Salary Cap: Roster Building | Contract Charts 1st Post | See You On The Dark Side Of The Moon

[Riptide]

I'm probably saying the same thing over and over again, but let me try to lay out my concerns overall and what I would have liked JR to do.

Going into the off season it seemed pretty clear to most around here that Bonino was going to price himself out and Cullen was going to retire. With that in mind, many to most of us expected JR to make a move either at the draft or through middle of July.

As time has passed, it appears that many posters have just moved the goal posts and are trusting JR when he says he has targets he could get today. Without knowing the list of available players, I can't say whether he's right or not, but I'm a bit skeptical. Of course, I complained about Fleury half of last year and ended up being wrong, so it's reasonable to trust JR and probably fair to call me a little negative.

It was a gamble and maybe a smart gamble to wait on Cullen, but I was pretty clear all summer that Cullen wasn't coming back. Of course, I thought he was going to retire, so it's not like I was totally right.

If I were the GM, I would have given Cullen a shorter time frame to decide. I get that Cullen earned the right to take his time, but the Pens frankly didn't have time to wait this summer. Last year we had Bonino and Fehr around, so there was no risk to wait on Cullen. This year, the risk outweighed the reward IMO. Therefore, I would have pushed hard for Moore or traded for a center rather than Reaves. I know the Reaves thing was a priority, but I don't have to agree with the priority and I don't.

If you had pushed him, he would have said no. And given that Moore (the only guy I liked for the #4C role) signed on July 1st, giving him a dead line of mid July would have been meaningless.

One of the issues is we have so little cap space. Which means we couldn't afford to sign Moore and Cullen had he decided to come back here and still find a #3C. We have ~3.3m. Spending 2m of that on a pair of 4th line centers while we have a hole at #3C can't happen. I get that Rowney doesn't exactly inspire confidence given that we've had one of the best #4Cs ever the past two years... but for the most part he should be fine in that role. Certainly not near Cullen's level, but good enough not to suck - at least for now. The almost 400k in cap savings between Rowney and Moore will allow us to get someone with a cap hit of ~1.5m or so come the TD (more actually if someone goes the other way).

As for 3C, I think it makes sense to give your best offer for Duchene and then move on. Waiting it out is a bigger gamble, in my estimation, than the hopes of getting Sakic to come down to your price. You can always circle back later on if he gets desperate. I would have liked to see what Bonino's ask was from the Pens, but I'm not opposed to the term if you could get the cap hit under 4MM and without a restrictive NTC. IF you decide to move on from him, I think you need a plan in place to replace him and I'd like to see that plan acted on before the season starts.

The reason for that timeline is because of the importance of limiting Sid and Geno's ice time in the early parts of the season. I want them playing closer to 18 minutes a night. You can do that when you have Bonino and Cullen. You can't do that with Rowney, McClement, Blueger, Dea.

So if there's a deal for W. Karlsson out there today, make the deal. If it's Sheahan, ugh, I'll think about it if it's cheap enough. You can always open up cap space for a better center later on if you need to.

Some of my view is impatience, but I think some of it is being smart. You don't dick around with the center position and you need a plan in place for properly utilizing your 2 most important players.

I don't think we're waiting for Duchene. We might be, but my personal opinion is that we'll be going after someone a lot lower down on the chart. I just think that JR feels the prices are high (no surprise) and that if he's going to pay a high price for a depth player, that there's little reason to do it in late August when he can do the same thing in Oct, and hope that something changes for the better in the meantime (price comes down, better players become available, etc). I know we're impatient (myself included), but making a hasty move probably isn't the best thing here. Games do not start for another 6 weeks, and while this certainly isn't the ideal way to build a roster, I think JR who's been a very straight shooter in how transparent he's been has earned the right for us to trust him on this matter - at least for a little while.

I agree with you on trying to limit Crosby and Malkin's minutes, but again, there's no games for 6 weeks. Still lots of time to sort things out.

 

[ColePens]

Somehow he had a huge impact with Tampa in their series against us in 2016.

