Post-Game Talk: Roller coaster ride continues: Malkin-less Pens beat Rangers 5-3

[Crosby the Crybaby*]

Devil's Advocate; Who pretty much single-handedly lost us the Flyers series (2012) and would've cost us the Isles series (2013) if he wasn't replaced with Vokoun?

With MAF, it goes both ways. He's calmed down a whole lot since Bales, but you can't bring up the play of 2009 and ignore the play in those two playoff series.

I try not to be biased. I readily acknowledge his struggles earlier, but most on here bring up the Flyers and Isles series but forget everything else he has done, including this season.

 

[IcedCapp]

I try not to be biased. I readily acknowledge his struggles earlier, but most on here bring up the Flyers and Isles series but forget everything else he has done, including this season.

60 games this season is inconsequential compared to playoff serieseseses

 

[Crosby the Crybaby*]

60 games this season is inconsequential compared to playoff serieseseses

I know, just don't forget everything else he has done, ok?

 

[ColePens]

Crawford was taken out for Darling last year because he was so ****ing bad. But it didn't matter because CC came back in and played good enough to get the hawks the Cup. If Fleury did the same thing, those series wouldn't even be mentioned. Problem is... he didn't.

 

[sf expat71]

MAF was so bad that Flyers series, we managed to lose even though their goalie had a historically bad series as well. I mean, that's pretty phenomenal.

 

[IcedCapp]

The thing with Fleury is that he has so many "wtf" plays, even when he's playing well. The third goal today. All of his "playing the puck" plays since the ASG have been another level of "holy ****." It seems like concentration and focus issues.

Goalies are supposed to give up goals. I don't expect a SO every game. That's not my criticism of him.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Crawford was taken out for Darling last year because he was so ****ing bad. But it didn't matter because CC came back in and played good enough to get the hawks the Cup. If Fleury did the same thing, those series wouldn't even be mentioned. Problem is... he didn't.

I still remember Fleury getting in against Boston when Vokoun had a bad game. He let a goal in on the 1st shot he faced and iirc it was right after Sutter scored.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I still remember Fleury getting in against Boston when Vokoun had a bad game. He let a goal in on the 1st shot he faced and iirc it was right after Sutter scored.

Yeah it wasn't a good goal either. Marchand beat him on an unscreened wrist shot from above the circles. The last one was bad too.

 

[Jacob]

Prior to Mike Bales Fleury had a habit of giving up the first shot he faced, no matter how weak of a chance it was. It felt like it'd happen like 10 times per season. Hell, even the first shot he ever faced went in, though it was a breakaway.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The thing that will stick out to me for Fleury's struggles in 2012 and 2013 was him standing on the bench after having just been pulled against the Isles (Cizikas goal maybe?), visibly crying and punching himself in the head.

 

[Pancakes]

The thing with Fleury is that he has so many "wtf" plays, even when he's playing well. The third goal today. All of his "playing the puck" plays since the ASG have been another level of "holy ****." It seems like concentration and focus issues.

Goalies are supposed to give up goals. I don't expect a SO every game. That's not my criticism of him.

Wrap around goals have been an issue with him for years, and it's inexcusable. Mcdonagh had no play but the warp when he was skating in today, and Fleury stupidly tried a sweep check instead of just calmly holding his post.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

60 games this season is inconsequential compared to playoff serieseseses

The sole question is what is the better predictor? His recent play this year, and to be fair the past couple of years or so, or his play in a couple of playoffs several years ago.

I will not pretend to answer that question any better than you can.

I agree, he still wanders from the net more often than he should and gets into trouble because of it, as well as some other things that can infuriate. Not as much as he used to, but still. And there is not a goalie out there that never does a bone headed thing, so his cutting down the volume markedly is a very good move in the right direction.

There is as strong an argument to be made both ways, though I tend to look at the recent body of work myself as a better predictor as those infamous playoff lapses get further and further into the rear view mirror.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think Fleury was playing his best hockey ever before Kunitz dumb-****ed into him and gave him a concussion.

Since he's come back, he's been much worse.

 

[IcedCapp]

Wrap around goals have been an issue with him for years, and it's inexcusable. Mcdonagh had no play but the warp when he was skating in today, and Fleury stupidly tried a sweep check instead of just calmly holding his post.

Yes, I was screaming like a moron "it's a 1-on-4, just stay on the ****ing posts"

 

[tom_servo]

The sole question is what is the better predictor? His recent play this year, and to be fair the past couple of years or so, or his play in a couple of playoffs several years ago.

I will not pretend to answer that question any better than you can.

