Speculation: Ronnie's Roulette - 2022 TDL, news, rumors and discussion - Kraken style

[Gniwder]

WE DO NOT WANT RASK. We want whatever is coming with him because he carries a HEFTY HEFTY cap hit for a guy in the AHL. He's a UFA at the end of the year. This deal would assumedly be all about picks or prospects.

Well you got him now, lol.

Looks to me like a warm body to fill the roster for the rest of the season. $2M pro-rated is gonna be about $500k of real money.

 

[The Marquis]

Not my money.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I say 4 trades with 5 players being traded.

Giordano + Blackwell to New York for 22 1st + Cuylle, originally had Jones but forward prospects are needed more than LD, + 23 3rd. I know Giordano has a NTC so not sure if he wants to go to the Eastern conference, he's been a western conference guy so maybe for family reasons so might make moving him tougher. Rangers could use additional bottom 6 help and they're familiar with Blackwell.

Jankrok to Washington for Hagelin + 22 2nd + 23 4th.

Johansson 50% retained to Colorado for 23 5th + 22 7th.

Sheahan + Colorado 7th to Minnesota for 22 6th.

In 22 1st + 22 2nd + 22 6th + 23 rd + 23 4th + 23 5th. Plus Cuylle.

So I guess I was kinda close, I didn't vote though. Got the Gio + Blackwell combo, should be extra points for that, Johansson with retention, trades with Washington and Minnesota. Thought Sheahan might get a look and didn't see the Lauzon deal coming. I think Francis did better than me, I got a 1st and a prospect, he got more 2nd's and mid round picks.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Congratz for the three people that voted for more than five trades.

Now we're off to 19 more "exciting games" and then the fun actually begins with all those extra picks we've got.

 

[wewantyoursoul]

ESPN+

NHL trade deadline winners and losers: Marc-Andre Fleury, the Rangers, Maple Leafs, more

Here's a look at the winners and losers of the 2022 deadline, from the players who controlled their fate to the teams that took fate into their own hands.

www.espn.com

Winner: Seattle Kraken scouts​

Shilton: After 24 hours of wheeling and dealing, the Kraken now hold 34 picks in the next three entry drafts. That's ... a lot of choices. It should translate into a whole lot of fun for Seattle's scouting staff, which will basically be building this franchise from the ground up with its recommendations (both in draftable players and trade candidates). Talk about having an impact!

 

[Mike Jones]

ESPN+

NHL trade deadline winners and losers: Marc-Andre Fleury, the Rangers, Maple Leafs, more

Here's a look at the winners and losers of the 2022 deadline, from the players who controlled their fate to the teams that took fate into their own hands.

www.espn.com

Winner: Seattle Kraken scouts​

Shilton: After 24 hours of wheeling and dealing, the Kraken now hold 34 picks in the next three entry drafts. That's ... a lot of choices. It should translate into a whole lot of fun for Seattle's scouting staff, which will basically be building this franchise from the ground up with its recommendations (both in draftable players and trade candidates). Talk about having an impact!

Plus I'm sure there will be a lot of contracts that need to be dumped in the offseason. Francis should try and score a couple of those - and the picks that go with them.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Plus I'm sure there will be a lot of contracts that need to be dumped in the offseason. Francis should try and score a couple of those - and the picks that go with them.

I think he should rather use some of the extra picks he's got(+ cap space) in order to bring in better players to help us immediatly.
I mean, the free agent market doesn't look good(unless you want to go into a bidding war for either Gaudreau or Forsberg, if they actually make it there) and adding more of those b-level free agents isn't gonna make this a winner.

Additionaly, he could also package some picks to try and move up, maybe even into the later first round.

 

[Mike Jones]

I think he should rather use some of the extra picks he's got(+ cap space) in order to bring in better players to help us immediatly.
I mean, the free agent market doesn't look good(unless you want to go into a bidding war for either Gaudreau or Forsberg, if they actually make it there) and adding more of those b-level free agents isn't gonna make this a winner.

Additionaly, he could also package some picks to try and move up, maybe even into the later first round.

He can do all of the above.

I don't think trading away picks on established players is going to help the long term success of the franchise, however. If year two is another down year there's no real point. It's best to wait until '23 to make those trades.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think he should rather use some of the extra picks he's got(+ cap space) in order to bring in better players to help us immediatly.
I mean, the free agent market doesn't look good(unless you want to go into a bidding war for either Gaudreau or Forsberg, if they actually make it there) and adding more of those b-level free agents isn't gonna make this a winner.