Also, 2.25 mil is not three million, and who knows what he signs with us for versus Jersey.

That's not how this works. He signed the contract. Period. You don't get to play "what was the Pens discount code?"

Capfriendly is reporting 2.75 cap hit. Is that wrong? The discussion is - Boyle at 2.75 + the 2 years he gets. That's what you get to choose if you want or not. And for me - hell no! I do not want to give him that money. Period. He's a 4C at best on this team AND he doesn't fit our identity.

Can he help other teams? Sure. That 2 year deal...NO. No way. Anyone who wants that better have a damn good explanation.

 

[Shady Machine]

I did address some of the things that you wrote, I guess you didn't read what I had to say. Why would the Pens walk away from Cullen when he contributed what he did to the past 2 Cup runs. Telling him to make a decision before July 1st because we don't have Bonino and Fehr locked up isn't how I would have handled things. Cullen deserved the same opportunity that was given to him the year prior to take his time and make the right decision for he and his family. For his potential price tag and style of play he brought to the Pens, there were no FA centres that came close to the value he potentially provided.

And I know you're just critiquing Rutherford's 3C plan but with every day that passes you continue to repeat and complain about the fact that he's still yet to fill that hole. At some point wouldn't it make sense to complain about something else?

And as far as whether any of Rowney, McClement, Blueger, or Dea can limit Sid and Geno's minutes an improbable outcome is still a possible outcome. We have seen on numerous occasions over the past couple of seasons that the young guys can come up and be plugged into Sullivan's system and have success with the big club. So who knows?

To be candid, it's the only thing I have to complain about (that and Reaves but that's tied into the center discussion as I liked Sunny). I love the rest of the roster. I guess I could and maybe should, just stop bringing it up.

I'm not saying young players can't surprise, I'm just saying it's unlikely, particularly at 3C. I'm totally fine with any of those guys battling it out for 4C and I'm okay with them as injury replacements. We will need them this year. I just don't want to HAVE to rely on 1 to play better than expected.

Anyway, you get my perspective.

 

[ColePens]

If I KNEW that Cullen wasn't going to sign on July 1st, then I would have signed Moore. But that was anything but known, and Cullen was more than worth the risk.

Same here. IF Cullen said he wasn't coming back to Pittsburgh, i would have chosen Moore as a target on 7/1. He would have fit well.

But the right move was to wait for Cully. While the bounces went our way in the playoffs (most definitely they did), I can safely say the bounces have not gone our way this offseason. We didn't get discounts, any player wanting to be on this team, no magical free prospect, etc.

But even when the bounces aren't going our way in terms of this offseason, JR hasn't turned those into problems. We are still in a great position, with cap space, to figure this all out.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Boyle strikes me as the kind of guy who is going to retire having played for 10 or 11 teams by the time he hangs them up (and I don't particularly see him as the kind of guy to play until he's 40), with New Jersey being his 5th at the age of 32. That's the salary cap at work - he's good enough to be worth what he makes, but not at that salary against the cap for the role he's best at for a team that spends up to the cap. If he was as eager to play for less for a chance to win, then why wouldn't he have stayed in Toronto instead of going to a team that has no chance of competing during his contract?

Boyle is a luxury in a capped league...which means his 30s will be defined by signing with bad teams only to be dealt at the deadline to better teams.

 

[Rufus]

I'm probably saying the same thing over and over again, but let me try to lay out my concerns overall and what I would have liked JR to do.

Going into the off season it seemed pretty clear to most around here that Bonino was going to price himself out and Cullen was going to retire. With that in mind, many to most of us expected JR to make a move either at the draft or through middle of July.

As time has passed, it appears that many posters have just moved the goal posts and are trusting JR when he says he has targets he could get today. Without knowing the list of available players, I can't say whether he's right or not, but I'm a bit skeptical. Of course, I complained about Fleury half of last year and ended up being wrong, so it's reasonable to trust JR and probably fair to call me a little negative.

