Post-Game Talk: Rock Bottom, and Wrestlemania isn’t until Saturday

[Arpeggio]

Nuge is becoming a problem, it's pretty unacceptable to go 20 games without an even strength goal playing with the guys that he plays with.

 

[Duke74]

Unfair to Draisaitl???

Saddled with leftovers???

It's part of being on a team. He gets lots of shifts with the best players. PP, after PK, end of periods, Late in games, etc...

Jeez these guys have been called dogshit, garbage and leftovers, scraps. That's probably what some would be calling Hyman if he wasn't with 97.

Honestly...Knob should move Hopkins to center Leo. Give McDavid one of Henrique, Foegele or Mcleod... I think it would make the top line better.

I completely agree with your latter statement. Nuge seems wasted on McDavid's line and will be so much more help to Draisaitl. The real engine on that line is the McDavid-Hyman connection, which makes RNH superfluous. When Draisaitl won the Ross, Lindsay, and Hart, RNH was on his line. Why not try to reignite that spark?

 

[guymez]

I think he's referring to some of the terrible things that people say in the GDT. It's one thing to say a player is playing terribly (as Draisaitl did last evening), and this is totally fair. My issue is when a poster personally insults a player. GDTs are a place where a lot of "fans" cross the line into the latter territory. Calling Nurse brain dead, Skinner an idiot, etc. is an example of what makes these threads almost unreadable. And that's not even counting the adds on mobile HF.

Okay...thats totally fair.
I never even went into that GDT but I have seen some emotionally over the top stuff in some of the other GDT's so that wouldnt surprise me.
Thats why I dont participate in the GDT's all that often.

That's fair, but even that being said, Draisaitl's contributions far outweigh his blunders (notwithstanding last night). He's not immune from criticism but I think the hate is way out of proportion to what he brings to the table in terms of his net contributions.

Absolutely agree with you on that point.
I think part of the overreaction has to do with a higher standard being applied. That being said I just have to take your word and @oXo Cube 's word that the GDT was completely out of control and over the top.

I just dont want any and all criticism to be lumped into the hater/unaccpetable catagory.
There are some posters that have a zero tolorance to any criticism of Draisaitl regardless of how bad he played simply because of the offence he provides.
I absolutely dont agree with that position. Every player has to be accountable IMO and the highest paid players even more so because they strongly influence the direction of the entire team.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Oilers are never going to have an elite D and goaltending. I don't think they ever did in their history really, the Oilers have been built from forward on down with a few exceptions so with this being the case, the Oilers need strength in numbers up front so when they're not getting contributions from support players there's always an incredible burden placed on two players to produce all the time. Their GA is actually pretty decent in the regular season but it seems to crater against playoff teams so they need the offense to outscore it and they just get enough from enough people.

Guys like Ryan and Janmark are such a tiny symptom of a much bigger issue and that is RNH, Kane and McLeod. You can't have a top line winger go scoreless for this long playing with generational talent. RNH pulls his "just sort of there" act way too often in a position where he should be scoring goals, he doesn't use the middle of the ice and he doesn't bear down on gifts from McDavid. Kane hasn't scored a goal since the Lincoln administration, you can't have a top 6/9 winger go absent for that long. McLeod provides nothing when not playing with Draisaitl this season, same with Foegele really.

You can have a 4th line that can't score as long as they're defensively sound and your 3rd line can score. The Oilers have a 3rd AND 4th line that can't score which isn't going to cut it come playoff time. They've kept GA down at a decent rate but you're not going to win many playoff series with them throwing up blanks on the scoresheet most of the time, depth is usually the decider in playoff series and the Oilers come up short in that regard even though they usually have the advantage with the top line.

The old and slow thing has been an issue all season as they've somehow found a way to get older and slower as the season has wore on but that's a whole other wall of text for another post

Sorry but what? Fuhr, Cujo, Coffey, Pronger etc They don't get better. They don't get more elite than that.

Agreed with the rest of your post but what a way to start it. hehe.

The reality of this team right now is its McD, Drai, Booch, Hyman, Ekholm. Thats the core that are involved.

Meanwhile lil Nugey has 3pts in last 10GP and hardly anybody says anything about it. he has 1 single EV pt in last 10 games. The guy hassn't scored an EV goal in over 6weeks. Kane hasn't scored a goal in months. I like your quote though.

I like Henrique though. An unsung 4 goals since being here outscoring all of Nuge, Kane, etc.

 

[oXo Cube]

Ah I see. The older fans are the problem with the Oilers. Gotcha.

I suppose anyone over 50 should just be shuffled off to some enviro friendly gas chamber?

