Post-Game Talk: Rock Bottom, and Wrestlemania isn’t until Saturday

[guymez]

WTF goes thru his head at times like that. Just frightening that he’s supposedly one of our key vet leaders.

Thanks for posting this.
How refreshing to hear an actual realistic breakdown of a play instead of the mindless drivel and endless tire pumping heaped upon us by Jack Micheals and Louie DeBrusk.

The arrival of Ekholm has accomplished a few things IMO.

First it solidified the defence with a legit top pairing Dman....something that was badly needed.
Second...it allowed Bouchard a very stable, very reliable and very smart D partner so that he could grow his game. Bouchard owes Ekholm a debt of gratitude because (before Ekholms arrival) there wasnt a single Dman on the team that would have been able to provide that for Bouchard.
Third...it highlights the reality of Darnell Nurse.

Nurse has all the physical tools but because he cant think the game at a consistently effective level he will never fulfill the potential of his physical ability.

I am not even sure he is tradable but if he is the team has to consider that this off season.
$9.25M of cap space for a player that is expected to be a solid top pairing dman but in reality cant think his way out of an obvious situation is not a recipe for success.
Something has to change.

 

[Duke74]

Then we have the Leo posts

1. Poor Leo never gets good linemates or
2. Get Leo away from 97

Leo doesn't Drive a line. EVER. He has tried every linemate and people will be happy for 2 games or less and then this doesn't work or that doesn't work. The reality is he is a winger who is our best shooter, great passer(mostly) and a good faceoff man. He's a terrible centreman. He needs to play with guys who have some speed and a centerman who will be honest in his own end. That doesn't describe Evander Kane just to be clear. Run him with Mcleod and Foegelle or Mcleod and Henrique. Get them to figure it out. Maybe its not ideal but its what we have.

Define "drive a line." That term gets thrown around all of the time, but what does it even mean? To make Foegele and McLeod look like they belong anywhere near a top-six? He's done that to some extent. Look at their performance with and without Draisaitl. How well would MacKinnon or Matthews drive a line with scraps in place of Rantanen or Marner? Not much better than Draisaitl. Too bad we'll never actually find out.

And, even if his line-driving capability is worse this season, which it arguably is, he's done a much better job of it in previous years. I'm not sure how long you've been following the team, but he won the Hart, Lindsay and Ross with freaking Kailer Yamamoto on his line. Not to mention putting up 50-goal, 100-point seasons with the likes of Rieder, Chiasson, and Kahun on his line.

I get that you hate Draisaitl, and that's your prerogative, but at least you can post factually correct information.

 

[guymez]

Drai has been perfectly fine playing on his own line all season. He's been good even despite a down shooting year and being stuck with whatever castoff forwards the coaches feel like giving him. Why does this fanbase insist on constantly criticizing it's good players while giving anchors a free pass?

We're paying over 10 million dollars for RNH and Kane and they have a combined 0 even strength goals over a quarter season.

Why does this have to pit one player against another?
Cant it just be about highlighting the obvious regardless of the player involved?

Draisaitl stunk in last nights game...he was brutal.
Should we not be allowed to post that reality?
Is Draisaitl a sacred cow that we should never post anything that doesnt glorify him?
I mean is it not realistic to say that RNH and Kane have been underwhelming for an extended period of time and still hightlight Draisiaitls bad game?

I think that you would agree that all of these things can coexist.

BTW...I expect Draisaitl will be infinitely better on Friday.

 

[oXo Cube]

Why does this have to pit one player against another?
Cant it just be about highlighting the obvious regardless of the player involved?

Draisaitl stunk in last nights game...he was brutal.
Should we not be allowed to post that reality?
Is Draisaitl a sacred cow (he is for some posters) that we should never post anything that doesnt glorify him?
I mean is it not realistic to say that RNH and Kane have been underwhelming for an extended period of time and still hightlight Draisiaitls bad game?

I think that you would agree that all of these things can coexist.

BTW...I expect Draisaitl will be infinitely better on Friday.

