Rogers Place Construction :: Part V: Mod warning #846

[Replacement*]

It makes sense to attach the community rink so that it can easily be used as a practice facility for the Oilers and OilKings.

I'm being somewhat facetious.

Two bad it couldn't have been "attached" to the underground parkade.

This community arena is deplorable for a downtown build. Really about the lamest community arena build the city has put out since the Millwoods arena addition. Actually those are even somewhat better and built during the "anything goes" time frame in this city.

I thought as per Mandel we were saying no to junk builds now.

 

[Replacement*]

when is the official unveiling? shouldn;t we wait for judgement for when we can see the finished product?

Several people who have already seen it are commenting, not well of it.

The roof is now decorated in corrugated steel and steel girders. That's it. No wood, no beautiful roof as in earlier renders.

The public views are Jan 16. I'll be there.

 

[Senor Catface]

I'm very upset that the new renderings have less people in the crowd.

 

[guymez]

lol of course where else would they cut costs.

Do you really think this will be the only cost cutting surprise?

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

If they want it to look better, they've gotta put in the money. Simple as that. City doesn't want to put in more, province doesn't want to put in any at all. And good luck with Katz ponying up. So be it. You get what you pay for.

 

[Timo]

People care that the community rink doesn't have a wood ceiling...?

I think it's fair to say that the public should have been made aware of the changes before they happened, but the media freak out is really sensationalizing a cost saving measure.

Just think of the outlash if the changes weren't made but tax payers were on the hook for another 10 million dollars.

 

[Replacement*]

People care that the community rink doesn't have a wood ceiling...?

I think it's fair to say that the public should have been made aware of the changes before they happened, but the media freak out is really sensationalizing a cost saving measure.

Just think of the outlash if the changes weren't made but tax payers were on the hook for another 10 million dollars.

More attractive cladding and laminate wood roof costs 10M bucks? lol, the whole Community rink is 21M in total.

This Arena district is supposed to be a world class offering in design and with the Arena and Winter gardens coming in around 600M. Rather than have the whole project look enticing this Box like drab community arena covers up almost one whole side of what is supposed to be an attractive looking project. Blocking the side ironically that is closest to City Hall.

Maybe its just me but building what is supposed to be a stunning architectural build and tacking a square community box to it is underwhelming to begin with. That the Community arena upon final completion is this drab is disappointing.

 

[Replacement*]

If they want it to look better, they've gotta put in the money. Simple as that. City doesn't want to put in more, province doesn't want to put in any at all. And good luck with Katz ponying up. So be it. You get what you pay for.

No, we paid the piper anyway. This was contractor cost cutting.

Theres no value added here, theres no money coming back.

We were sold one thing and got a lesser finished product. Even capacity is allegedly drawn back from an estimated 2K to 800 which sucks balls for Grant MacEwan who will have their Griffins hockey team playing there. Afairc GM even put up some money towards this build. I could be corrected on that point.

Really on C2E and anywhere else nobody is defending this Community Arena as finalized. The **** is hitting the fan and City Hall already hearing it.

When you got Ken Cantor from Qualico/ EPCOR calling it "disappointing" it isn't just anonymous people online saying so. He's one of the foremost positive believers this city has and he raised multiple concerns with how this project has been finalized and particularly that the public didn't get what was sold them. He went as far as saying this impacts even further the lack of trust Edmontonians have with City Admin.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Looks like the old "Bait and switch" has taken place. Very dissappointing. Wonder what cuts....errr... design modifications we'll see with the arena and the Ice District. Have a feeling that this isn't the first disappointment Edmontonians will feel regarding this project.

 

[Section337]

A true community rink would have a wood ceiling which frosts up when it is cold outside.

 

[McHilman]

Looks like the old "Bait and switch" has taken place. Very dissappointing. Wonder what cuts....errr... design modifications we'll see with the arena and the Ice District. Have a feeling that this isn't the first disappointment Edmontonians will feel regarding this project.

This sounds like the City is not wanting to put in the money for the extras for the community rink which has no effect on what Katz is/will be putting into Ice District or arena. If I had to guess, it's due to the monies that the other levels of government promised but did not deliver on.