It was a gamble and maybe a smart gamble to wait on Cullen, but I was pretty clear all summer that Cullen wasn't coming back. Of course, I thought he was going to retire, so it's not like I was totally right.

If I were the GM, I would have given Cullen a shorter time frame to decide. I get that Cullen earned the right to take his time, but the Pens frankly didn't have time to wait this summer. Last year we had Bonino and Fehr around, so there was no risk to wait on Cullen. This year, the risk outweighed the reward IMO. Therefore, I would have pushed hard for Moore or traded for a center rather than Reaves. I know the Reaves thing was a priority, but I don't have to agree with the priority and I don't.

As for 3C, I think it makes sense to give your best offer for Duchene and then move on. Waiting it out is a bigger gamble, in my estimation, than the hopes of getting Sakic to come down to your price. You can always circle back later on if he gets desperate. I would have liked to see what Bonino's ask was from the Pens, but I'm not opposed to the term if you could get the cap hit under 4MM and without a restrictive NTC. IF you decide to move on from him, I think you need a plan in place to replace him and I'd like to see that plan acted on before the season starts.

The reason for that timeline is because of the importance of limiting Sid and Geno's ice time in the early parts of the season. I want them playing closer to 18 minutes a night. You can do that when you have Bonino and Cullen. You can't do that with Rowney, McClement, Blueger, Dea.

So if there's a deal for W. Karlsson out there today, make the deal. If it's Sheahan, ugh, I'll think about it if it's cheap enough. You can always open up cap space for a better center later on if you need to.

Some of my view is impatience, but I think some of it is being smart. You don't dick around with the center position and you need a plan in place for properly utilizing your 2 most important players.

I'm with you on this point. Sid and Geno have played a lot of hockey at this point and fatigue is going to be a factor at this point. We all believed it would be last year, but neither of them appeared to slow down at any point. You can't continue to live that dangerously though. If one of them really fatigued during the season with our current center depth, we would be in some serious trouble. I can't imagine JR is content with letting Sid and Geno play tons of minutes early in the season. However, that viewpoint depends on how much stock you put into JR waiting for the big name acquisition.

Well I hope you feel better now. It sounds like skepticism and hindsight are big parts of your life. So it looks like you called the Cullen situation....or maybe not. I guess if you continue to think everything is going to turn out negative, some things will. As far as Bonino goes, I have to think Jimmy has a plan in place - he's told us as much - it just hasn't happened yet....and still may not before camp. I hope you'll be able to cope with that. And just for the record, how do you know the likes of Rowney, McClement, Blueger, and/or Dea aren't capable of limiting Sid and Geno's icetime? You don't. But I guess it's fine if you continue to think as such...

I think you are really reaching if you think that combination of players can take away the hard minutes that Sid and Geno play. I'm not saying they are bad/incapable and it's certainly possible that one of these players surprises way more than we expect them to, but that's not a way to run the team. Now, maybe early on you can have Sid and Geno play heavy minutes to shelter the 3C and 4C, but that can only happen for a short time if we don't want the two of them run ragged by the time the playoffs hit. That would suggest that JR would make one of his classic December/January trades to pick up a center.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I guess the question is how serious do people believe that signing Cullen was this summer and if you knew in July he wasn't returning, would you have done anything differently?

That's a hindsight question, but I'm curious.

Maybe Moore but aside from him not really. There wasn't anyone I was pissed they didn't sign.

I absolutely believe Reaves could have stopped Geno from feeling he had to take matters into his own hands after the Jets were taking cheap shots all game (February 16th). If you'll remember, Schultz left the game after a dirty hit from Buff and the Jets were taking liberties left and right. It boiled over and Geno responded with a dirty hit of his own, which was what he had to answer for a couple weeks later. Now we have Reaves to prevent our superstar from putting himself in that position.

In fact, any time Sid or Geno is being targeted Reaves can deal with it. Neither of them should feel compelled to fight in those situations again - we didn't have anyone else on the roster to do it before, so they had to. Now we do, so they don't.



