Sportsnet: Ron MacLean: Babcock watching Leafs ‘carefully’

[Kingstonian84*]

It doesn't make sense that Shanny placed assistant coaches to his liking with Carlyle, but would have to let Babcock pick his own if he goes to the Leafs? The Leafs coaching group has been excellent so far this year getting the most they can from this group. I think Babcock is looking for the money.

I don't think it's so much money as it is about him wanting a bigger say it player personnel decisions when it comes to management... Which is why I feel negotiations between him and the wings have it a serious snag.

Detroit is a one man show with holland running things and it appears to be there's a reluctance there to give Babcock more power and voting. I think that's a big thing Babcock is looking for in terms of where he signs on.

 

[Pi]

No coach in the world can make our 1st line play a cycle game. You either want to play the game that way or don't.

Right now our first line is the reason why we are inconsistent. They give up far too many goals consistently and score in bunches.

Babcock doesn't change the Leafs possession numbers one bit. Smart coach using Toronto as a way to get PAID.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

No coach in the world can make our 1st line play a cycle game. You either want to play the game that way or don't.

Right now our first line is the reason why we are inconsistent. They give up far too many goals consistently and score in bunches.

Babcock doesn't change the Leafs possession numbers one bit. Smart coach using Toronto as a way to get PAID.

I'm not overly familiar with detroits system but whenever I watch them against the Leafs they are very much a fast skating quick passing team who loves to attack North-south but also is very good at limiting turnovers and getting back into position quickly if they don't have the puck.. I guess what I'm trying to say is from what I've seen the wings don't cycle much against the leafs, though I'm not sure if that's the case vs other teams.

The problem with the first line isn't that they don't cycle, it's that Kissel and Jvr are incredibly soft in the corners in all ends of the ice which increases turnovers. Not to mention for some reason that line can't transtion very well from their own end to the o zone, I would like to think a new coach would be able to fix that but I'm not sure.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I'm not overly familiar with detroits system but whenever I watch them against the Leafs they are very much a fast skating quick passing team who loves to attack North-south but also is very good at limiting turnovers and getting back into position quickly if they don't have the puck.. I guess what I'm trying to say is from what I've seen the wings don't cycle much against the leafs, though I'm not sure if that's the case vs other teams.

The problem with the first line isn't that they don't cycle, it's that Kissel and Jvr are incredibly soft in the corners in all ends of the ice which increases turnovers. Not to mention for some reason that line can't transtion very well from their own end to the o zone, I would like to think a new coach would be able to fix that but I'm not sure.

Yup, when you are first to the puck in your own zone but backs away from it because Gaborik is coming towards you and you dont want him to hit you, well then you have a problem as a hockey player no coach in the world can fix. No matter what system, with that mind set you will always be on the losing end in the long run.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Yup, when you are first to the puck in your own zone but backs away from it because Gaborik is coming towards you and you dont want him to hit you, well then you have a problem as a hockey player no coach in the world can fix. No matter what system, with that mind set you will always be on the losing end in the long run.

Agreed. Which is why if Babcock comes here I woudlnt be shocked to see kessel getting traded, he doesn't exactly scream like a player Babcock would approve of.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Agreed. Which is why if Babcock comes here I woudlnt be shocked to see kessel getting traded, he doesn't exactly scream like a player Babcock would approve of.

It was not because of lack of talent they let Hudler go. Not at the same level as Kessel, far from. But he was soft, struggled with consistency when it came to the effort he put in and he simply did not fit the system they play. In Calgary where they lack top end talent he can come in and provide something they lack and all of a sudden no one cares if is soft on the puck. But Babcock coach to win it all, Calgary is not yet at that level.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

It was not because of lack of talent they let Hudler go. Not at the same level as Kessel, far from. But he was soft, struggled with consistency when it came to the effort he put in and he simply did not fit the system they play. In Calgary where they lack top end talent he can come in and provide something they lack and all of a sudden no one cares if is soft on the puck. But Babcock coach to win it all, Calgary is not yet at that level.