 

[Del Preston]

Even capacity is allegedly drawn back from an estimated 2K to 800 which sucks balls for Grant MacEwan who will have their Griffins hockey team playing there.

McHilman might be able to correct me here but I believe capacity was always going to be 1,000. This has the old renderings and the listed capacity:

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/projects_redevelopment/community-skating-rink.aspx

http://icedistrictproperties.com/amenities/rogers-place.html

 

[Replacement*]

A true community rink would have a wood ceiling which frosts up when it is cold outside.

The wood laminate is INTERIOR finishing which was not used meaning the interior roof is a bare bones corrugated steel and girders finish befitting a warehouse in an industrial area of town..

 

[Replacement*]

McHilman might be able to correct me here but I believe capacity was always going to be 1,000. This has the old renderings and the listed capacity:

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/projects_redevelopment/community-skating-rink.aspx

http://icedistrictproperties.com/amenities/rogers-place.html

I heard on C2E it was 2k originally. Its hard to get the past details as all official sites are now updated with current info.

Wish I took page captures..

in anycase its Ian O'Donnell of DECL that is citing the original 2K capacity. He was involved in a lot of council meetins throughout the negotiation and had some insider knowledge. I trust he knows what he's talking about with the 2K original figure.

Today, 09:29 AM #2458
IanO
Addicted to C2E


Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Downtown Edmonton Default

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FAR from a dump, it will still be acceptable. 800 I believe, 2000 was the original idea.

The unfortunate thing is the initial rendering and the amount of deviation from it. I expect changes, but not a complete redesign.

I also am a bit upset at the comment about how the design really didn't matter, that just having a community rink was the important part...
__________________
www.decl.org

 

[Replacement*]

Some information on what the issues are;

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=782672&binId=1.1203428&playlistPageNum=1

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=781911

Rick Davis, city CEO for the arena project is being taken apart for his comments that the design essentially doesn't really matter and just that its a community rink in the location and meets what the public wanted. Him ironically stating that from the confines of the overpriced City Hall just outside the luxurious council chambers... deep irony. As many pundits around the city are pointing out.

The reality here is the public was clearly sold one thing, and given another.

 

[Section337]

The wood laminate is INTERIOR finishing which was not used meaning the interior roof is a bare bones corrugated steel and girders finish befitting a warehouse in an industrial area of town..

Umm, yeah, I realize it wasn't going to be the exterior. I was making a funny about all the wood roofs in many of the small town community arenas I grew up in.

 

[Replacement*]

Umm, yeah, I realize it wasn't going to be the exterior. I was making a funny about all the wood roofs in many of the small town community arenas I grew up in.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[CanmoreMike]

No, we paid the piper anyway. This was contractor cost cutting.

Theres no value added here, theres no money coming back.

We were sold one thing and got a lesser finished product. Even capacity is allegedly drawn back from an estimated 2K to 800 which sucks balls for Grant MacEwan who will have their Griffins hockey team playing there. Afairc GM even put up some money towards this build. I could be corrected on that point.

Really on C2E and anywhere else nobody is defending this Community Arena as finalized. The **** is hitting the fan and City Hall already hearing it.

When you got Ken Cantor from Qualico/ EPCOR calling it "disappointing" it isn't just anonymous people online saying so. He's one of the foremost positive believers this city has and he raised multiple concerns with how this project has been finalized and particularly that the public didn't get what was sold them. He went as far as saying this impacts even further the lack of trust Edmontonians have with City Admin.

This.

When the City is lagging behind in major projects and failing outright on others to have a contentious project like this go through, where there is still bad blood in the waters, and have this bait and switch is disappointing.


Hoping that the complaints are moot or that the city/Katz finds a few bucks to spruce the thing up and make up for hard feelings. We need to see this project succeed, regardless of our feelings when negotiations originally got underway. A $600M embarrassment is not good for this city.

 

[McHilman]

McHilman might be able to correct me here but I believe capacity was always going to be 1,000. This has the old renderings and the listed capacity:

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/projects_redevelopment/community-skating-rink.aspx

http://icedistrictproperties.com/amenities/rogers-place.html

I don't ever remember the number being anywhere near 2,000. I have 1,008 in my head and all the articles I've searched for say ~1,000.