Right. It won't stop everything, but it will likely stop some things. So the question is...how much is that worth?

How much is it worth for the Pens to reduce cheap shots against their franchise players over the course of a season to minimize their wear and tear over the course of a season? I'd say quite a bit. Certainly enough that I'd swap out a 4th liner putting up 20-25 points for Reaves putting up 13.

It's such a drop in the bucket that I don't think it's worth much.

And with Winnipeg Byfuglien's massive ass was front and centre, Reaves isn't going to scare him off or an entire team out for blood. I doubt someone else fighting would have calmed Malkin down and then that moronic code came into it. This isn't manageable or fixable on the team level.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's such a drop in the bucket that I don't think it's worth much.

Well then we definitely disagree. I'm not sure how much you think a 10 point difference in a 4th line winger is worth - particularly since we have players we could call up for Reaves for a production bump when the games matter if he proves ineffective - but it isn't worth Sid or Geno taking extra targeted punishment for X number of games a year.

Any of those games could be the one that puts them out. One Staal cross-check to the back of Crosby's head is one too many for me.

And with Winnipeg Byfuglien's massive ass was front and centre, Reaves isn't going to scare him off or an entire team out for blood. I doubt someone else fighting would have calmed Malkin down and then that moronic code came into it. This isn't manageable or fixable on the team level.

Who cares if he scares him? The point is that Geno wouldn't be compelled to make that hit or answer for it later, because Reaves would be the one addressing it.

 

[Shady Machine]

Well then we definitely disagree. I'm not sure how much you think a 10 point difference in a 4th line winger is worth - particularly since we have players we could call up for Reaves for a production bump when the games matter if he proves ineffective - but it isn't worth Sid or Geno taking extra targeted punishment for X number of games a year.

Any of those games could be the one that puts them out. One Staal cross-check to the back of Crosby's head is one too many for me.

This is the key point. What makes you believe Staal stops cross checking Sid in the back of the head? I guess if Reaves starts cross checking McDonagh in the head, but does Staal/Rangers care that much about McDonagh? If you get Crosby/Malkin out, you really increase your odds of winning more than McDonagh out decreases your odds.

I guess some "protection" or deterrent is better than none. I'm in favor of Reaves not because of the deterrent factor, but because other team's D will have to look over their shoulders for once. I just don't like the makeup of a Rowney-Reaves line, but there's time to correct that.

 

[Riptide]

I guess the question is how serious do people believe that signing Cullen was this summer and if you knew in July he wasn't returning, would you have done anything differently?

That's a hindsight question, but I'm curious.

Personally I didn't really expect him to retire this summer - maybe that was just me hoping for the best, but that was my take on it. However I never expected him to sign with Minny. I figured it would be with us or retiring. Obviously if you know you're not getting him, you go and sign Moore. But if there's even a small chance that MC is coming back you wait it out. He's just too well respected not to wait.

And Rutherford even said he wouldn't wait forever. He said in June that he'll give him some time, but that if push comes to shove, he'll ask him to make a decision. Clearly that wasn't the case prior to MC signing with Minny.

But then I'm not all that concerned about having to have Rowney as our #4C.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well then we definitely disagree. I'm not sure how much you think a 10 point difference in a 4th line winger is worth - particularly since we have players we could call up for Reaves for a production bump when the games matter if he proves ineffective - but it isn't worth Sid or Geno taking extra targeted punishment for X number of games a year.

Any of those games could be the one that puts them out. One Staal cross-check to the back of Crosby's head is one too many for me.

And it's more likely the hundred other things puts them out than the handful of players that get scared off. So, yeah, 10 points is probably still worth more than a negligible difference. At best it breaks even and the injury risk is still stupidly high because the league is awful.

What Staal did was ****, it looked bad and a player like that shouldn't feel comfortable doing that. Players are still cross checking, slashing, ****ing wrestling and elbowing all over the ice. Staal and his ilk being turned off might feel good but it's not doing anything in the grand scheme of things.