Exactly. Detroits teams have always been about possessing the puck and attacking, Limited time spent in the defensive zone but when there being aggressive on the opposition to get the puck back and then making quick transtion plays to get back on the attack... Babcock wants everyone to buy in.

I think kessel would represent a problem with Babcock.... Sure kessel can wheel and deal in the attacking end but he's lackadiaal in his own end, afraid of contact and he too struggles with making the simple play out of his zone.

I could easily see these two clashing if Babcock comes here.

 

[Al14]

I have to wonder if Babcock is using the Leafs in an attempt to squeeze more money from Detroit.

Somehow, I don't know if he's ready to be associated with anything Maple Leaf.

 

[Bluelines]

I have to wonder if Babcock is using the Leafs in an attempt to squeeze more money from Detroit.

Somehow, I don't know if he's ready to be associated with anything Maple Leaf.

I think he's doing it to squeeze more leverage with something, player moves, money, etc.

There is no reason for him to stretch it out this long unless he has a master plan in place. Clearly there is something he wants that Holland has not offered yet or cannot offer

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I think he's doing it to squeeze more leverage with something, player moves, money, etc.

There is no reason for him to stretch it out this long unless he has a master plan in place. Clearly there is something he wants that Holland has not offered yet or cannot offer

Didnt he want a say in what players they bring in? Isnt that the big hold up?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Exactly. Detroits teams have always been about possessing the puck and attacking, Limited time spent in the defensive zone but when there being aggressive on the opposition to get the puck back and then making quick transtion plays to get back on the attack... Babcock wants everyone to buy in.

I think kessel would represent a problem with Babcock.... Sure kessel can wheel and deal in the attacking end but he's lackadiaal in his own end, afraid of contact and he too struggles with making the simple play out of his zone.

I could easily see these two clashing if Babcock comes here.

He clashed with Julien and he clashed with Wilson. Have not heard much about him clashing with Randy. But Randy is Randy, he seem content with just being around and coach and doesnt seem like he wants to take that fight. But Babcock is as stubborn as Julien and have similar values when it comes to what he wants in a hockey player. That is a fight that would happen sooner or later unless Kessel all of sudden makes a 180 on how he plays.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I think he's doing it to squeeze more leverage with something, player moves, money, etc.

There is no reason for him to stretch it out this long unless he has a master plan in place. Clearly there is something he wants that Holland has not offered yet or cannot offer

Just to clarify: they aren't even negotiating right now. Both Babcock and Holland have stated that if they didn't get a deal done before the season, they wouldn't negotiate until after the season is over. It isn't about stretching it out, it is just about them not even talking about it until the season ends.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Just to clarify: they aren't even negotiating right now. Both Babcock and Holland have stated that if they didn't get a deal done before the season, they wouldn't negotiate until after the season is over. It isn't about stretching it out, it is just about them not even talking about it until the season ends.

That is probably the case that they are not negotiating right now. But the reason they did not get a deal done before the season was that not because Babcock wanted a bigger input in what players they go for?

 

[Sypher04]

The thing is though, if this team makes the playoffs, and maybe even wins a round, are the Leafs brass gonna have the stomach to fire Carlyle even if Babcock wants to come here...

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

The thing is though, if this team makes the playoffs, and maybe even wins a round, are the Leafs brass gonna have the stomach to fire Carlyle even if Babcock wants to come here...

Yeah, why not? Always do what is best for the franchise long term. I like Carlyle but if we could get a better coach in or a coach who the management think have a better long term future then they should act accordingly.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That is probably the case that they are not negotiating right now. But the reason they did not get a deal done before the season was that not because Babcock wanted a bigger input in what players they go for?

That's speculation. Some people say it is because Babcock wanted to see the young guys on the team and how the team does. Some people say it is for the money. Some people say it is for more input. Some people say it is so he can see if Holland will sign a top 4 defenseman this season. Some people say it is because Babcock wants to do a year-by-year contract but Holland wants him long-term.

Nobody really knows. The truth may be in some of those things, or none of them. Thing is we won't know until May or June.