Post-Game Talk: Roller coaster ride continues: Malkin-less Pens beat Rangers 5-3

[Jaded-Fan]

I haven't read the thread so no clue if it was mentioned or not.

But kudos to the team for resilience.

That bone headed move by Kunitz where he ignored the wide open shot and tried a pass completely across the ice through several Ranger players leading directly to a tying goal is the kind of back breaking morale crusher which some teams fold after. The team deserves a lot of credit for battling the entire game and responding to the idiocy of Kunitz with determination rather than letting it get to them.

 

[Shaftception]

The sole question is what is the better predictor? His recent play this year, and to be fair the past couple of years or so, or his play in a couple of playoffs several years ago.

To play devil's advocate, I haven't looked the numbers up to be certain so I could be off, but I doubt it's a coincidence fleury had all those shutouts last season and a .930+ save % early this year playing in johnston's systems, and what seems like a higher propensity for goals against under bylsma and now sullivan.

Could it not be a case of a career average goaltender's (which is what his stats indicate) flaws being masked by a more defensive friendly system? I don't care either way, but see a fair bit of logic in that assumption.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

To play devil's advocate, I haven't looked the numbers up to be certain so I could be off, but I doubt it's a coincidence fleury had all those shutouts last season and a .930+ save % early this year playing in johnston's systems, and what seems like a higher propensity for goals against under bylsma and now sullivan.

Could it not be a case of a career average goaltender's (which is what his stats indicate) flaws being masked by a more defensive friendly system? I don't care either way, but see a fair bit of logic in that assumption.

System certainly effects any goalie. That said, obvious bone headed moves can not be covered up by any system, at least not very much. And he has lessened the number of those overall.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

...More than the skating, Maatta has been letting people behind him an awful lot lately. The 2-on-1 in the 3rd period today, not really skating (though he lacks the skating to make up for it), but a totally lapse of awareness.

For sure. He seems mentally tentative also, making things even harder for him. It just pains me to watch him trudge up the ice.

A good example of the plus/minus stat being useless. Maatta is really struggling in transition. I don't know why he and Tangers had such bad gap on goal #3, but he can't get smoked that bad by a defenseman. Good lord. He also let a crap load of odd man breaks up this year because he's not quick enough on the play.

Everywhere else, I really enjoy Maatta's game. He just needs an offseason to get full training in and he will be fine. I remember when he shined in training camp when he first came up and his skating was never this atrocious. He actually had amazing instinct and was joining the rush a lot like Daley. Just oozed confidence. Now he's really not sure of his own skating ability and probably needs a few months to work on it. It's not easy working on that stuff during the season.

Nothing to really be concerned about, but it's painful on some occasions to watch him.

Yup. I hate to Rag on him but he's had some shifts lately where he looks like he's pulling a sled.

Maybe when you take everything into account, he's hitting the wall physically and mentally. He was run into the ground his first season, missed the offseason for shoulder surgery, thyroid cancer, another shoulder surgery, and now we have him eating big minutes. I wouldn't mind them cutting back his minutes a little down the stretch.

 

[ColePens]

^^ Throw Culllen in the mix of guys who need a slight rest, too. Guy has been great for us this season and was on fire with Rust today, but man he definitely needs some limited minutes. We have really asked him to do too much.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Give me a Maatta-Dumo pairing and find a 1st pairing guy for Letang this summer.

Maatta might be a legit 1st pairing guy, but his skating and rookie-like mistakes with regard to judgement are hindering his play.

 

[ColePens]

So move the Daley/Dumo pairing? I think those two have some awesome chemistry going right now. I wouldn't want them moved.

I would be ecstatic with a potential of 5 defenders such as: UFA top 4, Letang, Maatta, Dumo, & Daley. I just don't understand why we have Schultz if DP was doing just fine. Cole/Lovejoy go.

I do not understand letting DP sit when he was playing his finest hockey yet.

 

[Will Hunting]

So move the Daley/Dumo pairing? I think those two have some awesome chemistry going right now. I wouldn't want them moved.

I would be ecstatic with a potential of 5 defenders such as: UFA top 4, Letang, Maatta, Dumo, & Daley. I just don't understand why we have Schultz if DP was doing just fine. Cole/Lovejoy go.