Additionaly, he could also package some picks to try and move up, maybe even into the later first round.

He pretty much said that yesterday in an interview TDL.

“Sitting here, I’m not saying I’m going to draft all 25 players,” Francis said Monday of the picks. “I’m hoping we don’t, but what it does is it gives us some draft capital and we can go into the markets over time. If teams need to move players, we have those picks that we can trade for players. We do have the (salary) cap space, we do have the money, we still plan on being active in free agency if we can be and those are things to help us kind of turn things around.”

I think his preference is to actually use the picks to get us players/prospects who can help right away.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

He can do all of the above.

I don't think trading away picks on established players is going to help the long term success of the franchise, however. If year two is another down year there's no real point. It's best to wait until '23 to make those trades.

Well, given that we don't have extra first rounders lying around I doubt it's going to be big name guys or established older veterans.
It's rather going to be younger guys with upside that need a change of scenery or play for teams that can't really effort their cap hit(RFA's already on a good deal) on new deals and want at least something back.

Those could actually help us in the future as they could develop together with the rest of the team.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Well, given that we don't have extra first rounders lying around I doubt it's going to be big name guys or established older veterans.
It's rather going to be younger guys with upside that need a change of scenery or play for teams that can't really effort their cap hit(RFA's already on a good deal) on new deals and want at least something back.

Those could actually help us in the future as they could develop together with the rest of the team.

Exactly. And we are not exactly in the position to move out our own 1st round picks for a while. The only way I would even think about moving our 1st round pick is if it is for 2024 and I would still want it lottery protected.

I just have this weird feeling that we end up with DeBrusk in the off-season. He just signed a 2 year extension and could be moveable though I hear that the Bruins are interested in a roster player than picks so that may not work in our favor.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

A couple of thoughts. Francis wants to make big improvements next season. I don't expect us to get any big name FA's though we can land a good player/prospect or 2 via trades. I say take a risk and try to take on both Toews and Monahan at like 50% retention and assuming that it costs us no real assets. This is the first real bad season Toews has had in a while and he may bounce back. Monahan has been bad for a while but if you believe a lot of Flames fans it is more to do with him not getting time in the top-6 than anything else. Injuries are part of the issue but not the main problem.

McCann-Toews-Eberle
Schwartz-Monahan-Gourde
Tanev-Wennberg-Donskoi
Lind-Geekie-Donato

That could be an improvement on our roster and even work out great if Toews or Monahan bounce back in the slightest. Worst case, it costs us $$ and they are off the books the year after anyway. Both at 50% cost us 8.375M dollars and should be no issue to accommodate unless we are looking at landing some big name FA's or other trade targets.

Another advantage of this is that if they bounce back even slightly, they may help us recoup whatever small assets they cost IF we retain another 50% on them during a TDL move. Its not high risk for us given the state of our team next season.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Exactly. And we are not exactly in the position to move out our own 1st round picks for a while. The only way I would even think about moving our 1st round pick is if it is for 2024 and I would still want it lottery protected.

I just have this weird feeling that we end up with DeBrusk in the off-season. He just signed a 2 year extension and could be moveable though I hear that the Bruins are interested in a roster player than picks so that may not work in our favor.

Yeah, I actually thought about him as well.
The Bruins couldn't trade him for just cap space and draft picks right now cause they need him for they playoff run.

Though, that extension was done in order to field better trade offers and I think we're a good bet to be his new destination around draft time.

 

[HoseEmDown]

A couple of thoughts. Francis wants to make big improvements next season. I don't expect us to get any big name FA's though we can land a good player/prospect or 2 via trades. I say take a risk and try to take on both Toews and Monahan at like 50% retention and assuming that it costs us no real assets. This is the first real bad season Toews has had in a while and he may bounce back. Monahan has been bad for a while but if you believe a lot of Flames fans it is more to do with him not getting time in the top-6 than anything else. Injuries are part of the issue but not the main problem.

McCann-Toews-Eberle
Schwartz-Monahan-Gourde
Tanev-Wennberg-Donskoi
Lind-Geekie-Donato

That could be an improvement on our roster and even work out great if Toews or Monahan bounce back in the slightest. Worst case, it costs us $$ and they are off the books the year after anyway. Both at 50% cost us 8.375M dollars and should be no issue to accommodate unless we are looking at landing some big name FA's or other trade targets.

Another advantage of this is that if they bounce back even slightly, they may help us recoup whatever small assets they cost IF we retain another 50% on them during a TDL move. Its not high risk for us given the state of our team next season.