They can coexist. The issue I take is that they usually don't. Not with any amount of reasonable balance at least.

Draisaitl and Bouchard are the second and third best players on the Oilers and they take more shit from the fanbase than every other player on the team combined.

 

[Duke74]

Drai has been perfectly fine playing on his own line all season. He's been good even despite a down shooting year and being stuck with whatever castoff forwards the coaches feel like giving him. Why does this fanbase insist on constantly criticizing it's good players while giving anchors a free pass?

Too bad I can only like this post once.

 

[guymez]

They can coexist. The issue I take is that they usually don't. Not with any amount of reasonable balance at least.

Draisaitl and Bouchard are the second and third best players on the Oilers and they take more shit from the fanbase than every other player on the team combined.

For some posters any criticism of a player is too much.

I also dont understand the mindset that compares the level of criticism between players that have completely different expectations.
If a player has a bad game then it should be tabled...regardless of who the player is.

Now if you are speaking about 'hating' a player (or overreacting to a loss) then thats another topic entirely.
There are also posters on here that absolutely refuse to acknowledge anything positive about a player regardless of how well they played.
ie Brown and Skinner.

EDIT: I just want to add that one of the reasons why criticism may be more for a player considered to be a leader is likely because more is expected from a player in a leadership role.
I think thats a completely justifiable perspective.

 

[Da McBomb]

This team is absolutely going nowhere if Nurse and Draisaitl continue to play defence like they did last night. For an elite veteran leader, it's frustrating to see how many turnovers and stupid passes Leon continues to make instead of making the safe play. He would be so much better if he cut that out of his game and tried not to force passes like he often does.

 

[russ99]

We all know the primary players in this group don't take defense seriously until we're down in a playoff series.

 

[guymez]

We all know the primary players in this group don't take defense seriously until we're down in a playoff series.

The upcoming playoffs will be very illuminating because IMO (with Knoblauch at the helm) we will know for sure if its a systems issue or a player problem.
At least in terms of the commitment and dedication to a system is concerned.

Last years playoffs IMO for the most part underscored a systems problem. There were key players however that dropped the ball big time (Nurse) but I do think that Wooody was outcoached last year.
I dont expect that to be a problem this year so for me its all on the players now.

 

[Shanahanigans]

WTF goes thru his head at times like that. Just frightening that he’s supposedly one of our key vet leaders.

I love this post because Oilers broadcast and fans tend to overrate our own players all the time. Yamamoto was a 2nd liner here...4th liner/tweener in Seattle. Barrie was a top 4 Dman here, 6/7 in Nashville. Perry has been a 4th liner on every team he's played on for the last 4 years...2nd liner here. Ceci couldn't cut it as a 2nd pair Dman in Ottawa, Toronto, and Pittsburgh...top pair then 2nd pair here. Foegele and Mcleod are 3rd liners, but we insist on playing them in the top 6 due to our lack of depth. Vinny D is a great story, he's a #7 on every contender just due to his lack of offense. Nurse is a 2nd pair Dman who gets paid like a number one. Henrique is not a 2nd line player on a playoff team. There are a LOT of holes on this team that are being masked by 97/29/18/14/2....

 

[guymez]

This team is absolutely going nowhere if Nurse and Draisaitl continue to play defence like they did last night. For an elite veteran leader, it's frustrating to see how many turnovers and stupid passes Leon continues to make instead of making the safe play. He would be so much better if he cut that out of his game and tried not to force passes like he often does.

Absolutely. Thats the key IMO.

There should be a higher standard for a leader on this team (compared to a role player) so of course the voices will be louder when a leader like Draisaitl completely shits the bed.

 

[EnufAlready]

Define "drive a line." That term gets thrown around all of the time, but what does it even mean? To make Foegele and McLeod look like they belong anywhere near a top-six? He's done that to some extent. Look at their performance with and without Draisaitl. How well would MacKinnon or Matthews drive a line with scraps in place of Rantanen or Marner? Not much better than Draisaitl. Too bad we'll never actually find out.

