detect tone in a tweet. Was he truly being smug? Was he joking? Was he being serious, but innocent in his intentions? You can't tell. I can envision a scenario where he's giving an interview and being just pleasant, saying yeah, I have no news, I will wait and see, I'm content waiting here in my homeland, it's beautiful here right now. The tweet is intentionally meant to inflame with the text they put in bold. The tweet doesn't even link to the rest of the quote or the interview. It's all really poorly done, IMO, which is why I'm not batting an eye.

You could be right and the publishing source misrepresented the tone to get clicks (very possible), or just an innocent Finnish humor to finish (pun intended) the quote.