Post-Game Talk: Roller coaster ride continues: Malkin-less Pens beat Rangers 5-3

[Rufus]

We're never patient with any other player but now we have to be with kessel because........?

because we gave up a decent haul to get him and because we know what kind of player Kessel can be. It would be foolish to give up on him after one season

 

[eXile59]

Kessel is third on the team in goals. He hasn't played great, or up to expectations, but he hasn't been completely useless.

 

[Jacob]

Kessel is third on the team in goals. He hasn't played great, or up to expectations, but he hasn't been completely useless.

A few more goals and I think folks would be more inclined to forgive the lackluster board work and defensive plays.

He only has 3 PPGs this season. I noticed that his 30 goal years he averaged 10 PPG per year. They need to find a way to work him into the PP as a shooter more. Maybe putting him in the high slot instead of the half-wall.

 

[FDR]

Kessel is third on the team in goals. He hasn't played great, or up to expectations, but he hasn't been completely useless.

Kessel is always going to be third on this team in goals as long and Sid and Geno are healthy. We have a problem when he stops being third.

 

[mpp9]

The PP should go through Kessel with Malkin out. Now's the perfect time to get his confidence up and involved in the outcome of games.

He's absolutely a better half wall player than Sid.

 

[socko]

If you're looking to get more offense out of Phil, I don't think the best way to do it is take him off the first PP unit and play him on a line with Hagelin and Bonino. Phil is a talent guy that needs to play with other talented players.

 

[tom_servo]

If you're looking to get more offense out of Phil, I don't think the best way to do it is take him off the first PP unit and play him on a line with Hagelin and Bonino. Phil is a talent guy that needs to play with other talented players.

Nah, Phil needs the puck on his stick. He's been underwhelming with Crosby, and with Malkin. He's been awesome across from Hagelin from time to time.

When Phil can make plays on the PP instead of waiting for a pass, I think he's been really good.

 

[Will Hunting]

If you're looking to get more offense out of Phil, I don't think the best way to do it is take him off the first PP unit and play him on a line with Hagelin and Bonino. Phil is a talent guy that needs to play with other talented players.

But but but.. he was supposed to be able to carry his own line. He clearly can´t do that. Horny is better than Kessel anyway, so I wouldn´t touch that. You know what? **** him at this point, he is a complete non factor out there. Might as well bench him, I don´t care about him at all. Once Bennett is ready, I would try him in the TOP6 role.

We need 8 competent wingers and I think that we have them: Horn, Hagelin, BB, Wilson, Rust, Sheary, Kuhnhackl, Simon. Don´t care about the experience, age, money etc.. Kids are getting the job done and it´s beautiful to watch. Just play them. All of them. **** Kunitz and Kessel.

 

[socko]

I do like him with Hagelin. Not as good as Kessel and JVR, but the best the Pens can do. I would like to see those 2 play with Crosby for a while.

 

[plaidchuck]

because we gave up a decent haul to get him and because we know what kind of player Kessel can be. It would be foolish to give up on him after one season

Sounds like the Perron sunken cost issue.

 

[Will Hunting]

I do like him with Hagelin. Not as good as Kessel and JVR, but the best the Pens can do. I would like to see those 2 play with Crosby for a while.

Can´t break Sid and Horny now. They are both playing well. The results would be even better if it wasn´t Kunitz with them. Hagelin-Sid-Horn is a way to go, no doubt about that. There remains no matchup for Kessel then, but he doesn´t deserve to be prioritized over Crosby now. Crosby needs Hagelin and Hornqvist now, our 2 best wingers available.

 

[Whale Mingo]

Yeah, you can't be overrated if everyone thinks you suck. Fleury falls in that category too, he still gets hate from games from half a decade ago.

I do think Lundqvist is crazy overrated though. Lundqvist's stats aren't much above Fleury's in the last few years. He's a mid .920s save% goalie, which isn't the elite numbers that he should be having based on how people talk about him.

I've been following this team longer than anyone here (mostly I bet) and here's the problem with Fleury. Too many fanboys, too many followers who won't ever blame him for his mistakes, too many fans who so badly want him to be the second coming of Jaques Plante. So much so they ignore, to the point of arguing against the opposite, that he is simply an above average goalie who will only ever be as good as the team in front of him.