Who cares if he scares him? The point is that Geno wouldn't be compelled to make that hit or answer for it later, because Reaves would be the one addressing it.

The dirty play and potential injury still happened, and I think part of Malkin answering it was him being pissed. Reaves addressing it doesn't be necessarily mean Malkin's reaction goes away. Reaves handling one thing and potentially getting thrown out because it's the god damn NHL doesn't mean Malkin isn't still, well, Malkin.

 

[Peat]

If I'd known Cullen wasn't coming back then, yeah, I'd have rung Moore. I'm not aware of any other FA centres that offered what we wanted at the price tag we wanted.

I was never sure either way on Cullen retiring. Rutherford was very sharp in dismissing the idea he'd definitely be retiring though.

 

[Riptide]

I think there's some value to the player being with the team in training camp, but I can agree with that. The question is how long should JR wait into the season before he pulls the trigger?

I go back and forth on this all the time. Part of me wants a solution by training camp. Part of me wants a solution today. And part of me is okay with waiting a little bit. But every time I try and put a number of games on what a "little bit" is, I struggle. Is it 10 games? 25? 40? I mean some of those numbers seem asinine.

I think the answer there is, we'll know when we absolutely must pull the trigger on something. That could be after 10 games, or it could be after 25 games. But if for some reason a solution isn't found prior to the start of the season, I think it will be pretty clear pretty quickly whether we can afford to wait things out.

 

[Pens x]

And Rutherford even said he wouldn't wait forever. He said in June that he'll give him some time, but that if push comes to shove, he'll ask him to make a decision. Clearly that wasn't the case prior to MC signing with Minny.

Giving someone 2 months to decide might as well be forever. You've already missed out on the good free agents after July 10th or so. You are certainly not going to sign any respectable player in late August.

The difference between Moore and Cullen is not worth sitting around for 2 months. You sign Moore and go from there. That was just a poor decision. He re-signed in mid-August last summer so it wasn't unexpected he'd take this long. Signing McClement really threw me off though. If you want to go with your guys, fine. But if McClement event sniffs a roster spot this was clearly a big screw up by Rutherford.

Insert Rutherford excuse here:
-We just won the cup
-There is no rush, rutherford has until the trade deadline
-Hindsight is 20/20
-Jimmy will get things done, no worries!

 

[SCPens]

And it's more likely the hundred other things puts them out than the handful of players that get scared off. So, yeah, 10 points is probably still worth more than a negligible difference. At best it breaks even and the injury risk is still stupidly high because the league is awful.

What Staal did was ****, it looked bad and a player like that shouldn't feel comfortable doing that. Players are still cross checking, slashing, ****ing wrestling and elbowing all over the ice. Staal and his ilk being turned off might feel good but it's not doing anything in the grand scheme of things.




The dirty play and potential injury still happened, and I think part of Malkin answering it was him being pissed. Reaves addressing it doesn't be necessarily mean Malkin's reaction goes away. Reaves handling one thing and potentially getting thrown out because it's the god damn NHL doesn't mean Malkin isn't still, well, Malkin.

And it doesn't necessarily mean Malkin's reaction doesn't go away. The last couple of seasons the Pens had NO answer for any of the shenanigans they had to endure game after game. The idea of taking things into your own hands now changes. We now atleast have a guy that can skate and keep up with our system who should be at the very least able to lace them up against the heavier and dirtier teams in the league to deter some of this type of behaviour. When Cole and Kunitz/Wilson are your "tough guys" I don't think the opposing team thinks anything about consequences. I can assure you Reeves affects that kind of mindset.

 

[Shady Machine]

Personally I didn't really expect him to retire this summer - maybe that was just me hoping for the best, but that was my take on it. However I never expected him to sign with Minny. I figured it would be with us or retiring. Obviously if you know you're not getting him, you go and sign Moore. But if there's even a small chance that MC is coming back you wait it out. He's just too well respected not to wait.