Dinosaur in this context doesn't even have anything to do with a person's physical age but I know you love to feel attacked over this so I'll leave it at that.

Interesting. I find it to be the younger crowd that think VD is better than he is.

Anyways I would rather have a bunch of loyal dinosaur fans than bandwagoners like the Canucks.

Every fanbase is better than Vancouver . Even Leafs fans are smarter and I'm not trolling with this comment.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Interesting. I find it to be the younger crowd that think VD is better than he is.

Anyways I would rather have a bunch of loyal dinosaur fans than bandwagoners like the Canucks.

Thank you, I think!

 

[oXo Cube]

Nuge is becoming a problem, it's pretty unacceptable to go 20 games without an even strength goal playing with the guys that he plays with.

Not to pick on you Arpeggio as my issue is more general, but this is a decent micro example of what I'm trying to get at @guymez. Nuge doesn't score an even strength goal for a full quarter season and he's 'becoming a problem.' Drai has a bad turnover in a game and multiple people in this very thread say they won't even be upset when he leaves.

A bad giveaway is a bad giveaway but certain players are picked on to a way more extreme degree than others and generally in the incorrect direction.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Unfair to Draisaitl???

Saddled with leftovers???

It's part of being on a team. He gets lots of shifts with the best players. PP, after PK, end of periods, Late in games, etc...

Jeez these guys have been called dogshit, garbage and leftovers, scraps. That's probably what some would be calling Hyman if he wasn't with 97.

Honestly...Knob should move Hopkins to center Leo. Give McDavid one of Henrique, Foegele or Mcleod... I think it would make the top line better.

Thos post and your other just riddled with lack of knowledge about the team.

"Leo can't drive a line" - apparently you've been in 2 comas. The 2x McD was hurt for long periods. Drai/Hall was dominant for months. The 2nd time RNH/Drai/Yamo were the best line in the NHL for 2months

Also, RNH at center? It's pretty proven at this point RNH is waaaaay more effective on wing

 

[McDNicks17]

Nuge is becoming a problem, it's pretty unacceptable to go 20 games without an even strength goal playing with the guys that he plays with.

Nuge has basically the same 5v5 points per game as Brown over the last 30 games haha.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not to pick on you Arpeggio as my issue is more general, but this is a decent micro example of what I'm trying to get at @guymez. Nuge doesn't score an even strength goal for a full quarter season and he's 'becoming a problem.' Drai has a bad turnover in a game and multiple people in this very thread say they won't even be upset when he leaves.

A bad giveaway is a bad giveaway but certain players are picked on to a way more extreme degree than others and generally in the incorrect direction.

Say it. Nuge made one backcheck strip weeks ago and people were talking about that one plays for several games. McDrai make several plays a night and people constantly questioning their leadership and play.

Well what are the leading. Ghost of Kane, Ghost of Nuge. Nurse, Perry, anybody else old that Holland has trotted in here. There isn't a ton of devout followers here. On the team only Booch, Hyman, Foegele this season are exceeding expectations or delivering. Nobody else is.

McDrai want to win so badly it hurts but the org has put a team around them that is probably not good enough to get it done and if the Oilers were to do it McDrai would have to have another legend SC playoffs performances.

NOBODY in the world has as much traction in games for their teams than McDrai. They do it all.

Nuge even has a longstanding A on his chest. Whats it stand for? Where's his leadership by example? Theres no way this player is bringing his best or anything close to it. Playing a whole season with McD and first unit PP all season and he has 17 goals. 40% of what he got just last season.

Theres essentially 5 players on this team that are earnestly here contributing consistently to the top levels expected of them.. McD, Drai, Booch, Hyman, Ekholm.

Anybody else can look in the mirror.

Nuge has basically the same 5v5 points per game as Brown over the last 30 games haha.

Same EV pts as Foegele on the season last time I checked. I'd like his defenders to tell me how thats even possible playing the majority of time with the best player in the world who is on a 100assist season heater.

We have here a superstar that will have fed over 100 goals on the season, many of those EV. Nuge sitting there with 17G's my..

I guess Brown has helped out here in creating another bottom expectation here so others aren't embarrassed about such production.

 

[guymez]

Not to pick on you Arpeggio as my issue is more general, but this is a decent micro example of what I'm trying to get at @guymez. Nuge doesn't score an even strength goal for a full quarter season and he's 'becoming a problem.' Drai has a bad turnover in a game and multiple people in this very thread say they won't even be upset when he leaves.

A bad giveaway is a bad giveaway but certain players are picked on to a way more extreme degree than others and generally in the incorrect direction.