I do not understand letting DP sit when he was playing his finest hockey yet.

Yeah, DP was extremely solid, yet he is in the pressbox now. That said, Schultz is not bad, he is doing fine in our system. Cole is better than at the start of the season, but Pouliot needs to play over him. Also, I wouldn´t even mind benching Maatta now and giving him some rest + getting another look at Pouliot that way. But in the longrun, Pouliot needs to play and he needs to play over Cole.

PS: There is Lovejoy too, we don´t need him at all but it will be interesting what happens with him.

 

[Tumty]

I've been following this team longer than anyone here (mostly I bet) and here's the problem with Fleury. Too many fanboys, too many followers who won't ever blame him for his mistakes, too many fans who so badly want him to be the second coming of Jaques Plante. So much so they ignore, to the point of arguing against the opposite, that he is simply an above average goalie who will only ever be as good as the team in front of him.

That causes discord among fans who see him for what he is and makes them go further to the other side and nearly dislike the guy just because all the fanboy love makes them sick when the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Throw in times when Madden is on a three day rant about him being a sure fire hall of famer and you get what you get. I don't often listen to Madden, but I will when someone texts me about nonsense like that and basically bait me into calling the show. I have never called the show and I never will.

Fleury is exactly what he is, an above average goalie who costs his team wins from time to time while keeping them in games they have no business being in other times. It's maddening (pun intended).

The part of the fanbase that loves him always will no matter what, good for them. The part that turns on him quickly remember that he's cost us more playoff wins than he's stolen. He single handedly did something the Columbus franchise couldn't do on its own, keep them in a playoff series.

Yes, he's won a bunch of game. I would hope freaking so playing behind players like Crosby, Letang, Oprik (he was good once), Staal, etc... I mean, I expect a goalie to win games playing behind the talent we've had. Yes, he has a Cup. He also owns the worst single playoff season save % of any goalie to win a Cup. I think it's fair to say the team in front of him was much more responsible for that Cup than he was.

Still, he has those wins and he has that Cup. So many goalies can't say that. If I'm him and getting criticism I just point to the ring and move on.

All that makes MAF a very polarizing individual.

Yup, and Pens has been easy to play for MAF? Im not even fan of him. But i can imagine we are one of the worst teams for the goalie. Odd man rushes, ****** defence, over attacking etc.. Lets say that, Fluery will need to work very hard for every win.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Since Sullivan was hired, and after the Pens lost his first four games, the Pens have gone 20-13, meaning that they have won 60 percent of the games played. The Pens have scored 108 goals, which is 3.12 goals per game.

Only two teams have averaged more than 3 goals a game all year, Dallas and Washington, and Pittsburgh is right in their ball park over the last 33 games:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?repor...6&gameType=2&sort=goalsForPerGame&aggregate=0

They in fact have raised their goals for overall to 9th overall. That is with all the significant injuries.

This team could surprise some teams, especially since they are taken lightly by everyone, including us. You can not look past any team in the playoffs, and especially one that has been playing, statistically at least, way above what their record is for approaching half the season.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

So move the Daley/Dumo pairing? I think those two have some awesome chemistry going right now. I wouldn't want them moved.

I would be ecstatic with a potential of 5 defenders such as: UFA top 4, Letang, Maatta, Dumo, & Daley. I just don't understand why we have Schultz if DP was doing just fine. Cole/Lovejoy go.

I do not understand letting DP sit when he was playing his finest hockey yet.

It's just a weird situation. There was no need to bring in Schultz with Daley and DP.

But I like the idea of a Maatta-Dumo shutdown pairing moving forward. Of course, it's all assuming we land a 1st pairing guy to play with Letang which is a huge assumption.

I'd have had Dumo with Letang all season anyway.

 

[Human]

I've been following this team longer than anyone here (mostly I bet) and here's the problem with Fleury. Too many fanboys, too many followers who won't ever blame him for his mistakes, too many fans who so badly want him to be the second coming of Jaques Plante. So much so they ignore, to the point of arguing against the opposite, that he is simply an above average goalie who will only ever be as good as the team in front of him.