And, even if his line-driving capability is worse this season, which it arguably is, he's done a much better job of it in previous years. I'm not sure how long you've been following the team, but he won the Hart, Lindsay and Ross with freaking Kailer Yamamoto on his line. Not to mention putting up 50-goal, 100-point seasons with the likes of Rieder, Chiasson, and Kahun on his line.

I get that you hate Draisaitl, and that's your prerogative, but at least you can post factually correct information.

I don't hate Leo. Never have. I appreciate and comment on his strong points and point out his flaws.

You keep repeating Leo's stats when describing his play. I love his offensive ability and I comment on it positively. Thats not the part of his game that is ever in question. If you don't see the issues then it is in fact, you, that can't post factually.

With that said....you of all people, with the adjectives that you throw out to describe players on this team, should not use the word hate when describing others.

 

[Dieseloil]

The next GM likely determines whether McDavid ever wins a cup in Edmonton. 2 absolutely terrible GM's in his prime has really screwed him. Anchors left behind in each of their wakes. Nurse needs to go, find some other overpaid player that would be an upgrade and make the deal regardless of the position that he plays. Nurse flat out needs to

Won’t hate on nurse as he’s actually been playing well (other than this game)

my main concern is how the hell do we beat these teams with what we have because they’ll be there come round 3 and 4 (if we ourselves make it that far)

WTF goes thru his head at times like that. Just frightening that he’s supposedly one of our key vet leaders.

IQ of a sidewalk

 

[CupofOil]

Holland has made one last foray into the thinking that old experience will win out. Look at all the players he's acquired in last few years and they are all on the wrong side of 30. Some way past it.

I hate to pick on Derek Ryan but when Holland brought him back for another year I was like WTF? Thats plain Holland laziness and not bothering to find better.

Last night I was watching a shift and McDrai were the forecheckers. They were banging in corners and getting pucks so that RNH could take his popgun out and do nothing with feeds. How do you even feel if you're these two? The only other players on the team fast enough to be good at forecheck are McLeod and Foegele. sigh, sigh. We don't even have grinders so it falls on McDrai to be everything including being superstars they have to be role play muckers in corners and McD has to lead the team in hits. What on Earth....

You remember I sensed in offseason that age and pace would be a problem for this club. Old and slow. Never more evident than last night its come to pass.

This team has to be impeccable at form and positioning to mitigate the lack of pace of so many of its players. That the Oilers even manage to do that 2/3 games is somewhat impressive.

Finally, in hockey you can only go so far with this level of goaltending and without elite D. Dallas have it all.

The Oilers are never going to have an elite D and goaltending. I don't think they ever did in their history really, the Oilers have been built from forward on down with a few exceptions so with this being the case, the Oilers need strength in numbers up front so when they're not getting contributions from support players there's always an incredible burden placed on two players to produce all the time. Their GA is actually pretty decent in the regular season but it seems to crater against playoff teams so they need the offense to outscore it and they just get enough from enough people.

Guys like Ryan and Janmark are such a tiny symptom of a much bigger issue and that is RNH, Kane and McLeod. You can't have a top line winger go scoreless for this long playing with generational talent. RNH pulls his "just sort of there" act way too often in a position where he should be scoring goals, he doesn't use the middle of the ice and he doesn't bear down on gifts from McDavid. Kane hasn't scored a goal since the Lincoln administration, you can't have a top 6/9 winger go absent for that long. McLeod provides nothing when not playing with Draisaitl this season, same with Foegele really.

You can have a 4th line that can't score as long as they're defensively sound and your 3rd line can score. The Oilers have a 3rd AND 4th line that can't score which isn't going to cut it come playoff time. They've kept GA down at a decent rate but you're not going to win many playoff series with them throwing up blanks on the scoresheet most of the time, depth is usually the decider in playoff series and the Oilers come up short in that regard even though they usually have the advantage with the top line.