And Rutherford even said he wouldn't wait forever. He said in June that he'll give him some time, but that if push comes to shove, he'll ask him to make a decision. Clearly that wasn't the case prior to MC signing with Minny.

But then I'm not all that concerned about having to have Rowney as our #4C.

That's fair. I also thought it was us or retirement, but I was pretty sure he was retiring. Obviously I was wrong on that.

 

[SCPens]

Giving someone 2 months might as well be forever. You've already missed out on the good free agents after July 10th or so. You are certainly not going to sign any respectable player in late August.

The difference between Moore and Cullen is not worth sitting around for 2 months. You sign Moore and go from there. That was just a poor decision. He re-signed in mid-August last summer so it wasn't unexpected he'd take this long.

Insert Rutherford excuse here:
-We just won the cup
-There is no rush, rutherford has until the trade deadline
-Hindsight is 20/20
-Jimmy will get things done, no worries!

Yeah but it's more than that buddy. Rutherford's in charge of running an NHL franchise, not an EA2018 fantasy team. Cullen just gave you everything he had for 2 years on the way to winning 2 consecutive Cups. You don't just kick him to the curb and sign a FA to replace him if the guy's potentially looking to come back. This is a tight locker room, a group of guys who get along VERY well. Players need to be treated like human beings....because guess what, that's what they are! And making moves that potentially disrespect a player can come back to bite you in the a$$. There's much more to building an NHL roster than just shifting names around on a white board.

 

[Shady Machine]

I go back and forth on this all the time. Part of me wants a solution by training camp. Part of me wants a solution today. And part of me is okay with waiting a little bit. But every time I try and put a number of games on what a "little bit" is, I struggle. Is it 10 games? 25? 40? I mean some of those numbers seem asinine.

I think the answer there is, we'll know when we absolutely must pull the trigger on something. That could be after 10 games, or it could be after 25 games. But if for some reason a solution isn't found prior to the start of the season, I think it will be pretty clear pretty quickly whether we can afford to wait things out.

Yeah the "little bit" part is what I debate as well (obviously I prefer now). Some say "we have until the trade deadline". That's way too long for me, but 10 games vs 20 or whatever, I'm not really sure.

I think you are right that it will become pretty clear to JR and Co. on when they NEED to make a move.

 

[Riptide]

Giving someone 2 months to decide might as well be forever. You've already missed out on the good free agents after July 10th or so. You are certainly not going to sign any respectable player in late August.

The difference between Moore and Cullen is not worth sitting around for 2 months. You sign Moore and go from there. That was just a poor decision. He re-signed in mid-August last summer so it wasn't unexpected he'd take this long. Signing McClement really threw me off though. If you want to go with your guys, fine. But if McClement event sniffs a roster spot this was clearly a big screw up by Rutherford.

Insert Rutherford excuse here:
-We just won the cup
-There is no rush, rutherford has until the trade deadline
-Hindsight is 20/20
-Jimmy will get things done, no worries!

The only guy worth signing signed on July 1st. I'm not telling Cullen we can't take him back because we signed Dominic ****ing Moore on July 1st and blew our cap space because we were afraid of waiting a little bit.

 

[mpp9]

JR apparently used the words teams against the cap as potential partners. Toronto, Detroit and Dallas are over the cap. And Florida wants to cut salary. I think that's a sound plan for now. Detroit has every type of center you could possibly want. Longterm stud in Larkin. Win now impact player in Z. Nielsen. And cheaper guys in Sheahan and Glendening.

 

[ColePens]

The only guy worth signing signed on July 1st. I'm not telling Cullen we can't take him back because we signed Dominic ****ing Moore on July 1st and blew our cap space because we were afraid of waiting a little bit.

Yeah if someone asked me what is the #1 4C you want this year. I'd say Cullen, for who is available. The low risk high reward play was to leave yourself without a 4C for the option at the best one that fits this team and is a great leader.