That causes discord among fans who see him for what he is and makes them go further to the other side and nearly dislike the guy just because all the fanboy love makes them sick when the truth is actually somewhere in the middle.

Throw in times when Madden is on a three day rant about him being a sure fire hall of famer and you get what you get. I don't often listen to Madden, but I will when someone texts me about nonsense like that and basically bait me into calling the show. I have never called the show and I never will.

Fleury is exactly what he is, an above average goalie who costs his team wins from time to time while keeping them in games they have no business being in other times. It's maddening (pun intended).

The part of the fanbase that loves him always will no matter what, good for them. The part that turns on him quickly remember that he's cost us more playoff wins than he's stolen. He single handedly did something the Columbus franchise couldn't do on its own, keep them in a playoff series.

Yes, he's won a bunch of game. I would hope freaking so playing behind players like Crosby, Letang, Oprik (he was good once), Staal, etc... I mean, I expect a goalie to win games playing behind the talent we've had. Yes, he has a Cup. He also owns the worst single playoff season save % of any goalie to win a Cup. I think it's fair to say the team in front of him was much more responsible for that Cup than he was.

Still, he has those wins and he has that Cup. So many goalies can't say that. If I'm him and getting criticism I just point to the ring and move on.

All that makes MAF a very polarizing individual.

Aye.

He's also the best goalie ever inside of a locker-room...

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I'm optimistic with Maatta. Once he gets a healthy offseason, he should spend that time on a power skating course.

Right now, all his time off exposed the issue of his skating and made the problem worse. He also seems very inconsistent and I attribute that to him likely still not being quite 100% compared to where he was before the cancer.

My one cause for concern is that the organization is incompetent enough to fail to realize that he needs a power skating course.

Fleury didn't help win the cup? Bad post season save % in 09 or not, he held the Red Wings to 2 goals total in games 6 and 7. He stole wins 3 and 4 in the cup finals. How many goalies can make that claim?

 

[Malkinstheman]

I think acquiring a guy from UFA will be exactly what this organization (especially under shero) has been doing wrong. Lets get yet another player to block the young guys. Poliout isnt a top-4 guy yet but he will never become one if we keep acquiring more and more players to play over him. Its time for the team to sink or swim due to their youngsters not veterans.

Big assumption but if Maata can regain form, long term this doesnt look to bad:

Dumo-Letang

Pooh-Maata (Both are Ld so thats also an issue)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So move the Daley/Dumo pairing? I think those two have some awesome chemistry going right now. I wouldn't want them moved.

I would be ecstatic with a potential of 5 defenders such as: UFA top 4, Letang, Maatta, Dumo, & Daley. I just don't understand why we have Schultz if DP was doing just fine. Cole/Lovejoy go.

I do not understand letting DP sit when he was playing his finest hockey yet.

Because the club needs to justify paying a 3rd round pick for a player who is, at best, redundant on the current roster with guys like Pouliot, Letang, and Daley and, at worst, is a defensive liability who needs to be sheltered.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

^^ Throw Culllen in the mix of guys who need a slight rest, too. Guy has been great for us this season and was on fire with Rust today, but man he definitely needs some limited minutes. We have really asked him to do too much.

Agreed. You could tell that the 2C time was taking its toll.

If Geno hadn't gone down we could have killed 2 birds with one stone. Give Cullen a game or 2 off and go with 7D to help limit Maatta's minutes.

 

[MtlPenFan]

So move the Daley/Dumo pairing? I think those two have some awesome chemistry going right now. I wouldn't want them moved.

I would be ecstatic with a potential of 5 defenders such as: UFA top 4, Letang, Maatta, Dumo, & Daley. I just don't understand why we have Schultz if DP was doing just fine. Cole/Lovejoy go.

I do not understand letting DP sit when he was playing his finest hockey yet.

Just wait til Lovejoy comes back. Pouliot won't ever again see the light of day.

Let's face it, it's Despres all over again. For whatever reason they have it in for certain players and just can't wait to find a reason to sit them.

Im sure once they trade Pouliot we'll find out that he spent too much time at the track or something.