What assets are you getting to take those players on even at 50%? Cause both of them are playing horribly and aren't making your team any better. It also doesn't make sense to put them in the top 6 and move players who are outproducing them to the wing. You also don't have Beniers in your lineup. So the adds to both of those players would need to be significant to make me want to add them and if I did they would be in the bottom 6 until they show something more than they have recently.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yeah, I actually thought about him as well.
The Bruins couldn't trade him for just cap space and draft picks right now cause they need him for they playoff run.

Though, that extension was done in order to field better trade offers and I think we're a good bet to be his new destination around draft time.

I just don't think he's worth the asset they're going to want for him. He's on a bit of a rebound lately but he's also been playing with Bergeron and Marchand. Seattle doesn't have anything close to those two to put him worth. 4M for a 20g 20a 40p player isn't bad but again if they want the Seattle 2nd I say no. He's 26 and a UFA in 2 years, not really young enough nor signed long enough to pay that high a price. The Panthers 2nd I would make that trade. But that also depends on if you get Wright or not and how they want to deploy Beniers. Cause if you want Beniers at C then your top 2 LW are Schwartz and McCann who are better than him so he's not worth it at that point.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

What assets are you getting to take those players on even at 50%? Cause both of them are playing horribly and aren't making your team any better. It also doesn't make sense to put them in the top 6 and move players who are outproducing them to the wing. You also don't have Beniers in your lineup. So the adds to both of those players would need to be significant to make me want to add them and if I did they would be in the bottom 6 until they show something more than they have recently.

Beniers is not a problem. You put him on the 3rd line as winger, which is what I expect for most of the season and move Donskoi/Tanev down to the 4th line. Or even move Donskoi out in a trade.

My thinking behind this is that you are taking a RISK to improve the team immediately. Do you really expect the quality of FA's we sign OR the player/prospects we get in FA are going to be able to make a bigger impact right away? I really don't think so.

This is basically us taking a risk on 2 players who have had a history of performing. Toews, had 60 last season in 70 games. Monahan has been bad for a while (3 seasons) and I don't expect much out of him but atleast it would show intent on Francis part to take on $$ to try and improve the roster. Honestly, I would rather take a risk this way than give mid-level FA's more money and term.

What is the worst that can literally happen? You fall flat on your face and those picks don't work out. Can it really get much worse than this season? And even if it does, you end up with Mitchkov/Bedard and both Toews and Monahan are off the books.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Beniers is not a problem. You put him on the 3rd line as winger, which is what I expect for most of the season and move Donskoi/Tanev down to the 4th line. Or even move Donskoi out in a trade.

My thinking behind this is that you are taking a RISK to improve the team immediately. Do you really expect the quality of FA's we sign OR the player/prospects we get in FA are going to be able to make a bigger impact right away? I really don't think so.

This is basically us taking a risk on 2 players who have had a history of performing. Toews, had 60 last season in 70 games. Monahan has been bad for a while (3 seasons) and I don't expect much out of him but atleast it would show intent on Francis part to take on $$ to try and improve the roster. Honestly, I would rather take a risk this way than give mid-level FA's more money and term.

What is the worst that can literally happen? You fall flat on your face and those picks don't work out. Can it really get much worse than this season? And even if it does, you end up with Mitchkov/Bedard and both Toews and Monahan are off the books.

That's terrible cap management taking on all that cap, even at 50%, without being compensated for it. It depends on the free agents you bring in but you could improve you get the right ones and they'll be around longer to help win down the line as well.

Toews hit 60 2 years ago. He didn't play at all last season and when he came back this one you can see he's on his last legs. Toews is a LTIR candidate next year, not a viable top 6 one. Monahan is just getting worse and worse. He's young enough to maybe recover some but again you can get much better options for less in free agency.

These players aren't helping you win, they are there to get you above the cap floor. They're not going to help you be competitive, they're going to be like Erickson, Roussel and Beagle types that fill out a depleted roster just to get you through the season in the bottom of the league. So the adds for both would need to be worth it because Francis wants to improve not get worse.

 

[Irie]

I think we need an intervention right about now.

We just saw the equivalent of a full tear-down at this TDL in terms of typical rebuild terms.

This team has almost no farm that will be supplying productive help next season outside of Beniers.

Even if Francis goes out and spends a lot on UFAs this offseason to fill all the vacancies, there honestly is not enough cap to add top end UFAs plus secondary top 6 and defensive talent this team needs to be competitive.

Realistically, they could spend to the cap in this UFA period and pick up a bunch of over-priced long term contracts and what we'd get is likely to only be marginally better than Jarnkrok, Gio, Blackwell and Johansson.

