Sportsnet: Ron MacLean: Babcock watching Leafs ‘carefully’

[johnny_rudeboy]

And Kessel has demonstrated that he can have good possession stats. There's more to it than "winning board battles" - it's also about things like zone exists and entries, which is an area where Kessel excels.

Yeah, like not starting the rush to soon before you know your team mates can make a safe pass to you. Kessel do struggle with that, like the whole first line does. When it works, it works brilliantly and either JVR or Kessel is in a foot race with a defender, and they tend to win those. If it does not work, we lose possession and the other team can attack, with 2 or 3 of our forwards half way through their rush.

I dont think Babcock would support that kind of behaviour.

 

[HockeyCA]

And Kessel has demonstrated that he can have good possession stats. There's more to it than "winning board battles" - it's also about things like zone exists and entries, which is an area where Kessel excels.

In the playoffs, it is all about winning board battles and competing.. Kessel had a goal last game, yes, but he wasn't all that effective, right? Detroit plays a system that gives players zero room, its like chess or foosball out there, every player needs to move the puck up to gain entry. You need players who can win battles in the offensive and defensive zone. But I agree with you that Kessel, at times, can be dynamic. Just don't think the other "stuff" that he brings along is worth it.

 

[hotpaws]

And Kessel has demonstrated that he can have good possession stats. There's more to it than "winning board battles" - it's also about things like zone exists and entries, which is an area where Kessel excels.

how does Kessel excel at zone exits ?

 

[Derrty]

I kinda feel bad for Randy

 

[Stephen]

And Kessel has demonstrated that he can have good possession stats. There's more to it than "winning board battles" - it's also about things like zone exists and entries, which is an area where Kessel excels.

Zone exits and entries. Sounds like you're describing a "rush".

The guy is such an exceptionally cowardly player. Semantics can't hide that.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I stated this before, but I will state this again:

I don't think i want Mike Babcock to be the next coach of the Leafs. I'm sure he's a very good coach, but he has his issues just like everyone else. He can do a lot with alittle (ie: the Grand Rapid-Wings hybrid team. (to be honest, the only coach I'd want that's currently employed right now is Joel Quennville, and I've wanted him to coach the Leafs since he was coaching the Blues. I love Joel.

Anyway. this is the reason:
I don't want 'today' people. Because too many times that's what we get. We want 'today' people who did things 'yesterday' and has this pedigree, and we think "ooh! this will be the one. I want Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter (Nonis for as long as he's here), to find a tomorrow guy. Now. if that's an assistant coach that's fine, or the biggest, brightest guy in the AHL/CHL. I want a guy that we can create a 10 year + program, with our new-bright management office. I don't want to try to duplicate, re-create, or graft on the

LA Model
Pittsburgh Model
Boston Model
Detroit Model
Chicago Model.

I want the Leafs to develop the Leafs Model. Look for a Roy type, or this Blashill type guy. I sort of want a blank-slate guy (not like an Eakins, but just someone who has really cultivated his craft), and that from tip to top and back again, the Leafs are creating something that other teams will look at and say "yeah, you know, I want that for my team."

Maybe Babcock is that guy and i'm just being verbose for no reason. But he does have his issues -issues, quite frankly I think as a fan base we'd hate (regardless of 'playoffs' and what not). I remember reading/hearing that Babs does want some serious input to the roster.

(shrug) that's my 5 cents on the matter.

 

[Menzinger]

Zone exits and entries. Sounds like you're describing a "rush".

And this "rush" aspect is central to puck possession: getting the puck into your opponents end......

Which is why the narrative of rush players vs "possession" players is a false dichotomy.

 

[Menzinger]

how does Kessel excel at zone exits ?

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/8/14/5997057/2013-14-first-half-zone-exits-for-leafs-forwards

Phil Kessel is fantastic at exiting the defensive zone with possession of the puck and his low turnover rate suggests that he isn't doing it by taking excessive risks

The article's stats don't include the current season, but the data seems pretty clear on this. Phil Kessel leads the team by far in zone exists. Perhaps this is yet another example of people's "eye tests" failing them when attempting to analyze a player: some think he's a weak possession player, yet all the data seems to point to the contrary.