 

[deakka]

Yeah, DP was extremely solid, yet he is in the pressbox now. That said, Schultz is not bad, he is doing fine in our system. Cole is better than at the start of the season, but Pouliot needs to play over him. Also, I wouldn´t even mind benching Maatta now and giving him some rest + getting another look at Pouliot that way. But in the longrun, Pouliot needs to play and he needs to play over Cole.

PS: There is Lovejoy too, we don´t need him at all but it will be interesting what happens with him.

Lovejoy are probably geting back for the playoffs and put right in the lineup. Then he will be on the ice for 95% of our goals against. Just like last playoff.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Just wait til Lovejoy comes back. Pouliot won't ever again see the light of day.

Let's face it, it's Despres all over again. For whatever reason they have it in for certain players and just can't wait to find a reason to sit them.

Im sure once they trade Pouliot we'll find out that he spent too much time at the track or something.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

Very good execution and team support hockey. As the season goes on I think we start to see some of the details people and players speak about regarding sully translate in consistency on the ice.

I did think the Rangers had their b- game today. Whole thing felt a little flat. Part of that is nbc. The garden couldn't have been as quiet as it seemed on tv.

Biggest plus for me was winning a back and forth game against a good team. Seems like years since we had the mental strength to see a result like this. Recent seasons felt more like, if fleury let's two in its over. If a team ties it at any point it's over. If it's Sunday....its over

 

[Shady Machine]

It's just a weird situation. There was no need to bring in Schultz with Daley and DP.

But I like the idea of a Maatta-Dumo shutdown pairing moving forward. Of course, it's all assuming we land a 1st pairing guy to play with Letang which is a huge assumption.

I'd have had Dumo with Letang all season anyway.

The 'need' to bring in Schultz was cheap depth with low risk/high reward. It sucks for Pouliot, but it's looking pretty good so far. His offensive game is more polished in the NHL than Pouliot. It also opens up the opportunity to move Pouliot in a trade (or Daley for that matter), if one is available.

 

[Shady Machine]

Just wait til Lovejoy comes back. Pouliot won't ever again see the light of day.

Let's face it, it's Despres all over again. For whatever reason they have it in for certain players and just can't wait to find a reason to sit them.

Im sure once they trade Pouliot we'll find out that he spent too much time at the track or something.

I personally hope they go with 2 3rd pairings down the stretch and pick the better of the 2.

Pouliot-Lovejoy or Cole-Schultz.

Lovejoy and Schultz are both RD so you can't really play Lovejoy-Schultz together.

This isn't really similar to the Despres situation. Despres was blocked by old, mediocre veterans. Pouliot is being blocked by a slightly older version of himself.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The 'need' to bring in Schultz was cheap depth with low risk/high reward. It sucks for Pouliot, but it's looking pretty good so far. His offensive game is more polished in the NHL than Pouliot. It also opens up the opportunity to move Pouliot in a trade (or Daley for that matter), if one is available.

Yeah. I guess when someone who has shown as much talent/potential as Schultz has becomes available for a 3rd, you kinda jump on it.

I wouldn't mind moving any of the three, but I think Pouliot's got the most value and is the least NHL-caliber at the moment. Not to say he's seemed far off.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah. I guess when someone who has shown as much talent/potential as Schultz has becomes available for a 3rd, you kinda jump on it.

I wouldn't mind moving any of the three, but I think Pouliot's got the most value and is the least NHL-caliber at the moment. Not to say he's seemed far off.

Or you can keep all 3 but that means Pouliot and Schultz need to become more polished defensively first. I suppose next year you could go:

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Schultz
Pouliot-Daley

Something like that. It's definitely soft, but the puck shouldn't be in our zone for extended periods of time with those puck movers.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah. I guess when someone who has shown as much talent/potential as Schultz has becomes available for a 3rd, you kinda jump on it.

I wouldn't mind moving any of the three, but I think Pouliot's got the most value and is the least NHL-caliber at the moment. Not to say he's seemed far off.

Aside from the low cost depth solution, and the Pens certainly are a team that need injury insurance, Shultz also looked to be an upgrade on the PP manning the point. It will take seeing him there more often, but it certainly provides more options.