That causes discord among fans who see him for what he is and makes them go further to the other side and nearly dislike the guy just because all the fanboy love makes them sick when the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Throw in times when Madden is on a three day rant about him being a sure fire hall of famer and you get what you get. I don't often listen to Madden, but I will when someone texts me about nonsense like that and basically bait me into calling the show. I have never called the show and I never will.

Fleury is exactly what he is, an above average goalie who costs his team wins from time to time while keeping them in games they have no business being in other times. It's maddening (pun intended).

The part of the fanbase that loves him always will no matter what, good for them. The part that turns on him quickly remember that he's cost us more playoff wins than he's stolen. He single handedly did something the Columbus franchise couldn't do on its own, keep them in a playoff series.

Yes, he's won a bunch of game. I would hope freaking so playing behind players like Crosby, Letang, Oprik (he was good once), Staal, etc... I mean, I expect a goalie to win games playing behind the talent we've had. Yes, he has a Cup. He also owns the worst single playoff season save % of any goalie to win a Cup. I think it's fair to say the team in front of him was much more responsible for that Cup than he was.

Still, he has those wins and he has that Cup. So many goalies can't say that. If I'm him and getting criticism I just point to the ring and move on.

All that makes MAF a very polarizing individual.

 

[IcedCapp]

I've been following this team longer than anyone here (mostly I bet) and here's the problem with Fleury. Too many fanboys, too many followers who won't ever blame him for his mistakes, too many fans who so badly want him to be the second coming of Jaques Plante. So much so they ignore, to the point of arguing against the opposite, that he is simply an above average goalie who will only ever be as good as the team in front of him.

That causes discord among fans who see him for what he is and makes them go further to the other side and nearly dislike the guy just because all the fanboy love makes them sick when the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Throw in times when Madden is on a three day rant about him being a sure fire hall of famer and you get what you get. I don't often listen to Madden, but I will when someone texts me about nonsense like that and basically bait me into calling the show. I have never called the show and I never will.

Fleury is exactly what he is, an above average goalie who costs his team wins from time to time while keeping them in games they have no business being in other times. It's maddening (pun intended).

The part of the fanbase that loves him always will no matter what, good for them. The part that turns on him quickly remember that he's cost us more playoff wins than he's stolen. He single handedly did something the Columbus franchise couldn't do on its own, keep them in a playoff series.

Yes, he's won a bunch of game. I would hope freaking so playing behind players like Crosby, Letang, Oprik (he was good once), Staal, etc... I mean, I expect a goalie to win games playing behind the talent we've had. Yes, he has a Cup. He also owns the worst single playoff season save % of any goalie to win a Cup. I think it's fair to say the team in front of him was much more responsible for that Cup than he was.

Still, he has those wins and he has that Cup. So many goalies can't say that. If I'm him and getting criticism I just point to the ring and move on.

All that makes MAF a very polarizing individual.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've been following this team longer than anyone here (mostly I bet) and here's the problem with Fleury. Too many fanboys, too many followers who won't ever blame him for his mistakes, too many fans who so badly want him to be the second coming of Jaques Plante. So much so they ignore, to the point of arguing against the opposite, that he is simply an above average goalie who will only ever be as good as the team in front of him.

That causes discord among fans who see him for what he is and makes them go further to the other side and nearly dislike the guy just because all the fanboy love makes them sick when the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Throw in times when Madden is on a three day rant about him being a sure fire hall of famer and you get what you get. I don't often listen to Madden, but I will when someone texts me about nonsense like that and basically bait me into calling the show. I have never called the show and I never will.

Fleury is exactly what he is, an above average goalie who costs his team wins from time to time while keeping them in games they have no business being in other times. It's maddening (pun intended).

The part of the fanbase that loves him always will no matter what, good for them. The part that turns on him quickly remember that he's cost us more playoff wins than he's stolen. He single handedly did something the Columbus franchise couldn't do on its own, keep them in a playoff series.

Yes, he's won a bunch of game. I would hope freaking so playing behind players like Crosby, Letang, Oprik (he was good once), Staal, etc... I mean, I expect a goalie to win games playing behind the talent we've had. Yes, he has a Cup. He also owns the worst single playoff season save % of any goalie to win a Cup. I think it's fair to say the team in front of him was much more responsible for that Cup than he was.

Still, he has those wins and he has that Cup. So many goalies can't say that. If I'm him and getting criticism I just point to the ring and move on.