I agree, he still wanders from the net more often than he should and gets into trouble because of it, as well as some other things that can infuriate. Not as much as he used to, but still. And there is not a goalie out there that never does a bone headed thing, so his cutting down the volume markedly is a very good move in the right direction.

There is as strong an argument to be made both ways, though I tend to look at the recent body of work myself as a better predictor as those infamous playoff lapses get further and further into the rear view mirror.

Problem is he may never have another team that good again. He may be resigned to building a reputation as a sometimes-awesome regular season goalie, and never having a chance to put those Bill Buckner moments to bed. The Cup win will headline his legacy, but playoff implosions will be items #2 through #5.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The thing that will stick out to me for Fleury's struggles in 2012 and 2013 was him standing on the bench after having just been pulled against the Isles (Cizikas goal maybe?), visibly crying and punching himself in the head.

What always got me was him looking like ****ing Bambi in the net.

Insecure Bambi. Not even getting a SO against the Islanders helped, Fleury was the image of no confidence. I felt sorry for him then, I really did, under the anger.

I think Fleury was playing his best hockey ever before Kunitz dumb-****ed into him and gave him a concussion.

Since he's come back, he's been much worse.

Yeah, I don't think he's been the same since the concussion and post ASG was a step down from post concussion. I'd bet that some of it is Sullivan's system vs Johnston's doing something, but ****ing Kunitz got him. He was the team MVP and now it's "he was really good aside from the weak goal or two" a worrying amount of the time, when before those goals were few and far between.

 

[Pancakes]

Yes, I was screaming like a moron "it's a 1-on-4, just stay on the ****ing posts"

Yeah I was cursing like a maniac as well because I assumed that we wouldn't be able to get that 4th goal. Once the Rangers made it 3-3 I thought we were toast, and at best maybe getting an Ot point out of it.

Thankfully I was wrong, but boy was I frustrated at the time.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I hope the Pens hire the best skating coach that money can buy, and attach him/her to Maatta's hip this Summer.

 

[ColePens]

I still remember Fleury getting in against Boston when Vokoun had a bad game. He let a goal in on the 1st shot he faced and iirc it was right after Sutter scored.

Yeah.. like yesterday I can remember the sequence. That was his chance to do exactly what Crawford did last year... and the first shot if I'm not mistaken was like top of the circle on the near side and he just beat Fleury clean. Nothing that should have gone in.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah I was cursing like a maniac as well because I assumed that we wouldn't be able to get that 4th goal. Once the Rangers made it 3-3 I thought we were toast, and at best maybe getting an Ot point out of it.

Thankfully I was wrong, but boy was I frustrated at the time.

I had the same feelings. Glad the bounces went their way today.

I hope the Pens hire the best skating coach that money can buy, and attach him/her to Maatta's hip this Summer.

More than the skating, Maatta has been letting people behind him an awful lot lately. The 2-on-1 in the 3rd period today, not really skating (though he lacks the skating to make up for it), but a totally lapse of awareness.

 

[plaidchuck]

Even with Murray, I can't see MAF gong anywhere any time soon. He is absolutely l o v e d loved by fans and the team.

especially with the way this team puts PR and the family above all.

 

[ColePens]

I hope the Pens hire the best skating coach that money can buy, and attach him/her to Maatta's hip this Summer.

A good example of the plus/minus stat being useless. Maatta is really struggling in transition. I don't know why he and Tangers had such bad gap on goal #3, but he can't get smoked that bad by a defenseman. Good lord. He also let a crap load of odd man breaks up this year because he's not quick enough on the play.

Everywhere else, I really enjoy Maatta's game. He just needs an offseason to get full training in and he will be fine. I remember when he shined in training camp when he first came up and his skating was never this atrocious. He actually had amazing instinct and was joining the rush a lot like Daley. Just oozed confidence. Now he's really not sure of his own skating ability and probably needs a few months to work on it. It's not easy working on that stuff during the season.

Nothing to really be concerned about, but it's painful on some occasions to watch him.

 

[ColePens]

Yes, I was screaming like a moron "it's a 1-on-4, just stay on the ****ing posts"

What was his explanation why he couldn't slide over? It was so awkward. He like slid backward into his own net.

 

[IcedCapp]

What was his explanation why he couldn't slide over? It was so awkward. He like slid backward into his own net.

I don't know if he gave any comment on the play, but yeah, "uh, why is your leg entirely in the net?" If he played it the same way but keeps his leg outside the net, the puck probably doesn't go in.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I hope the Pens hire the best skating coach that money can buy, and attach him/her to Maatta's hip this Summer.

I think he needs a yoga instructor too--he skates very stiffly.