The old and slow thing has been an issue all season as they've somehow found a way to get older and slower as the season has wore on but that's a whole other wall of text for another post

 

[CycloneSweep]

Is it just me or is Nurse getting worse?

Statistically, he definitely is.

 

[Duke74]

I don't hate Leo. Never have. I appreciate and comment on his strong points and point out his flaws.

You keep repeating Leo's stats when describing his play. I love his offensive ability and I comment on it positively. Thats not the part of his game that is ever in question. If you don't see the issues then it is in fact, you, that can't post factually.

With that said....you of all people, with the adjectives that you throw out to describe players on this team, should not use the word hate when describing others.

I don't think I've ever said anything overly harsh about other players. If I have, it's players like Brown, Desharnais, and Yamamoto, who have offered negligible to net zero contributions to the team. I agree that Draisaitl has some bad habits, including the turnovers and questionable defensive play, but I think those issues are common in most star players. For example, I've read Boston fans complain about Pastrnak's turnovers and Avs fans bitch about Rantanen's effort level. These are all star players but none of them are perfect. I prefer to look at the big picture and see that Draisaitl's contributions far outweigh his drawbacks and liabilities, especially in comparison to the Browns, Desharnaises and Yamamotos of the world.

 

[guymez]

I don't think I've ever said anything overly harsh about other players. If I have, it's players like Brown, Desharnais, and Yamamoto, who have offered negligible to net zero contributions to the team. I agree that Draisaitl has some bad habits, including the turnovers and questionable defensive play, but I think those issues are common in most star players. For example, I've read Boston fans complain about Pastrnak's turnovers and Avs fans bitch about Rantanen's effort level. These are all star players but none of them are perfect. I prefer to look at the big picture and see that Draisaitl's contributions far outweigh his drawbacks and liabilities, especially in comparison to the Browns, Desharnaises and Yamamotos of the world.

Do you think that the highest paid players on the team should be held to a higher standard?

 

[CycloneSweep]

People thinking Kane should be in the Top 6 to somehow stimulate him before playoffs??? f*** that...this guy makes NO line better. Kills every line he is on. Doesn't work hard enough most nights. Shows his capable speed on two occasions...1. Opportunity to score or 2. Gets mad once in a blue moon and throws a late hit on a forecheck. Terrible passer but one of a few Oilers who can score from a distance greater than 6 feet.

Then we have the Leo posts

1. Poor Leo never gets good linemates or
2. Get Leo away from 97

Leo doesn't Drive a line. EVER. He has tried every linemate and people will be happy for 2 games or less and then this doesn't work or that doesn't work. The reality is he is a winger who is our best shooter, great passer(mostly) and a good faceoff man. He's a terrible centreman. He needs to play with guys who have some speed and a centerman who will be honest in his own end. That doesn't describe Evander Kane just to be clear. Run him with Mcleod and Foegelle or Mcleod and Henrique. Get them to figure it out. Maybe its not ideal but its what we have.

What?
Leon HAS to drive his line with the scraps.
McDavid has Hyman and Nuge, our 3rd and 4th best players. Draisaitl, unless he is playing with McDavid is playing with 3rd liners, 4th liners and guys who are playing like 4th liners (Kane).
The only teams in the league that McLeod and Foegele are top 6 guys, are lotto teams.

"Not ideal" We are an apparent contender that cant actually run 2 top 6 lines. Henrique might work there but so far he has been...okay. But only against bad teams.

Its unfair to Draisaitl that he just gets saddled with whatever. He should get one of Nuge/Hyman and let McDavid drag one of the 3rd liners. No reason for Drai to just get saddled with leftovers.

 

[oXo Cube]

Leon away from Connor is +7 5 on 5 this season. Connor away from Leon is +12. Together they are +17. With neither on the ice, the Oilers are -6. The Oilers this year are +30 5 on 5 when Evan Bouchard is on the ice and +/- 0 without him.

These 3 players flat out carry this team. That doesn't make any of them above criticism but surely there shouldn't be entire threads full of rage posts whenever one makes a mistake in a game? It gets to be so exhausting.