 

[LMFAO]

Dan Cleary to Leafs (e4)

 

[Stephen]

And this "rush" aspect is central to puck possession: getting the puck into your opponents end......

Which is why the narrative of rush players vs "possession" players is a false dichotomy.

The dichotomy lies in what Kessel and company choose to do when they have possession, which often entails dancing the perimeter, trying the drop pass or low percentage shot from the half wall, then relax while the other team is busy recovering the puck and running the other way.

 

[hotpaws]

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/8/14/5997057/2013-14-first-half-zone-exits-for-leafs-forwards

The article's stats don't include the current season, but the data seems pretty clear on this. Phil Kessel leads the team by far in zone exists. Perhaps this is yet another example of people's "eye tests" failing them when attempting to analyze a player: some think he's a weak possession player, yet all the data seems to point to the contrary.

what ****ing data ?

Kessel floats high and in open space so yea he can skate it out when fed to him but why is that some freaking great achievement ?

 

[Swayze*]

I like when Kessel taps guys with his stick when he wants the puck

Tap them in the arm or leg "hey I want that puck give it to me"

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I stated this before, but I will state this again:

I don't think i want Mike Babcock to be the next coach of the Leafs. I'm sure he's a very good coach, but he has his issues just like everyone else. He can do a lot with alittle (ie: the Grand Rapid-Wings hybrid team. (to be honest, the only coach I'd want that's currently employed right now is Joe Quennville, and I've wanted him to coach the Leafs since he was coaching the Blues. I love Joe.

Anyway. this is the reason:
I don't want 'today' people. Because too many times that's what we get. We want 'today' people who did things 'yesterday' and has this pedigree, and we think "ooh! this will be the one. I want Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter (Nonis for as long as he's here), to find a tomorrow guy. Now. if that's an assistant coach that's fine, or the biggest, brightest guy in the AHL/CHL. I want a guy that we can create a 10 year + program, with our new-bright management office. I don't want to try to duplicate, re-create, or graft on the

LA Model
Pittsburgh Model
Boston Model
Detroit Model
Chicago Model.

I want the Leafs to develop the Leafs Model. Look for a Roy type, or this Blashill type guy. I sort of want a blank-slate guy (not like an Eakins, but just someone who has really cultivated his craft), and that from tip to top and back again, the Leafs are creating something that other teams will look at and say "yeah, you know, I want that for my team."

Maybe Babcock is that guy and i'm just being verbose for no reason. But he does have his issues -issues, quite frankly I think as a fan base we'd hate (regardless of 'playoffs' and what not). I remember reading/hearing that Babs does want some serious input to the roster.

(shrug) that's my 5 cents on the matter.

Best post in a long time.
About time we figured out what the Leafs model should be, find the coaches and the players who fit each other and also fit that model and take it from there.

 

[T Low]

Not trying to diminish anything Babcock has done as a coach, but this guy isn't going to come in and instantly be a guru who leads this team to the cup. Lets be realistic people, look at the team that he won a cup with, or he won gold medals with. Lidstrom? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? These are three elite players (with Lidstrom being one of the best defenders of his era) that could win a cup with any coach behind the bench who had decent goaltending and depth.

Having a good coach is not a substitute for having good players, and the coach doesn't necessarily turn a roster lacking high end talent into a contender. Do you think Babcock is going to be satisfied with Kessel/Bozak/JVR on the top line? Half of that line will be sent away half way into his first year here.

Agreed.

Babcock will give you a chance at making the playoffs.

He only won one Cup with that incredible Detroit group. Those Olympic Golds were a MAJOR group effort. I could have been the head coach and they still would have won Gold

 

[HockeyCA]

what ****ing data ?

Kessel floats high and in open space so yea he can skate it out when fed to him but why is that some freaking great achievement ?

Exactly.