All that makes MAF a very polarizing individual.

This puts a lot in perspective and once the Pens do move on from Fleury and give Murray the reins, I'm probably going to repost this as the board and other boards are melting down. I know it's kinda ****** to hope for this, but I would rather see Fleury not play that well (so not keeping the Pens in games they shouldn't be in or getting supplanted by Murray) over the next year so the reaction when he's gone is much more tame.

 

[Zen Arcade]

There are a couple of people on here who will defend everything Fleury does, but there are also a couple of people that only show up to rag on him after a tough loss.

I think most people here are fairly even handed about him, aside from the occasional outbursts in GDTs.

 

[Crosby the Crybaby*]

And he was facing off against perhaps one of the most underrated of this generation. Bring Fleury's name up in a hockey conversation and the reaction you'll get is always along the lines of "LOL Fleury is the worst goalie in the league".

Yeah, just look at the 2003 redraft thread on the main board. Some called him a 'slightly above average goaltender'. Just, wow.

 

[tom_servo]

Yeah, just look at the 2003 redraft thread on the main board. Some called him a 'slightly above average goaltender'. Just, wow.

Well what do you want? Except for maybe one year he's never been near the Vezina discussion, and he's known for flaking out in the playoffs. He's had two respectable showings in first round losses, preceded by being benched for Vokoun, and a horrific Flyers series.

I mean, I've been satisfied with his play for a couple years, but the stakes haven't been very high.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Kessel is third on the team in goals. He hasn't played great, or up to expectations, but he hasn't been completely useless.

1 goal in the past 10 games.

He has scored a goal in 16 games out of 68.

He is as useless as a 20 goal scorer can possibly be.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

MAF is what he is. Supremely athletic and talented, but inconsistent and never plays the simple, calm game. You take the bad (scrambling, too many poke check attempts, trying to play the puck) with the good (incredible acrobatic saves, can reach another level on some nights and absolutely steal games we have no business being in).

That being said, if Murray acquits himself throughout the season next year and plays extremely well in a 25-30 game backup role, I'm moving MAF next summer. I'd take the calm, safe, rebound-controlling and techincal goalie in Murray moving forward.

1 goal in the past 10 games.

He has scored a goal in 16 games out of 68.

He is as useless as a 20 goal scorer can possibly be.

For the caliber of player he is/can be, the salary he's making, and the amount this team has invested in him--Kessel's gotta be a Hell of a lot better. Fair and realistic or not, he just has to find a way to be a game changer. Especially not that Geno is injured for the rest of the regular season. He hasn't been for the vast majority of this season aside from a couple of games. That's unacceptable.

He's been no more effective than the bargain bin guys we've gone after for years (Jokinen, Comeau, etc).

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yeah, just look at the 2003 redraft thread on the main board. Some called him a 'slightly above average goaltender'. Just, wow.

If they are comparing him to NHL starting goalies, they would be correct.

 

[Crosby the Crybaby*]

Well what do you want? Except for maybe one year he's never been near the Vezina discussion, and he's known for flaking out in the playoffs. He's had two respectable showings in first round losses, preceded by being benched for Vokoun, and a horrific Flyers series.

I mean, I've been satisfied with his play for a couple years, but the stakes haven't been very high.

But most people don't know how well he plays otherwise.

 

[Rufus]

Sounds like the Perron sunken cost issue.

I think it could end up that way, but Kessel is a better player than Perron was and has shown more consistent production than Perron ever has. With that, I'd take my chances with Kessel turning it around.

 

[Crosby the Crybaby*]

If they are comparing him to NHL starting goalies, they would be correct.

Firstly, let's set the premise. His entire career, or this year, or playoffs, or what?

People like to undervalue him. Who did the 'oh, ****' save on Lidstrom in the last second of game 7 of the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Firstly, let's set the premise. His entire career, or this year, or playoffs, or what?

People like to undervalue him. Who did the 'oh, ****' save on Lidstrom in the last second of game 7 of the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals?

Devil's Advocate; Who pretty much single-handedly lost us the Flyers series (2012) and would've cost us the Isles series (2013) if he wasn't replaced with Vokoun?

With MAF, it goes both ways. He's calmed down a whole lot since Bales, but you can't bring up the play of 2009 and ignore the play in those two playoff series.

 

[burpsalot]

Leafs 1 Detroit 0

You're welcome.