And the team would probably still not be a playoff team, especially if the same coaching system and philosophy are in place.

This thread is full of "how do we make this team competitive next year", and the only honest real answer is "sacrifice the future".

I know losing sucks, but does anyone really want to see Francis trade away all these picks and the promising prospects drafted last year, further crippling the farm just for a chance at the playoffs next season?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think we need an intervention right about now.

We just saw the equivalent of a full tear-down at this TDL in terms of typical rebuild terms.

This team has almost no farm that will be supplying productive help next season outside of Beniers.

Even if Francis goes out and spends a lot on UFAs this offseason to fill all the vacancies, there honestly is not enough cap to add top end UFAs plus secondary top 6 and defensive talent this team needs to be competitive.

Realistically, they could spend to the cap in this UFA period and pick up a bunch of over-priced long term contracts and what we'd get is likely to only be marginally better than Jarnkrok, Gio, Blackwell and Johansson.

And the team would probably still not be a playoff team, especially if the same coaching system and philosophy are in place.

This thread is full of "how do we make this team competitive next year", and the only honest real answer is "sacrifice the future".

I know losing sucks, but does anyone really want to see Francis trade away all these picks and the promising prospects drafted last year, further crippling the farm just for a chance at the playoffs next season?

This thread is full of "how do we make this team competitive next year", and the only honest real answer is "sacrifice the future".

This is exactly what I believe in too. Main reason why I even suggested getting Toews and Monahan on at 50% retention. Should not cost us not much except $$. Maybe some picks in the 4-7 range going one way or the other but should not cost more. And the contracts are off the books the next season.

It will also prevent us from being too trigger happy in FA. As far as the teardown goes for rebuild teams, I am not sure we are there yet. It was a teardown but if we really want to get assets they would be looking to move out the likes of Gourde, Eberle, etc. Players are good contracts but don't fit the time frame we expect to be competitive. They are our 'core' but they really are not what a team is built around. Simply complimentary players.

The only reason I would say that taking on Toews/Monahan is a bad idea is IF Francis is committed to taking really bad contracts on that get us assets quicker or right away. If we are spending money to improve next year, Toews/Monahan are risks worth taking. If we are looking to get better in the future, you don't go that route. You try to use cap space to get assets with bad contracts and load up for the future.

 

[The Marquis]

Well… there are other problems that need to be addressed besides players if we’re going to be a winner next year. Probably the only thing we all agree on.

 

[Irie]

This thread is full of "how do we make this team competitive next year", and the only honest real answer is "sacrifice the future".

This is exactly what I believe in too. Main reason why I even suggested getting Toews and Monahan on at 50% retention. Should not cost us not much except $$. Maybe some picks in the 4-7 range going one way or the other but should not cost more. And the contracts are off the books the next season.

It will also prevent us from being too trigger happy in FA. As far as the teardown goes for rebuild teams, I am not sure we are there yet. It was a teardown but if we really want to get assets they would be looking to move out the likes of Gourde, Eberle, etc. Players are good contracts but don't fit the time frame we expect to be competitive. They are our 'core' but they really are not what a team is built around. Simply complimentary players.

The only reason I would say that taking on Toews/Monahan is a bad idea is IF Francis is committed to taking really bad contracts on that get us assets quicker or right away. If we are spending money to improve next year, Toews/Monahan are risks worth taking. If we are looking to get better in the future, you don't go that route. You try to use cap space to get assets with bad contracts and load up for the future.

It is an interesting idea, but I don't know if Chicago gives up anything to move Toews at 50%. Have there ever been any rumors?

I think there is too much sentiment there to even move him or, likely ask him to waive his NMC, unless they were offering to send him to a contender at the TDL for a shot at the cup.

I think Monahan can play a role as an overpriced third line center, and at 50%, he likely has some value, so I think Calgary might be able to find a taker and possibly get a pick back, and not give us something to take him.

Unfortunately he also has a NTC, and I'd imagine he will be submitting a list this upcoming season after this Dadonov fiasco with all of the teams with enough cap space to take on his contract, which likely includes Seattle.

But at 3.2, while I don't love the idea of bringing in Monahan as a big solution, I don't hate the concept of having him around for the season as a Johansson/Jarnkrok replacement, if Francis isn't giving up much.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Monahan has 9 even strength points this year in 62 games. Over the past two seasons he has 50 points in 112 games with just 29 of them at ES. Victor Rask has 36 points in 83 games with 30 of then at ES. You could probably sign Rask for 1M or less next season. The only way you should take Monahan, at 50%, is with a 2nd attached to him. He's terrible, getting worse each season and Calgary will be desperate for cap space.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It is an interesting idea, but I don't know if Chicago gives up anything to move Toews at 50%. Have there ever been any rumors?