 

[guymez]

What?
Leon HAS to drive his line with the scraps.
McDavid has Hyman and Nuge, our 3rd and 4th best players. Draisaitl, unless he is playing with McDavid is playing with 3rd liners, 4th liners and guys who are playing like 4th liners (Kane).
The only teams in the league that McLeod and Foegele are top 6 guys, are lotto teams.

"Not ideal" We are an apparent contender that cant actually run 2 top 6 lines. Henrique might work there but so far he has been...okay. But only against bad teams.

Its unfair to Draisaitl that he just gets saddled with whatever. He should get one of Nuge/Hyman and let McDavid drag one of the 3rd liners. No reason for Drai to just get saddled with leftovers.

While its obvious that Leon has had lesser wingers compared to Connor...Leons wingers had no bearing on his play in last nights game. Thats all on him.

Leon away from Connor is +7 5 on 5 this season. Connor away from Leon is +12. Together they are +17. With neither on the ice, the Oilers are -6. The Oilers this year are +30 5 on 5 when Evan Bouchard is on the ice and +/- 0 without him.

These 3 players flat out carry this team. That doesn't make any of them above criticism but surely there shouldn't be entire threads full of rage posts whenever one makes a mistake in a game? It gets to be so exhausting.

What rage posts are you referring to?

 

[yukoner88]

IQ of a sidewalk

Where I come from, sidewalks are made of wood

 

[EnufAlready]

What?
Leon HAS to drive his line with the scraps.
McDavid has Hyman and Nuge, our 3rd and 4th best players. Draisaitl, unless he is playing with McDavid is playing with 3rd liners, 4th liners and guys who are playing like 4th liners (Kane).
The only teams in the league that McLeod and Foegele are top 6 guys, are lotto teams.

"Not ideal" We are an apparent contender that cant actually run 2 top 6 lines. Henrique might work there but so far he has been...okay. But only against bad teams.

Its unfair to Draisaitl that he just gets saddled with whatever. He should get one of Nuge/Hyman and let McDavid drag one of the 3rd liners. No reason for Drai to just get saddled with leftovers.

Unfair to Draisaitl???

Saddled with leftovers???

It's part of being on a team. He gets lots of shifts with the best players. PP, after PK, end of periods, Late in games, etc...

Jeez these guys have been called dogshit, garbage and leftovers, scraps. That's probably what some would be calling Hyman if he wasn't with 97.

Honestly...Knob should move Hopkins to center Leo. Give McDavid one of Henrique, Foegele or Mcleod... I think it would make the top line better.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The gist of it is that this fanbase is full of dinosaurs who haven't evolved their opinions on how to win a hockey game since the 1990s.

This includes the vast majority of local sports media peronalities.

Ah I see. The older fans are the problem with the Oilers. Gotcha.

I suppose anyone over 50 should just be shuffled off to some enviro friendly gas chamber?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The gist of it is that this fanbase is full of dinosaurs who haven't evolved their opinions on how to win a hockey game since the 1990s.

This includes the vast majority of local sports media peronalities.

Interesting. I find it to be the younger crowd that think VD is better than he is.

Anyways I would rather have a bunch of loyal dinosaur fans than bandwagoners like the Canucks.

 

[Duke74]

What rage posts are you referring to?

I think he's referring to some of the terrible things that people say in the GDT. It's one thing to say a player is playing terribly (as Draisaitl did last evening), and this is totally fair. My issue is when a poster personally insults a player. GDTs are a place where a lot of "fans" cross the line into the latter territory. Calling Nurse brain dead, Skinner an idiot, etc. is an example of what makes these threads almost unreadable. And that's not even counting the adds on mobile HF.

Do you think that the highest paid players on the team should be held to a higher standard?

That's fair, but even that being said, Draisaitl's contributions far outweigh his blunders (notwithstanding last night). He's not immune from criticism but I think the hate is way out of proportion to what he brings to the table in terms of his net contributions.