 

[Menzinger]

The dichotomy lies in what Kessel and company choose to do when they have possession, which often entails dancing the perimeter, trying the drop pass or low percentage shot from the half wall, then relax while the other team is busy recovering the puck and running the other way.

Kessels shooting percentage is relatively consistent at around 13-15% - these so called low percentage shots turn into goals an awful lot of the time.

When he's on the ice the leafs have a much higher chance of getting the puck out and into the other teams end. That's all you can ask for in a winger. Turning Kessel into a grinder isn't going to help anything.

 

[hotpaws]

When he's on the ice the leafs have a much higher chance of getting the puck out and into the other teams end. That's all you can ask for in a winger. Turning Kessel into a grinder isn't going to help anything.

Enough with the spinning , all these so called stats say is which player has a higher % of zone exits when they have possession of the puck . Kessel usually only gets possession when he's high in our zone and in open space so of course he'll have a low t/o rate and a high exit rate . These stats however show nothing about helping your team gain possession which he's very poor at and without possession you can't exist the zone .

The eye test as well as any possession stats show Kessel and his line mates get trapped in their own end constantly and give as many if not more goals than they score .

 

[HockeyCA]

Kessels shooting percentage is relatively consistent at around 13-15% - these so called low percentage shots turn into goals an awful lot of the time.

When he's on the ice the leafs have a much higher chance of getting the puck out and into the other teams end. That's all you can ask for in a winger. Turning Kessel into a grinder isn't going to help anything.

I don't really view it as an "either/or." I think you can be somewhere in the middle. Defensively responsible and produce offence.

 

[I am Canadian]

There is no max salary for a coach right? Leafs have one way to get him there $$$$$$

We better send him a blank cheque.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Kessels shooting percentage is relatively consistent at around 13-15% - these so called low percentage shots turn into goals an awful lot of the time.

When he's on the ice the leafs have a much higher chance of getting the puck out and into the other teams end. That's all you can ask for in a winger. Turning Kessel into a grinder isn't going to help anything.

Yep, Which is why the issue with the Kessel line isn't Kessel himself, But the other two players.

He's never going to be a grinder, But what he is one of the most dangerous offensive players in league and our coaches have no idea how to compliment him in the right way, They just pair him up the most experience centre we have and another skilled winger(who doesn't play as big as he should).

 

[Rare Jewel]

There is no max salary for a coach right? Leafs have one way to get him there $$$$$$

We better send him a blank cheque.

If that's the reason he wants to come then I don't him at all.

I think Babcock's got a hell of a lot more about him then to just have money as the only motivation to come here.

 

[hotpaws]

Yep, Which is why the issue with the Kessel line isn't Kessel himself, But the other two players.

He's never going to be a grinder, But what he is one of the most dangerous offensive players in league and our coaches have no idea how to compliment him in the right way, They just pair him up the most experience centre we have and another skilled winger(who doesn't play as big as he should).

but JVR's exit stats are 2nd best on the team and very close to PK's so according to Menzinger PPP's stats our top line should never be trapped in our end

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I think Babcock's got a hell of a lot more about him then to just have money as the only motivation to come here.

Agreed.

But money helps !!!

A good money x 5 years contract would entice many over to the Leafs.



Change title ?

Sportsnet: Ron MacLean: Babcock watching Leafs ‘carefully’ (click bait).
Sportsnet: Ron MacLean thinks Babcock watching Leafs ‘carefully’ (fair title).

 

[Menzinger]

but JVR's exit stats are 2nd best on the team and very close to PK's so according to Menzinger PPP's stats our top line should never be trapped in our end

And the article also points out the main issues which tend to hamper zone exit efficiency: 1) the top line centres lack of an ability to help 2) the coaching system used by Carlyle makes exiting the zone a lot harder than it has to be.

Look, not everything is perfect out there - the top line should clearly be split up: the general point I'm making though is that claims that Kessel isn't a good possession player are blatantly false.

 

[Atomos2]

OP took the title from the article.

Still very misleading