I think there is too much sentiment there to even move him or, likely ask him to waive his NMC, unless they were offering to send him to a contender at the TDL for a shot at the cup.

I think Monahan can play a role as an overpriced third line center, and at 50%, he likely has some value, so I think Calgary might be able to find a taker and possibly get a pick back, and not give us something to take him.

Unfortunately he also has a NTC, and I'd imagine he will be submitting a list this upcoming season after this Dadonov fiasco with all of the teams with enough cap space to take on his contract, which likely includes Seattle.

But at 3.2, while I don't love the idea of bringing in Monahan as a big solution, I don't hate the concept of having him around for the season as a Johansson/Jarnkrok replacement, if Francis isn't giving up much.

It was just an idea in my mind. I think Monahan waives it for us because he knows he can get a top-6 role here. Toews, yeah, I dont expect him to waive for us. But that is something he may need to do if he wants to get a headstart on finding a new team.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Instead of hitting free agency I would target teams that need to open up capspace to sign other players. From Florida I would offer Calgary 23 3rd for Montour. RD with 2 years left at 3.5M, so not that expensive and gives them much needed offensive help on the blueline. I would offer Pittsburgh the Panthers 2nd round pick for Kapanen + 4th. Sign Kapanen to a 4 x 4 deal. 25 year old RW, decent offensive numbers but also plays a very good two way game. Go to Edmonton and say you'll take Kassian for a 23 3rd. He makes 3.5M for the next 2 seasons but adds some grit to the 4th line that the team lacks. Re-sign Fluery, Donato, Geekie, Lind for fairly cheap.

Schwartz - Gourde - Kapanen
Berniers - McCann - Eberle
Tanev - Wennberg -.Donskoi
Donato - Geekie - Kassian
Lind

Dunn - Larsson
Oleksiak - Montour
Soucy - Borgen
Fluery

This isn't much of an upgrade on the roster that started this year but it's a bit younger with guys like Kapanen and Montour instead of Jankrok, Johansson and Giordano. You still have over 4M in cap, that's with Berniers at 3.75 AAV so if he doesn't hit his bonuses more space, so you could take on a LTIR dump like Klefblom or Gardiner if you wanted. The trades you swapped out 3rds and dropped from a late 2nd to 4th so keep most of your capital. Move Soucy and Donskoi at the deadline next year for more picks. Hopefully you drafted someone good this year and are set to get another one next year. The following season should see a few prospects filling in the lineup and guys like Eberle, Wennberg, Kassian, Montour and Driedger nearing UFA so available for trade.

 

[The Marquis]

Instead of hitting free agency I would target teams that need to open up capspace to sign other players. From Florida I would offer Calgary 23 3rd for Montour. RD with 2 years left at 3.5M, so not that expensive and gives them much needed offensive help on the blueline. I would offer Pittsburgh the Panthers 2nd round pick for Kapanen + 4th. Sign Kapanen to a 4 x 4 deal. 25 year old RW, decent offensive numbers but also plays a very good two way game. Go to Edmonton and say you'll take Kassian for a 23 3rd. He makes 3.5M for the next 2 seasons but adds some grit to the 4th line that the team lacks. Re-sign Fluery, Donato, Geekie, Lind for fairly cheap.

Schwartz - Gourde - Kapanen
Berniers - McCann - Eberle
Tanev - Wennberg -.Donskoi
Donato - Geekie - Kassian
Lind

Dunn - Larsson
Oleksiak - Montour
Soucy - Borgen
Fluery

This isn't much of an upgrade on the roster that started this year but it's a bit younger with guys like Kapanen and Montour instead of Jankrok, Johansson and Giordano. You still have over 4M in cap, that's with Berniers at 3.75 AAV so if he doesn't hit his bonuses more space, so you could take on a LTIR dump like Klefblom or Gardiner if you wanted. The trades you swapped out 3rds and dropped from a late 2nd to 4th so keep most of your capital. Move Soucy and Donskoi at the deadline next year for more picks. Hopefully you drafted someone good this year and are set to get another one next year. The following season should see a few prospects filling in the lineup and guys like Eberle, Wennberg, Kassian, Montour and Driedger nearing UFA so available for trade.

I like this, but like you said…. Not much of an upgrade unless Beniers exceeds expectations.