Well...I guess I should jump back in.
Your charactorization of Drais game last night is inaccurate.
Draisaitl didnt have 1 bad turnover....he had multiple turnovers. It was an abysmal game by him and he should be held to account. I am not going to diminish the reality of his poor defensive game just because he is an offensive superstar.
That being said he is a team leader and as such I think that the standard should be higher than it would be with the lesser players. It comes with the territory.

Regarding RNH...he absolutely should be held to account for his goal scoring issues. Now just like I did with Brown this isnt one dimensional issue for me. So its a little different perspective than the Brown haters operate by. They never give the player credit for anything he does.

For me when a player is hustling and playing good defence then that should cut him some slack for the offensive drought. All players have scoring droughts...the players with less offensive ability than McDavid and Drai will obviously tend to have longer droughts. Thats to be expected.
If that player is trying to find his game after a serious injury (like Brown) then confidence is even more of a problem and that absolutely effects scoring.
So while they should be held to account I am not going to dismiss the rest of their game and just call them garbage like many posters on here seem inclined to do.

So in terms of my perspective on this I dont think that you can lump me in with the 'rage' posts that you emphasized earlier in this thread.
I see a lot more nuance in this...its not just an all ot nothing approach when it comes to criticism.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Rnh has ZERO ES goals in SIX weeks

Woof

 

[oXo Cube]

Well...I guess I should jump back in.
Your charactorization of Drais game last night is inaccurate.
Draisaitl didnt have 1 bad turnover....he had multiple turnovers. It was an abysmal game by him and he should be held to account. I am not going to diminishe the reality of his poor defensive game justy because he is an offensive superstar.
You can if you like...thats up to you.

Regarding RNH...he absolutely should be held to account for his goal scoring issues. Now just like I did with Brown this isnt one dimensional issue for me. So its a little different perspective than the Brown haters operate by. They never give the player credit for anything he does.

For me when a player is hustling and playing good defence then that should cut him some slack for the offensive drought. All players have scoring droughts...the players with less offensive ability than McDavid and Drai will obviously tend to have longer droughts. Thats to be expected.
If that player is trying to find his game after a serious injury (like Brown) then confidence is even more of a problem and that absolutely effects scoring.
So while they should be held to account I am not going to dismiss the rest of their game and just call them garbage like many posters on here seem inclined to do.

So in terms of my perspective on this I dont think that you can lump me in with the 'rage' posts that you emphasized earlier in this thread.
I see a lot more nuance in this...its not just an all ot nothing approach when it comes to criticism.

I won't elaborate further on the actual topic as I don't think there is much more to present either way, but just on the bolded I don't believe I did this and If I did I definitely didn't intend to.

Cheers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Rnh has ZERO ES goals in SIX weeks

Woof

He isn't scoring on the PP either. 4 on the whole season. Another woof.

This is a guy that put up a 104pt season and 37 goals just last season. The ONLY season in the McDrai arc where Nuge has been completely on board doing his most.

Hope people don't prop up the Defensive play either. Nuge has plenty EV GA and more than twice as many as even Ryan McLeod. Ryan Mcleod sees identical EV TOI than RNH has. Something to think about.

RNH is also on for the most pk goals of any player we have. His GA on pk is in a whole other ballpark higher than anybody else.

he's along for the ride again.

Ryan McLeod has been a better performer this season. Despite lack of production. Nor does Mcleod get burned when he is moved up to Drai line.

 

[McDNicks17]

Same EV pts as Foegele on the season last time I checked. I'd like his defenders to tell me how thats even possible playing the majority of time with the best player in the world who is on a 100assist season heater.

We have here a superstar that will have fed over 100 goals on the season, many of those EV. Nuge sitting there with 17G's my..

I guess Brown has helped out here in creating another bottom expectation here so others aren't embarrassed about such production.

He has as many 5v5 goals as Ceci and as many 5v5 assists as Desharnais since the middle of February.

It's almost impressive.

 

[K1984]

Rnh has ZERO ES goals in SIX weeks

Woof

Love how we are addicted to shuffling the middle 6 and 4th line around because "can't change the top line!" as one member of the top line is doing absolutely nothing to produce a result. That is the McDavid/Hyman show, Nuge is along for the ride and has been playing that way for a while.

Although a lot of the conversation here criticizing Kane is warranted, basically any lineup that would put him in a position to succeed either isn't tried, tried for a short amount of time, or tried and it works, but they only do it for a game. I'm talking about both top 6 and bottom 6 deployment.