If you went a safer route and moved on from Cullen, at best you are moving a low risk, low reward situation just to make sure you have Moore. And who knows if Moore even wanted to come here. It's never a guarantee. Then if you look at any other 4C, there really weren't any out there worth signing so why not wait to see what Cully does?

We literally could have offered the same contract to Moore and maybe Moore says no. Then what?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Giving someone 2 months to decide might as well be forever. You've already missed out on the good free agents after July 10th or so. You are certainly not going to sign any respectable player in late August.

The difference between Moore and Cullen is not worth sitting around for 2 months. You sign Moore and go from there. That was just a poor decision. He re-signed in mid-August last summer so it wasn't unexpected he'd take this long. Signing McClement really threw me off though. If you want to go with your guys, fine. But if McClement event sniffs a roster spot this was clearly a big screw up by Rutherford.

Insert Rutherford excuse here:
-We just won the cup
-There is no rush, rutherford has until the trade deadline
-Hindsight is 20/20
-Jimmy will get things done, no worries!

So they should have told Cullen to go pound sand then and signed Moore on July 1st even though they had no idea what Cullen would decide on? Sounds like you'd be a great GM. Yeah, let's not patiently wait on the guy who made the Penguins 4th line elite in 2 cup runs, let's just tell him to take it or leave it and go sign someone worse just so some random HF poster has one less thing to complain about on August 28th. But let's not kid ourselves, you'd just be complaining about something else.

 

[Shady Machine]

So they should have told Cullen to go pound sand then and signed Moore on July 1st even though they had no idea what Cullen would decide on? Sounds like you'd be a great GM. Yeah, let's not patiently wait on the guy who made the Penguins 4th line elite in 2 cup runs, let's just tell him to take it or leave it and go sign someone worse just so some random HF poster has one less thing to complain about on August 28th. But let's not kid ourselves, you'd just be complaining about something else.

There's a difference between telling someone to pound sand and explaining to them your situation and asking them to decide sooner. The end result is probably the same, but I don't like how you keep presenting the opposing view as being a dick to the player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's a difference between telling someone to pound sand and explaining to them your situation and asking them to decide sooner. The end result is probably the same, but I don't like how you keep presenting the opposing view as being a dick to the player.

There's a difference between "asking them to decide sooner" and saying "if you don't decide by July 1st, we're replacing you". It's completely being a dick to the player, at least if they were going to sign Moore instead of Cullen. It's basically the team saying "you have to inconvenience yourself because we don't want to wait for you". It's a total dick move by the team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hanzal signed for $4.75 AAV

Hefty price for a guy who is injured more than even our own walking wounded.

Nick Bonino was a solid 3C

Meh.

Thornton (don't know if he would have left SJ but way too expensive)

So you listed him anyway, even though you acknowledge he'd be way too expensive? This is the problem. You're on JR for not acquiring guys who even you don't think we could afford.

Marcus Johansson only cost a 2nd round pick (wsh prob wouldn't have dealt him to us but could we have traded an asset to another team to flip us Johansson?)

Schenn - although the Flyers wouldn't trade him to us but could another team have gotten involved to flip him to us?

They're both wingers who haven't shown to be very effective when tried at center. They're also from division rivals who likely would never deal with the Pens unless the Pens drastically overpaid.

Stepan was traded

Salary cap? Not to mention, I don't recall JR having the 7th overall draft pick available in his arsenal to pull off the deal.

Eberle was traded

This is the third winger you've listed as an answer to our 3C woes. Why do you keep listing guys who can't even play center effectively as options?

What's next, Hamonic was also moved. Maybe he'd be the answer at 3C!

So yea, these types of players were available to an extent. Maybe some teams wanted too much and others didn't want to trade with the Penguins. Plus who knows how many players are available out there right now? There could be quite a few but we just don't know.

On that list, it basically boils down to Bonino or an overpaid and often-injured Hanzal. And for all we know, Hanzal wouldn't have signed anyway because he'd never see top six minutes.

So essentially, Nick Bonino is what all this outcry is over.