 

[rboomercat90]

Not a big surprise. This project has been screaming **** you to the average Edmontonion for a while now. Massive ticket hikes. Big parking increases throughout downtown on game nights whether you're going to a game or not. Proposed cover charge for the winter garden and now downgrade on the community arena which were supposed to be the selling points to regular joe. Can't wait for the next thing. Bye the way, when's the cladding supposed to be finished on the exterior?

 

[McHilman]

Winter Garden cover charge is only a rumor, big parking increases? Please elaborate on this, lots around Rexall are $20-25+ now, you really think downtown will be more?

Interior update:

http://www.rogersplace.com/rogers-place-live-view-3/

 

[rboomercat90]

Big difference between Rexall and Downtown is that when people were going to that area on game night they were going to the game. The parking they were paying for was for the game. There wasn't anything else to do there. This isn't the case downtown. Arts District, movie theatres, restaurants, etc. With Katz leasing most of the parking in the area and monopolizing it the prices will go up too, don't you think? I don't care what it costs for Oilers fans to park. They support this and it's for them, they can pay whatever it costs. It's the other businesses in the area and their patrons that get the shaft here.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

Winter Garden cover charge is only a rumor, big parking increases? Please elaborate on this, lots around Rexall are $20-25+ now, you really think downtown will be more?

He's comparing "game night downtown parking rates" vs "normal downtown parking rates".

For example, it currently costs $3 to park at Edmonton Center after 6pm. $20 would be a pretty big increase.

 

[rboomercat90]

He's comparing "game night downtown parking rates" vs "normal downtown parking rates".

For example, it currently costs $3 to park at Edmonton Center after 6pm. $20 would be a pretty big increase.

Thank you. I thought I was making this clear but I guess I wasn't. I was just trying to make the point that there have always been other things that people have done downtown before the rink was built that will now be more difficult to do. The offset to that was supposed to be things like the Winter Garden and the Community rink. We have heard rumors that the Winter Garden will have a cover charge, we'll find out soon enough.

To see the city pull a bait and switch on the community area is really disappointing. To hear that clown Rick Davis say it doesn't matter what's in it just that they built something is infuriating. His attitude was condescending. Just be happy you're getting anything at all. There was plenty of opposition to this project and those renderings in 2012 swayed a lot of people. To hear that the wooden ceiling (the biggest selling point to me) was scrapped very early on without telling the public is pretty sketchy to me.

 

[McHilman]

Prices may go up from where they are now in downtown but there is also A LOT more parking which means competition. More people going downtown is a good thing, this adds vibrancy and energy which in turn brings people's money downtown and stimulates growth.

You say other business will get the shaft? More like they will benefit, restaurants, bars, hotels, etc will all benefit by having another 15,000-20,000 people near them for 150-200 nights a year. Why do you think businesses are clamouring for spots near the arena to build restaurants, bars, condos, etc? They know that people are going to spend time and money before and after games which benefits everyone and having your parking rate increase a little is a fair trade. One could argue that bringing in 4,000 more stalls will cause a drop in parking rates as it floods the market with more product (note that the City Centre mall is also adding 300+ stalls as well)

At any rate, there will be 13,500+ stalls within a 10 minute/800 m walk of the arena (4,000 being built by Katz), more than double that there is at Rexall and a lot will be covered/underground parking (much better and closer than the current parking).

http://icedistrictproperties.com/news/maps-graphics.html

People will also live and work near the arena negating the need to drive to the game/park as they will already be near the arena/can walk to the game. This is also true for out of town guest that are already staying downtown at hotels. There will also be more mass transit links to get to the game, especially once the Millwoods line is completed resulting in even less people needing to drive to the game.

I think parking on the east side of downtown near the Citadel, AGA, Winspear, etc won't be affected as much as they are on the further side (1 km away and outside the 13,500+ stalls mentioned above). Businesses and people will need to adjust at the beginning to see what works but I can't see everyone jacking their prices too much as there is simply too much supply and other means of transportation to get to the events.