RNH is playing like shit on the top line and Kane is playing like shit on the second. Logical next step would be to flip them, but we only did that for a single game (and it looked good). If I remember right RNH wasn't even moved to 2LW, I think he played 3C in that one. Then right back to normal next game.

Kane has a solid game on a very effective 3rd line with McLeod and Perry. What do we do next game? Take Perry off the line and f*** it all up again.

The management of both Kane and RNH this year have made absolutely zero sense since about February, Kane especially. It's like any time he does something to build on they change his line and start over again. It's honestly f***ing stupid at this point.

 

[McDNicks17]

(Goals, assists, 1st assists, 2nd assists, points)

 

[guymez]

I won't elaborate further on the actual topic as I don't think there is much more to present either way, but just on the bolded I don't believe I did this and If I did I definitely didn't intend to.

Cheers.

It seemed like that was the case but if I misinterpreted that then the misunderstanding falls entirely on me.

I cant recall ever hating on a player. I want every player on this team to succeed simply because it helps the team. I just dont understand these posters that hate on Skinner or Brown or any other player and then revels in their on ice failings and then go on to pat themselves on the back.
Its BS IMO.

In terms of Drai I just think that he and McDavid have an obvious elevated measure of importance on this team so when they really stink it up it affects the team more profoundly than a player like RNH.
If Drai didnt score last night that would be fine IMO as long as he covers the bet in his own zone.
Last night he not only didnt score but he was a liability. His lack of awareness (very poor puck management) created mulitple 10 bell chances against and that absolutely contributed to the loss.
I dont think there is any justification to ignore that.
It deserves to be highlighted and thats what I did.

I expect he will be much better next game. Not necessarily score but he just cant be a defensive liability.
Its not a big ask.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Dinosaur in this context doesn't even have anything to do with a person's physical age but I know you love to feel attacked over this so I'll leave it at that.



Every fanbase is better than Vancouver . Even Leafs fans are smarter and I'm not trolling with this comment.

Not sure how else to take a reference to dinosaur Oiler fans from the 90’s other than age but ya just pretend it didn’t. Why don’t you just own it instead of making up contextual excuses for accusing older Oiler fans of being the problem.

 

[McDNicks17]

Not sure how else to take a reference to dinosaur Oiler fans from the 90’s other than age but ya just pretend it didn’t. Why don’t you just own it instead of making up contextual excuses for accusing older Oiler fans of being the problem.

I read it as the "haven't evolved their opinions on how to win a hockey game since the 1990s" part as the issue. Being a dinosaur isn't bad. Lots of you have evolved and see how the game has changed.

I think he's just saying there's lots of dinosaurs around that still highly value those big, physical guys that can fight and that handle the puck like a grenade like it's still the 1990s.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I read it as the "haven't evolved their opinions on how to win a hockey game since the 1990s" part as the issue. Being a dinosaur isn't bad. Lots of you have evolved and see how the game has changed.

I think he's just saying there's lots of dinosaurs around that still highly value those big, physical guys that can fight and that handle the puck like a grenade like it's still the 1990s.

Being an actual dinosaur I get prickly at references to dinosaurs.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Why did McDavid play 20 minutes in a blowout loss?

What's even the point

 

[CupofOil]

Sorry but what? Fuhr, Cujo, Coffey, Pronger etc They don't get better. They don't get more elite than that.

Agreed with the rest of your post but what a way to start it. hehe.

The reality of this team right now is its McD, Drai, Booch, Hyman, Ekholm. Thats the core that are involved.

Meanwhile lil Nugey has 3pts in last 10GP and hardly anybody says anything about it. he has 1 single EV pt in last 10 games. The guy hassn't scored an EV goal in over 6weeks. Kane hasn't scored a goal in months. I like your quote though.

I like Henrique though. An unsung 4 goals since being here outscoring all of Nuge, Kane, etc.

Sorry I meant elite defense as a whole, elite defensively. They've had elite defensemen, of course.

My general point is that the Oilers franchise has always had strength up front and when that's the case, you need a forward group that actually played as a GROUP in waves like the other top teams do and we're not seeing that with the Oilers.

On another note, Stauffer is currently lambasting the Oilers drafting, deservedly so but conveniently he's now doing this on Holland's way out like Stauffer tends to do.

 

[Vagabond]

This team needs Mark Messier to bitch slap everyone into compliance to function properly. The leadership is lacking big time on this team.

 

[Messrules11]

Nice to see some posters here presenting some facts on RNH. For the most part I’ve been saying these things for over a decade.
Somehow he always gets the free pass.
My guess that he re-signed here for less is due to the fact that if he went elsewhere the fanbase would tear him to shreds. Hall and Ebs are a great example.